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Sly

Ryan Bertrand

By Sly, in Transfer Talk

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Babylon

Babylon

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2 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

What’s this seeming obsession you have with age? lol

Yeah I'm so obsessed with age :rolleyes:

 

You said Fuchs didn't offer much the last few years, which is true, but think back to what he offered the two years before that. He was absolutely fine as a squad player. 

 

2 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

Again, I hope that I am proven wrong if we do go on and sign him, but I just think his form has fallen off and he’s not as good as some you seem to think. 

Who on here is saying he's great, his place in the squad is as a squad players to cover and allow Justin to get fit and still provide Thomas with game time and a pathway into the team. He doesn't need to be amazing, he needs to just do a solid job for while. 

 

2 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

As good as Fuchs actually remained, when it came down to crunch time, it was obvious that Rodgers didn’t have faith in him to do the job.

Because Fuchs is much older, as already pointed out. If it was 31 year old Fuchs, he'd have been paying. 

 

2 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

Accordingly, simply replacing Fuchs isn’t good enough (unless we are satisfied with where we presently are, with no ambitions to push further ahead). We have to upgrade the quality of the squad and I just don’t think Bertrand does that.  That doesn’t necessarily have anything to with age (Evans is older) nor with “throwing” money (Justin cost us 6 million quid).

If there was an almost guaranteed amazing £6m left back available who is definitely going to improve us then we'd probably buy one. But for £6m you are either going to get someone like Bertrand who is getting older, or a younger totally unproven player, like Justin. Which is utterly pointless when you already have two young full backs and you have the chance of signing an older player for Free. 

 

As for upgrading the squad, James Justin was probably close to winning player of the season prior to his injury, so unless you are Manchester City and can afford to spend big money on proven players willy nilly, just to keep upgrading, then there are other positions crying out for investment compared to full back. So you sort them out first and revisit full back in a seasons time if you have to. 

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Babylon

Babylon

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On 03/06/2021 at 13:33, BenTheFox said:

Beyond me that anyone would turn their nose up at an experienced premier league quality full-back on a free transfer when we'll be competing on four fronts. 

Basically, it's people who think squad building is the same as it is on FIFA. 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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25 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Yeah I'm so obsessed with age :rolleyes:

 

You said Fuchs didn't offer much the last few years, which is true, but think back to what he offered the two years before that. He was absolutely fine as a squad player. 

 

Who on here is saying he's great, his place in the squad is as a squad players to cover and allow Justin to get fit and still provide Thomas with game time and a pathway into the team. He doesn't need to be amazing, he needs to just do a solid job for while. 

 

Because Fuchs is much older, as already pointed out. If it was 31 year old Fuchs, he'd have been paying. 

 

If there was an almost guaranteed amazing £6m left back available who is definitely going to improve us then we'd probably buy one. But for £6m you are either going to get someone like Bertrand who is getting older, or a younger totally unproven player, like Justin. Which is utterly pointless when you already have two young full backs and you have the chance of signing an older player for Free. 

 

As for upgrading the squad, James Justin was probably close to winning player of the season prior to his injury, so unless you are Manchester City and can afford to spend big money on proven players willy nilly, just to keep upgrading, then there are other positions crying out for investment compared to full back. So you sort them out first and revisit full back in a seasons time if you have to. 

Fuchs offered more under Rodgers last season than he did under Puel. Fuchs was instrumental in some of the wins we got when Ndidi and Soyuncu were injured early on. He was the perfect experienced back up player, was on his game when we needed him and then remained supportive and a huge part of the background during the rest of the season. It's difficult to replace that like for like and straight away.

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Babylon

Babylon

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2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Fuchs offered more under Rodgers last season than he did under Puel. Fuchs was instrumental in some of the wins we got when Ndidi and Soyuncu were injured early on. He was the perfect experienced back up player, was on his game when we needed him and then remained supportive and a huge part of the background during the rest of the season. It's difficult to replace that like for like and straight away.

But a 31 year old Fuchs would have played more, under Puel he was competing with Chilwell who when on his game is a very good player and he was fit. 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

But a 31 year old Fuchs would have played more, under Puel he was competing with Chilwell who when on his game is a very good player and he was fit. 

The point I was trying to make was that we as fans get very irate about certain players when they reach a certain age of being first choice and not good enough anymore. We saw it with Fuchs and Morgan. Thankfully we have now moved on as a club and these players at those stages of their career will become back up players and it suits their game better.

 

Morgan and Fuchs under Rodgers have had some key games for us when we needed them and Bertrand is hopefully in that same bracket. Will come in and support Justin and Thomas but I'd be amazed if he's first choice. If he is then he'll have to be smashing it.

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An Sionnach

An Sionnach

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In crunch matches  a back line of Pereira, Bertrand, Evans and Tarkowski might be just what we need. Every time we bring up the premiership winners , people talk about Vardy, Kante and Mahrez but the experience and determination of Simpson, Huth ,Morgan and Fuchs meant so few defeats. Its the true grit of this type of player that we need to counterbalance the skill an dynamism of our mainly young squad.

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Babylon

Babylon

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1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

The point I was trying to make was that we as fans get very irate about certain players when they reach a certain age of being first choice and not good enough anymore. We saw it with Fuchs and Morgan. Thankfully we have now moved on as a club and these players at those stages of their career will become back up players and it suits their game better.

 

Morgan and Fuchs under Rodgers have had some key games for us when we needed them and Bertrand is hopefully in that same bracket. Will come in and support Justin and Thomas but I'd be amazed if he's first choice. If he is then he'll have to be smashing it.

