filbertway Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 Just now, foxfanazer said: I mean it's just not comparable in any way and didn't need to be brought up Tell you what though, it's an excellent deflection and people will be arguing about racism instead now. I don't think Antonio has intended it but he's probably just taken a good deal of focus away from the original issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Shane Posted 10 February 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 10 February 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Super_horns said: Antonio comparing it to racism. This is a ridiculous argument. Comparing kicking your cat to racism is nothing more than a False equivalence. 'False equivalence is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone incorrectly asserts that two or more things are equivalent, simply because they share some characteristics, despite the fact that there are notable differences between them and exaggerate similarities and ignore important differences.' What's more disturbing is Michael Antonio actually thinks he's made a good point here and people will lap it up! Edited 10 February 2022 by Shane 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 9 minutes ago, foxfanazer said: I mean it's just not comparable in any way and didn't need to be brought up Exactly that, didn't need to be brought up and frankly two very different issues. Brilliant distraction as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillippaT Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 1 minute ago, Shane said: This is a ridiculous argument. Comparing kicking your cat to racism is nothing more than a False equivalence. 'False equivalence is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone incorrectly asserts that two or more things are equivalent, simply because they share some characteristics, despite the fact that there are notable differences between them and exaggerate similarities and ignore important differences.' What's more disturbing is Michael Antonio actually thinks he's made a good point here and people will lap it up! Maybe he's a furry? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unabomber Posted 10 February 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 10 February 2022 12 minutes ago, foxfanazer said: I mean it's just not comparable in any way and didn't need to be brought up Yeah using racism as a distraction tactic just makes the whole situation even worse. He might as well say yeah he kicked a cat but people murder others. One bad thing isn’t made less important just because you mention another bad thing. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanya Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 (edited) I don't agree with Antonio here. Or not completely. Of course racism is worse. Anyone guilty of racism should have an extended spell on the sidelines and be fined the maximum. But animal cruelty is also awful. These two things can exist. It's insulting to imply we care more about animal welfare than racism. Both are very very bad but racism is worse. The fight against it is why players take the knee. It's why penalties for racism should be higher than they've been in the past. But let's not ignore the fact Zouma hurt his own pet while filming it in front of his children. He deserves the social ostracism, the big fine and a game or two on the sidelines. I do agree with Antonio that the guy doesn't deserve to be sacked over this. A massive fine, some charity work and losing his sponsors seems appropriate. B Edited 10 February 2022 by Tanya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoChiMinhFOX Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 4 minutes ago, Tanya said: Anotino is an ignorant idiot. Of course racism is worse. Anyone guilty of racism should have an extended spell on the sidelines and be fined the maximum. But animal cruelty is also awful. These two things can exist. It's insulting to imply we care more about animal welfare than racism. Both are very very bad but racism is worse. The fight against it is why players take the knee. It's why penalties for racism should be higher than they've been in the past. But let's not ignore the fact Zouma hurt his own pet while filming it in front of his children. He deserves the social ostracism, the big fine and a game or two on the sidelines. Don't think you should really compare them both. Both equally appalling for different reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanya Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 Just now, HoChiMinhFOX said: Don't think you should really compare them both. Both equally appalling for different reasons. I agree. I don't understand why Antonio is doing this. Both are bad? Can't we all agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejdeej Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 What a strange argument from Antonio. Might as well compare animal abuse to famine in Africa while you're at it mate. Or the rise in energy costs. "Yeah I don't agree with what Kurt did, but is it any worse than Freddos costing 25p now when they used to be 10p? See ya later" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 Antonio has a point in regard to how racism gets punished. People who have been proven to be racist have got lesser punishments. From that clip above, I don't see the outrage at his comments unless I've missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hales Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 (edited) It's a completely different argument. Why is he bringing race into the argument? I really don't understand. Not everything has to do with race. Edited 10 February 2022 by Hales 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoChiMinhFOX Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 3 minutes ago, StanSP said: Antonio has a point in regard to how racism gets punished. People who have been proven to be racist have got lesser punishments. From that clip above, I don't see the outrage at his comments unless I've missed something. His point makes no sense when you consider players that have done arguably a lot worse are still playing football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 30 minutes ago, HoChiMinhFOX said: His point makes no sense when you consider players that have done arguably a lot worse are still playing football. That's precisely his point. People clamouring for Zouma to be sacked yet people who have done worse still play. 35 minutes ago, Hales said: It's a completely