Brendan - Attacking Manager

[deanolegend1989]

6 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I've defended Rodgers a lot this season as more often than not he does a good job here. I don't buy the fact this squad is top 4 under normal circumstances and that's why I then view Ridgers as a good coach and manager. 

 

There's weaknesses in this team even at full strength and as a squad we are nowhere near as strong as the big 6. Rodgers has a nucleus of a very very good team though and he's got methods and ability to get the best out of them which is where some clubs aren't as sharp as we are.

 

I'm annoyed we have fallen short for a 2nd season running, we didn't learn our lesson in the transfer windows and whether it's bad luck or not we have essentially played the final 3rd of the season without Justin, Barnes, Maddison and Praet. The latter two have been available but were neither deployed/deployed correctly or in any sort of form to have an impact. Maddison might as well have not played if you measure his output since he came back.

 

We just don't have thr players to play 4-2-3-1 without Barnes. Our choice of wingers is absolutely horrendous, but 3-4-1-2 seemingly stunted the performances of Maddison and Vardy too. They seem to work better as Maddison being given the licence to support Vardy off the shoulder, he drops too deep in a 3-4-1-2 for some reason. Our problem was though that Iheanacho hasn't yet suited 4-2-3-1 and in 3-4-1-2 he simply carried this team to not only the FA Cup final but also maintained our top 5 position, we could easily have ended up mid table without his goals. It's assumed that in another system that others would have stepped up, but who? Maddison has been way off it, Vardy and Perez too. In fact Perez is supposedly best as a support striker/attacking midfielder and yet his stats since we played this formation from February onwards is simply horrible. He's crap and needs getting rid of, I'm done with him.

 

Could we have still play 4-2-3-1 without Barnes and whilst Maddison, Praet and Perez were injured? Maybe we could in recent weeks, or at least tried it but we seemed to set on 3-4-1-2 because we managed to ride that crisis after Arsenal by grinding out that win at Brighton and then hammering Sheffield Utd. It was all about Iheanacho and then the Man Utd game in the quarter final was electric and we all thought we'd locked on to a system that would see us through.

 

After the international break it became clear that wasn't necessarily going to be the case, I wish he had at least tried 4-2-3-1 as that's going to big me forever, it probably wouldn't have made much difference as we'd have had to drop one of Vardy or Iheanacho and played wingers consisting of Albrighton on one side and Ricardo or Perez on the other, it's vulgar when you think about it. But defensively as a back 5 we weren't even that solid so we can't hide behind that excuse that at least what we lost going forward in a back 5 we made up for it in defence because we didn't, we got done by 3 or more goals away at West Ham and home to Newcastle and Spurs, its grim.

 

Overall I'm proud of them of course this season as we had a relentless schedule with horrible injuries and we won the FA Cup which was breathtaking and means way more to me than top 4 but regardless of the league position we ended up in, the position was reached by dropping down the pecking order at the end for a 2nd season running and it does hurt. I worry we won't get this opportunity again and if we get 60-66 points next season it could only be enough for 6th - 7th and will be viewed as a poor season when it isn't given who we are up against but it's the manner in which things occur.

 

Still fully behind Rodgers, be careful what we wish for as we could easily have a manager who can't get what Rodgers gets out of this squad and we'd be back scrabbling about for 9th again or worse.

 

 

That’s a decent post on the whole and I agree completely with the bit I put in italic.

I also think the 5 atb didn’t make us better, it made us weaker defensively!

The perfect comparison as mentioned is Klopp at Pool. He tried the same and they failed and threw it away, but then it clicked ‘**** it deal with the weak defence, just make sure Fabinho is back in the middle and control the game better and we’ll take a risk that our 2 weak CBs will do ok’ it changed instantly and I remember saying after they beat Wolves then Arsenal that they are the main threat despite being a mile off at that point, they were in a false position due to poor management.
Poor management from Klopp and Lampard gave Rodgers a gift to secure CL but poor management from Rodgers didn’t take advantage, that’s the reality.

As you say, the options without Barnes are awful but I throw the 4312 formation that I believe would of been the best.