I'm not saying he didn't offer anything, the point was at 31 he offered more than as a 34 year old. He didn't get better with age or anything. 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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41 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I'm not saying he didn't offer anything, the point was at 31 he offered more than as a 34 year old. He didn't get better with age or anything. 

True, but there's possibly something in being able to perform in a handful of games when called upon aged 34 compared to being good enough to play a lot of games week in, week out and that's why it's a no brainer to bring in a player like Bertrand.

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NaijaFox

NaijaFox

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23 hours ago, Babylon said:

Yeah I'm so obsessed with age :rolleyes:

 

You said Fuchs didn't offer much the last few years, which is true, but think back to what he offered the two years before that. He was absolutely fine as a squad player. 

 

Who on here is saying he's great, his place in the squad is as a squad players to cover and allow Justin to get fit and still provide Thomas with game time and a pathway into the team. He doesn't need to be amazing, he needs to just do a solid job for while. 

 

Because Fuchs is much older, as already pointed out. If it was 31 year old Fuchs, he'd have been paying. 

 

If there was an almost guaranteed amazing £6m left back available who is definitely going to improve us then we'd probably buy one. But for £6m you are either going to get someone like Bertrand who is getting older, or a younger totally unproven player, like Justin. Which is utterly pointless when you already have two young full backs and you have the chance of signing an older player for Free. 

 

As for upgrading the squad, James Justin was probably close to winning player of the season prior to his injury, so unless you are Manchester City and can afford to spend big money on proven players willy nilly, just to keep upgrading, then there are other positions crying out for investment compared to full back. So you sort them out first and revisit full back in a seasons time if you have to. 

Let's just agree to disagree...lol

 

Albeit you still miss my point about age. Younger players can fall off form, just as olders players. We all witnessed young players who come onto the scene with amazing talent and productivity only to fall off after a couple of seasons (someone like Berahino readily comes to mind). Accordingly, my valuation of the current version of Bertrand has nothing to do with his age (albeit it may be a contributing factor to the considerable slide in his form this past season). 

 

Ultimately, it all boils down to personal opinions (like virtually all else on FT). Some think Bertrand is just what we need, and others happen to think he's not. Only the passage of time will validate one of those positions. But, in any case, if he ends up at the KP, I would SUPPORT him and wish him the best.

 

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NaijaFox

NaijaFox

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On 06/06/2021 at 03:16, Babylon said:

If there was an almost guaranteed amazing £6m left back available who is definitely going to improve us then we'd probably buy one. But for £6m you are either going to get someone like Bertrand who is getting older, or a younger totally unproven player, like Justin. Which is utterly pointless when you already have two young full backs and you have the chance of signing an older player for Free. 

 

As for upgrading the squad, James Justin was probably close to winning player of the season prior to his injury, so unless you are Manchester City and can afford to spend big money on proven players willy nilly, just to keep upgrading, then there are other positions crying out for investment compared to full back. So you sort them out first and revisit full back in a seasons time if you have to. 

Btw, I said on a different thread a few weeks ago that I would rather retain Thomas and not spend money on a new LB (Gosens, Tagliafico, Bertrand, et al.), and instead channel the money (even on a free transfer, Bertrand's salary would not be insignificant) towards areas of more pressing needs. It's not ideal, but I personally can live with Castagne covering for Thomas in case of injury or other unavailability until the return of Justin. Our options, if we choose to forego Bertrand, are NOT solely limited to splashing money or signing an untested young player.   

  

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UHDrive

UHDrive

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22 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

In crunch matches  a back line of Pereira, Bertrand, Evans and Tarkowski might be just what we need. Every time we bring up the premiership winners , people talk about Vardy, Kante and Mahrez but the experience and determination of Simpson, Huth ,Morgan and Fuchs meant so few defeats. Its the true grit of this type of player that we need to counterbalance the skill an dynamism of our mainly young squad.

I'd swap Pereira for Castagna on the right. Pereira hasnt been himself yet and has been shaky at the back and losing the ball up top since coming back from injury. Castagana's on his game right now.

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OhYesNdidi

OhYesNdidi

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1 hour ago, UHDrive said:

I'd swap Pereira for Castagna on the right. Pereira hasnt been himself yet and has been shaky at the back and losing the ball up top since coming back from injury. Castagana's on his game right now.

Neither are as effective on the left

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escape2victory

escape2victory

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Tricky one this……decent upgrade on Fuchs as his legs have gone, but if you compare 2019/20 season we had vintage Ricardo 2019 and Chilwell as our full backs, this coming season we possibly start with Castagne and Bertrand….that’s quite a downgrade in 2 years

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GlennyFox55

GlennyFox55

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52 minutes ago, escape2victory said:

Tricky one this……decent upgrade on Fuchs as his legs have gone, but if you compare 2019/20 season we had vintage Ricardo 2019 and Chilwell as our full backs, this coming season we possibly start with Castagne and Bertrand….that’s quite a downgrade in 2 years

Think it’s premature to write Ricky off yet, think he’ll look more like his old self after a full pre-season.

 

Thomas will also benefit from a proper pre-season, where I’d imagine they’ll look to bulk him out a bit. 

 

Factoring in the above, Justin to return and the fact that funds are required elsewhere in the squad, i think this is an ideal signing for us assuming we strengthen elsewhere.

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fox_favourite

fox_favourite

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1 hour ago, wardyfox86 said:

Anybody would think the players and staff have gone on a well deserved break after a tough couple of years. How dare they!? 

How dare they take time to spend it with their families etc…they should all be laying at least one seed of the new pitch?!!!

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