different argument. Why is he bringing race into the argument? I relaly don't understand. Not everything has to do with race. It is a different argument. He's using racism as a comparative point. He's not saying this incident has to do with race. He's posing the question about racism in general - those found to be guilty of racism were still able to play. He's just comparing crimes. He didn't mention Zouma's race, his own race or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 The commentary 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 44 minutes ago, StanSP said: Antonio has a point in regard to how racism gets punished. People who have been proven to be racist have got lesser punishments. From that clip above, I don't see the outrage at his comments unless I've missed something. I don’t understand why some don’t understand his point he not speaking about what zouma did as being right/wrong he’s speaking about the possible punishment - people asking for him to be kicked out of the game in some instances I get it completely- and based on what he said, an eight game ban plus his fine (and likely criminal prosecution) will be sufficient (unless there is more that we don’t know about which comes to light) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 8 minutes ago, StanSP said: The commentary Sorry Stan - still too soon after what we went through ….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtmcfly Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 6 minutes ago, StanSP said: That's precisely his point. People clamouring for Zouma to be sacked yet people who have done worse still play. It is a different argument. He's using racism as a comparative point. He's not saying this incident has to do with race. He's posing the question about racism in general - those found to be guilty of racism were still able to play. He's just comparing crimes. He didn't mention Zouma's race, his own race or anything like that. This is a false equivalence. It treats 'people clamouring' for something to happen as the same thing as it actually happening (Zouma is still playing), and assumes that no-one was clamouring for people who have done worse to be sacked 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Fresh Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 16 minutes ago, StanSP said: The commentary If you are going to film it at least make a decent go of actually celebrating it, how tame was that 😂. Although he'd of looked a bigger idiot when it was ruled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueBrett Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 1 hour ago, Tanya said: I don't agree with Antonio here. Or not completely. Of course racism is worse. Anyone guilty of racism should have an extended spell on the sidelines and be fined the maximum. But animal cruelty is also awful. These two things can exist. It's insulting to imply we care more about animal welfare than racism. Both are very very bad but racism is worse. The fight against it is why players take the knee. It's why penalties for racism should be higher than they've been in the past. But let's not ignore the fact Zouma hurt his own pet while filming it in front of his children. He deserves the social ostracism, the big fine and a game or two on the sidelines. I do agree with Antonio that the guy doesn't deserve to be sacked over this. A massive fine, some charity work and losing his sponsors seems appropriate. B Depends in what form. IMO physically abusing an animal is way worse than verbally abusing a human. Obviously racially motivated violence would be worse but as others have said what are we even talking about at this point. Unaware of any player who has been found guilty of racially motivated violence so i guess the answer to Michail's question is Yes, it is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hales Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 22 minutes ago, StanSP said: That's precisely his point. People clamouring for Zouma to be sacked yet people who have done worse still play. It is a different argument. He's using racism as a comparative point. He's not saying this incident has to do with race. He's posing the question about racism in general - those found to be guilty of racism were still able to play. He's just comparing crimes. He didn't mention Zouma's race, his own race or anything like that. I understand completely he is using it as a comparative point but it is an entirely different argument. It's suggesting people are not as upset by the punishments for racism. I'm completely aghast at some of the things I read online posted to players and racism that people experience but it's now going to create a narrative and actually may imply people are behaving with negativity towards Zouma because of his race. I have seen this happen already on social media. The trouble is I and many others are becoming disillusioned with football as money does come before morals, ethics and the law in many instances. Race being one but animal abuse another. I just don't think it is a helpful comparative argument he has made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCCHRIS Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 Anti-racist football vs sentimental over animals Britain is the kind of battle I live for. Just waiting for the meltdown when someone suggests Zoumas punishment is racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtmcfly Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bovril said: Anti-racist football vs sentimental over animals Britain is the kind of battle I live for. Just waiting for the meltdown when someone suggests Zoumas punishment is racist Anotonio's comment is logically fallacious, but it's not 'playing the race card'. Doesn't mean there's no-one playing it... Edited 10 February 2022 by turtmcfly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxes_rule1978 Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 Just now, turtmcfly said: Anotonio's comment is logically fallacious, but it's not 'playing the race card'. Doesn't mean no-on is playing it... Oh please go away what a load of rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samilktray Posted 10 February 2022 Share Posted 10 February 2022 People eat meat knowing full well the way those animals are treated so perhaps some of this energy needs to be channelled into further educating ourselves on what we eat, aswell as thick weirdos booting their pets 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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