Kasper

Castange(in his best position)

2 CBs rotated with Evans/Fofana/Soyuncu - would of been more fit when they get rested.

Thomas

Praet Ndidi Tielemens

        Madders

    Vardy Nacho

 

Gets both strikers in the team, puts madders in the hole where he’s effective, he’s hopeless on the wing or as a wide man in a front 3 which anyone can see whose been watching us for years but Brendan still does that.

Then a clear pattern of us getting over worked in the middle with Wilf and Youri but refuses to add Praet(no idea why) but decides to stick Mendy on in a 2 and drop Wilf back!! It was just farcical..there’s no excuses, it was awful management.

 

Last things though the bit in bold is absolute rubbish imo. There is not a chance you really believe that I think. Even the biast big 6 loving media say things like ‘Leicester are miles ahead of Arsenal and Spurs’ nearly to the point the the general consensus of all fans are with that now, yet a hugely passionate Leicester fan who I know is watching us all season says that comment? It’s just not true and if you believe we are to quote ‘weaker as a squad than Arsenal and Spurs’ then I’m absolutely stunned.
That is ridiculous and not even close to be true and just feels like a comment to help you feel better about the fact we bottled it to give comfort to the failure to act like ‘well we were competing against these 2 better squads’ 🤣🤦‍♂️. Come on Ric, them 2 arnt even close.

 

To the bit written I highlighted in underlined: there are plenty of managers who could of gotten us top 4 from that position imo. I’m not really bothered if Rodgers stays or not as long as our best players do.

If we lose our top boys we’ll drop to mid table at best REGARDLESS of if Brendan stays or not.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

That’s a decent post on the whole and I agree completely with the bit I put in italic.

I also think the 5 atb didn’t make us better, it made us weaker defensively!

The perfect comparison as mentioned is Klopp at Pool. He tried the same and they failed and threw it away, but then it clicked ‘**** it deal with the weak defence, just make sure Fabinho is back in the middle and control the game better and we’ll take a risk that our 2 weak CBs will do ok’ it changed instantly and I remember saying after they beat Wolves then Arsenal that they are the main threat despite being a mile off at that point, they were in a false position due to poor management.
Poor management from Klopp and Lampard gave Rodgers a gift to secure CL but poor management from Rodgers didn’t take advantage, that’s the reality.

As you say, the options without Barnes are awful but I throw the 4312 formation that I believe would of been the best.

Kasper

Castange(in his best position)

2 CBs rotated with Evans/Fofana/Soyuncu - would of been more fit when they get rested.

Thomas

Praet Ndidi Tielemens

        Madders

    Vardy Nacho

 

Gets both strikers in the team, puts madders in the hole where he’s effective, he’s hopeless on the wing or as a wide man in a front 3 which anyone can see whose been watching us for years but Brendan still does that.

Then a clear pattern of us getting over worked in the middle with Wilf and Youri but refuses to add Praet(no idea why) but decides to stick Mendy on in a 2 and drop Wilf back!! It was just farcical..there’s no excuses, it was awful management.

 

Last things though the bit in bold is absolute rubbish imo. There is not a chance you really believe that I think. Even the biast big 6 loving media say things like ‘Leicester are miles ahead of Arsenal and Spurs’ nearly to the point the the general consensus of all fans are with that now, yet a hugely passionate Leicester fan who I know is watching us all season says that comment? It’s just not true and if you believe we are to quote ‘weaker as a squad than Arsenal and Spurs’ then I’m absolutely stunned.
That is ridiculous and not even close to be true and just feels like a comment to help you feel better about the fact we bottled it to give comfort to the failure to act like ‘well we were competing against these 2 better squads’ 🤣🤦‍♂️. Come on Ric, them 2 arnt even close.

 

To the bit written I highlighted in underlined: there are plenty of managers who could of gotten us top 4 from that position imo. I’m not really bothered if Rodgers stays or not as long as our best players do.

If we lose our top boys we’ll drop to mid table at best REGARDLESS of if Brendan stays or not.

You may have misinterpreted the bit about the squad not being as strong as the big 6, what I mean about that is that overall even Spurs and Arsenal have a better 25 man squad but we have a considerable better 14-15 players. The issue is in both seasons now we've lost a fair few of those core players and our squad players are so bang average that it's been hard to maintain our flowing football, the last 3 months have been a slog and mistakes have definitely been made but even so, we would have got top 4 with Barnes or Maddison not getting injured. I'm not sure we would have the season before when we lost Maddison and Chilwell down the stretch, I don't think that made much difference as both had been dog shit for the 2nd half of the season anyway.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You may have misinterpreted the bit about the squad not being as strong as the big 6, what I mean about that is that overall even Spurs and Arsenal have a better 25 man squad but we have a considerable better 14-15 players. The issue is in both seasons now we've lost a fair few of those core players and our squad players are so bang average that it's been hard to maintain our flowing football, the last 3 months have been a slog and mistakes have definitely been made but even so, we would have got top 4 with Barnes or Maddison not getting injured. I'm not sure we would have the season before when we lost Maddison and Chilwell down the stretch, I don't think that made much difference as both had been dog shit for the 2nd half of the season anyway.

The Spurs game the other day was basically the perfect demonstration of this. If we're comparing first choice starting elevens I think we're clear of them but look at the benches. In terms of attacking subs they could bring on Bale, Lucas, Lamela and Carlos Vinicius. We had Perez. Not all of those Spurs subs mentioned are particularly outstanding players or even necessarily start for us but they're a massive improvement over the squad options we have. Exactly the same with Arsenal - their last game against Brighton they had Saka, Lacazette, Martinelli, Ceballos on the bench.

[deanolegend1989]

23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You may have misinterpreted the bit about the squad not being as strong as the big 6, what I mean about that is that overall even Spurs and Arsenal have a better 25 man squad but we have a considerable better 14-15 players. The issue is in both seasons now we've lost a fair few of those core players and our squad players are so bang average that it's been hard to maintain our flowing football, the last 3 months have been a slog and mistakes have definitely been made but even so, we would have got top 4 with Barnes or Maddison not getting injured. I'm not sure we would have the season before when we lost Maddison and Chilwell down the stretch, I don't think that made much difference as both had been dog shit for the 2nd half of the season anyway.

I know what you meant but I disagree that Arsenals and Spurs back up players are better than ours. There first 14/15 as you say are miles behind us and the back up behind that are crap in both of theirs as well as ours so overall our squad is much stronger still.

Remember we didn’t have Justin and Barnes for a good chunk of the end and Soyuncu and Ndidi for a good chunk of the first half, yet still had enough quality to cope.

I honestly think our first 11 is only below Man City, squad I could buy below Man Utd, Chelsea and Pool but anything below that is seriously underrating us I think.

I agree since Man City ran us over, we’ve been dire. It coincides with injuries but as mentioned before, I believe poor management and choice of tactics and not adjusting the formation l but that’s another subject.

[HighPeakFox]

I agree with @Ric Flair - I'll say nothing more than that.

[gerblod]

I've stated most of this already, but my slant is that BR shouldn't be calling the shots during the match (npi). He's made some howlers with the formation - admittedly when faced with contingencies.

Nor is he entirely pragmatic with the talent he has at hand. He's persisted with Perez, ignored Praet and virtually blanked Uender. He's persisted with Iheanacho when these last three games have seen his touch desert him.

He has also invariably stuck to the 60 minute 'rule' when subbing.

 

The orthodoxy of placing an individual in comprehensive charge of all sectors of team matters leads to inappropriate decision-making when that individual is weak in certain aspects of the job.

He's acted, but seemingly in a stultified manner when adaptability of thought was essential.

Of course, I don't know what the dynamic of the 'dugout' is and the lads focus should be on him alone, but we need someone whose tactical awareness and estimation of a player's suitability in a given situation is spot on. 

He needs to free himself up.

 

[Deeg67]

One other element that bugs me about Rodgers is how often he leaves subs unused (5th in the league in unused subs this season, 6th last season).  That's a tremendous wasted opportunity, and probably a contributing factor to why his sides always seem physically spent by the end of the season. 

[Coalman]

On Sunday the match commentator actually said on the hour mark that '' the midfield is opening up now as Spurs go on the attack, giving Maddison more room to make those FORWARD passing moves ''.  The commentator obviously could see more opportunities to ATTACK Spurs. What did BR do?  Took off Maddison and 'defended'  once again.  We have 'defended' nearly all season with one or two exceptions ( Man Utd in FA cup ) and playing out from the back gives me palpitations! How many times has Schmeichel kicked or threw a quickly-released long ball for Vardy or AN Other to chase this, or last season?  We had a superb chance and 'king blew it again because of poor game management IMHO.

Edited 26 May 2021 by Coalman

[Coalman]

On 23/05/2021 at 20:34, dayday said:

We use to move the ball a lot quicker now we’re passive in our play.

 

Also our movement in and around the box was a joy to watch.

 

I find them times a distant past 

When was the last time that Schmeichel launched a quick-fire counter attack??  He now passes it a a full back who passes it back to him, who then passed to another full back who passes it to the centre half who passes it back to Schmeichel.  And in the process give Foden/Salah/Pulisic/Sterling/ etc the chance to nip in and score.  We had a great chance this year of finishing runners-up in my opinion and BR buggered it up with poor on-field management.

[Deeg67]

3 minutes ago, Coalman said:

When was the last time that Schmeichel launched a quick-fire counter attack??  He now passes it a a full back who passes it back to him, who then passed to another full back who passes it to the centre half who passes it back to Schmeichel.  And in the process give Foden/Salah/Pulisic/Sterling/ etc the chance to nip in and score.  We had a great chance this year of finishing runners-up in my opinion and BR buggered it up with poor on-field management.

But the alternative is Kasper booting it into the "rattle your jewelry" seats, so...

Edited 26 May 2021 by Deeg67

[Coalman]

On 24/05/2021 at 16:41, deanolegend1989 said:

Fantastic post and I agree pretty much with it word for word.

As you said, there were far better options and he never learns his lessons.

I know Amarty isn’t great but it is a round peg in round hole and overall would of been a much better option. You can’t guarantee it would work but I could guarantee that what he did wouldn’t, and it didn’t!

There is absolutely no way that as average as Amarty is, he would be any worse than Rhys Williams and Nat Phillips at Liverpool. As I said previously Klopp was doing the same - not trusting his squad players and putting square pegs in round holes and was getting dogs abuse for bemoaning injury’s and excuses. He adjusted, Rodgers didn’t.

He continued with a formation that I’ve outlined for months why it’s failing, it’s right in front of everyone’s faces and yet he sticked to it.

Since the international break we have won 3 drawn 1 and loss 5 - the wins being a very fortunate one vs Palace bailed out by a wonder strike, One vs Man Utd’s second string and vs West Brom where barring 45 mins, we were really poor as soon as Sam nullified us.

We are easy to play in a 5 atb, and even worse when we don’t have actual CBS there, the whole things a mess and we can bemoan injuries, but the reality is we had enough to make it with a tactically astute manager.

 

Again I agree completely with what you say about how the media portray in. It’s completely true and the reason people at the moment can’t see past him/the narrative and like you say so perfectly - the ‘myth’.

At the end of the day we are a ‘small’ club to the media, so winning silverware is a pass for anything else and boosts the profile and keeps the myth of him going. People who look deeper into it can see that he is far from the main reason we won the FA Cup.

We might be ‘little Leicester’ and don’t get me wrong, winning the FA Cup is a brilliant achievement and he has to take credit for that but the squad we have and the performance on the day of our players - in particularly Youri, Kasper Soyuncu and Fofana who produced world class moments - it was far from ‘his tactics’ that won us that game.

 

He has to take huge blame for the failure to make top 4. Last season it was an awful collapse but other than an absolute mental Brighton at home match with a flat middle 4 of Madders Mendy Ndidi Gray and a bizarre negative decision away at Bournemouth which we completely bottled, I thought there was lots of other factors as to why we went on an awful run pre and post lockdown.

We looked unfit, injuries to key men, smaller squad and playing the likes of Ryan Bennett and a clearly not ready Justin.

This season however is more down to him. FA Cup means people will turn a blind eye, but imo he actually did a worse job this season than last in his decision making and in game tactical management.

It remains to be seen but I truly believe if he was just braver and adjusted we’d of made it. We were 1/9 to make the top 4 before the Southampton game and were even 1/4 at 65 mins yesterday. The bookies are rarely wrong, and this wasn’t a situation where we were punching so hard but didn’t have enough squad depth - this was situations that we were in most eyes clearly going to make it , yet it never felt to me even close because we haven’t looked convincing on the pitch in any game since he’s gone 5 atb.

Away at Aston Villa made me think we had a real chance, then he changed and I didn’t think we would at any point until after Palace when I thought ‘we really are playing poor but we might fall over the line somehow’. We didn’t and despite being 1/9 on it felt 1/1 at best and that’s down to underachieving.

Barnes injury is hugely impacting us and people can throw the injury argument/he’s won the FA Cup/bigger clubs bigger resources as an excuse, but the reality is Klopps poor management mid season and Frank struggling with his flop signings, gave us a pass if we wanted it - We didn’t.

 

I also agree that despite it looking like I’m completely against everything - at the start of the season you tell me ‘5th and an FA Cup’ I’d snap your hands off(I thought we’d finish 5-9th at the start of the season so I’d of snapped it with a cup!). However that was before and after how Liverpool got hit hard by injuries and Chelsea’s 200 million was spent poorly let’s be honest, so with the situation presented we should of made it count.

Last season we blew a bigger points lead but as stated above felt like we had lots more wrong and Ricardo Chillwell Madders injuries cost us, we looked unfit after lockdown and it cost us. Brendan was at fault but it was a bit of everything and Man Utd’s relentless form. Last season we were very unlucky as this season it’s more thrown away. Fofana and Castange gave a lot more solidy to the defence and before the last few games we had no real injuries except Barnes and Justin yet we have been poor ever since Barnes was out due to poor management, tactics and formations. In the same way Klopp kept making excuses losing Van Dijk and started throwing it away, he then just stopped moaning and trusted his initial style and just coped with weak CBs.
There is no way we shouldn’t of made top 4 this year and that’s why it could be detrimental to our future trajectory. Youri Wilf and Fofana and Soyuncu are the spine that will keep us pushing. Lose any of them(especially Youri) we will go back to mid table and that’s the fear for me.

Not even bothered by the CL. Its more just for the fact that we really will find it hard to keep these boys now I fear.

Should we lose nobody(significant anyway) and add a RW, CF and that lad from Lille we’ll push hard for top 4 again imo. However if we lose anyone I mentioned above we will do well to finish above 8th. Crucial summer for us and bottling the top 4 is the reason it’ll be a huge sweat

 

Spot on with all that you say.  You mention the media love-in with certain players.  They have gushed over Nacho since his ( fortunate ) end of season goal spree, they obviously havent seen his lack of touch or control recently! They talk of Maddison as though he is a Midfield Maestro, when IMO he is a pretty-boy who shines for 10 mins per match, if you're lucky!  In the past week I have heard commentators say  that ' We all know that Vardy needs just one opportunity ( to score ) ...' . In fact over the past few weeks Vardy hasnt been able to hit a barn door with a banjo!   Football, its a funny old game.... :-(

[Coalman]

1 hour ago, Deeg67 said:

But the alternative is Kasper booting it into the "rattle your jewelry" seats, so...

The opposition cant score from there though!

[Duquesne Whistle]

2 hours ago, Coalman said:

Spot on with all that you say.  You mention the media love-in with certain players.  They have gushed over Nacho since his ( fortunate ) end of season goal spree, they obviously havent seen his lack of touch or control recently! They talk of Maddison as though he is a Midfield Maestro, when IMO he is a pretty-boy who shines for 10 mins per match, if you're lucky!  In the past week I have heard commentators say  that ' We all know that Vardy needs just one opportunity ( to score ) ...' . In fact over the past few weeks Vardy hasnt been able to hit a barn door with a banjo!   Football, its a funny old game.... :-(

Oh come on. What on earth does Iheanacho have to do to get a modicom of praise? 

14/15 goals in the most competitive league in the world is not 'fortunate' for heavens sake. 

I don't know exactly the situation with Vardy, but he's in the twilight of his career, was injured and probably played with a nagging aftermath from that injury, as many players do. 

Iheanacho came in, really after not being trusted, and gave his all. Where would we have been without him? 

Yes, he has his weaknesses, but he gave his all for his wages, we can't deny that. 

He was also our lucky mascot in the FA cup and shone in that, with the exception of the final. I think you're being unbelievably harsh. 

 

Where I do agree is that I think Maddison doesn't deserve some of the commentary he gets. Again, I don't particularly agree with you that he only ever shines for 10 minutes, but I have expected more from him. 

 

 I don't want a battle, we all have our opinions, I just think you're being pretty harsh on all 3.

Edited 26 May 2021 by Duquesne Whistle

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

Oh come on. What on earth does Iheanacho have to do to get a modicom of praise? 

14/15 goals is the most competitive league in the world is not 'fortunate' for heavens sake. 

I don't know exactly the situation with Vardy, but he's in the twilight of his career, was injured and probably played with a nagging aftermath from that injury, as many players do. 

Iheanacho came in, really after not being trusted, and gave his all. Where would we have been without him? 

Yes, he has his weaknesses, but he gave his all for his wages, we can't deny that. 

He was also our lucky mascot in the FA cup and shine in that with the exception of the final. I think you're being unbelievably harsh. 

 

Where I do agree is that I think Maddison diesnt deserve some of the commentary he gets. Again, I don't particularly agree with you that he only ever shines for 10 minutes, but I have expected more from him. 

 

 I don't want a battle, we all have our opinions, I just think you're being pretty harsh on all 3.

I have noticed lately that any evidence for anything that goes against a certain narrative is waved away with 'it was/we got/he was lucky'.

[Ric Flair]

5 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

One other element that bugs me about Rodgers is how often he leaves subs unused (5th in the league in unused subs this season, 6th last season).  That's a tremendous wasted opportunity, and probably a contributing factor to why his sides always seem physically spent by the end of the season. 

I think that also backs up how few midfield and attacking options we've had available for a lot of the season. What's the point of bringing more DM's or defenders on if you're chasing a result and people go wild if we bring negative subs on when winning...

[sacreblueits442]

20 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Vardy is a curious one, as a finisher he was below standard but his game play with Iheanacho was important and I'm not sure either would have had the impact for us up top on their own, Vardy because he wasn't in form and Iheanacho because he often struggles in the lone striker role.

...you would have thought if anything was to tail off in Vardy's game it would have been his pace!!!

  The surprising thing was his finishing which although he was not playing his usual role, he fluffed some very good opportunities set up by Nacho's good play. Hard to believe there was a confidence issue surrounding Vardy but he was playing well, just struggling to convert when the chance arose.

 He will be just as quick next season and his confidence will be there.

 A noticeable thing missing with him at the back end of the season was his temperament and his demeanour. That snarling pest character seems to have gone and an astute and understanding player has taken his place. It is a miraculous conversion, but it has also taken something out of his game.

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...you would have thought if anything was to tail off in Vardy's game it would have been his pace!!!

  The surprising thing was his finishing which although he was not playing his usual role, he fluffed some very good opportunities set up by Nacho's good play. Hard to believe there was a confidence issue surrounding Vardy but he was playing well, just struggling to convert when the chance arose.

 He will be just as quick next season and his confidence will be there.

 A noticeable thing missing with him at the back end of the season was his temperament and his demeanour. That snarling pest character seems to have gone and an astute and understanding player has taken his place. It is a miraculous conversion, but it has also taken something out of his game.

Yeah he looked much quicker I the last month or two compared to his struggles in February and March.

[deanolegend1989]

10 hours ago, Coalman said:

On Sunday the match commentator actually said on the hour mark that '' the midfield is opening up now as Spurs go on the attack, giving Maddison more room to make those FORWARD passing moves ''.  The commentator obviously could see more opportunities to ATTACK Spurs. What did BR do?  Took off Maddison and 'defended'  once again.  We have 'defended' nearly all season with one or two exceptions ( Man Utd in FA cup ) and playing out from the back gives me palpitations! How many times has Schmeichel kicked or threw a quickly-released long ball for Vardy or AN Other to chase this, or last season?  We had a superb chance and 'king blew it again because of poor game management IMHO.

Yeah it’s almost embarrassing how he managed vs Spurs. He looked like someone totally out of his depth it was scary.

Some of the decisions he did were borderline mental.

As you said above, taking off Madders on 60 and going more defensive as it was opening up was absolutely moronic. Even worse is the fact that he didn’t bolster the midfield when Mason saw what was happening and adjusted.

Any half decent astute manager would of countered that. No one in their right mind would leave a 2 in the middle with Moura and Bale coming on. It would be hard enough with a 2 when they are throwing the sink at it with Hoijburg, Winks, Moura and Bale all in the middle but to leave a middle 2 which included Mendy who looked like he won a competition to play, is just mental.

Why he’s blanking Praet is obviously something behind the scenes, it just has to be. Even so if that’s the case, he’s cut his nose off to spite his face. Absolutely made for that situation, with his energy. Amarty could of come on and brought Wilf back in the middle and we could make it really tough for them.

Mason outdid Rodgers for god sakes, a 29 year old interim outthought one of the most overpaid managers in the league.

Last season Eddie Howe outdid him too by bringing on the mighty Stanilas which triggered Brendan to go defensive again and invite pressure on after a good first half. It’s not as if he hasn’t seen it before time and time again, he is very limited.

 

As you said, taking Madders off was poor in terms of actually giving there defence something to mark and Vardy made runs etc, it was an awfully poor sub in both an attacking sense but then not in a defensive sense too.

And to finish off, the bit in bold is spot on. I’ve been saying this for months as I could see it happening, he’s not a king, he’s a average manager with a very good squad. Pearson and O Neil are better managers and would of got us there in the situations we had.

Even when Pearson lost we ALWAYS fought to the end.

We were hopeless in 12/13 but he managed to scrap a win at Forest and a freak penalty miss and Deeneyyyy away from getting through. 14/15 hopeless again but he adjusted and changed our fortunes by good management. You could even go back to 09/10 when imo and I’ve said this before, but for me the season where we overachieved most relative to the situation/squad/resources. How he got us so close with that squad was unbelievable really. Kermagant pen and also the fact there goal to level it was offside meant we really should of got through, yet Cardiff(and Watford in 12/13) were much stronger on paper than us both times - he got the best out of us.

Rodgers doesn’t get the best out of his squad and that’s why he will never be a top manager. If he went to Man City or Chelsea he’d do fine as it’s there for him, but give him a Spurs or Arsenal rebuild and he’ll end up like Moyes did at Utd.

 

9 hours ago, Coalman said:

Spot on with all that you say.  You mention the media love-in with certain players.  They have gushed over Nacho since his ( fortunate ) end of season goal spree, they obviously havent seen his lack of touch or control recently! They talk of Maddison as though he is a Midfield Maestro, when IMO he is a pretty-boy who shines for 10 mins per match, if you're lucky!  In the past week I have heard commentators say  that ' We all know that Vardy needs just one opportunity ( to score ) ...' . In fact over the past few weeks Vardy hasnt been able to hit a barn door with a banjo!   Football, its a funny old game.... :-(

Agree again except the Nacho bit.

Nacho had a stinker vs Spurs and the cup final but it’s a bit harsh to say ‘fortunate’ for all his goals.

He looked great at Chelsea away and really changed us and we looked threatening. He’s clinical and his goals away at Burnley, away at Brighton and Home to Palace were all absolutely world class and were the main reason we hadn’t bottled it earlier. Him and Youri producing ridiculous moments hid the fact Brendan has not adjusted.

 

I agree with Madders but again despite agreeing he’s been far away from his best since he’s got back from injury, he has been stop starting and when starting, usually left midfield or left of a front 3! That’s not his bread and butter! He’s shocking there and hasn’t got the attributes so again you ask yourself why is he there and not in the number 10 role? Yes, Brendan square pegs in round holes Rodgers again. It’s just so poor.

I remember reading something not long back saying when we have Madders, Wilf, Youri as a triangle we had a ridiculous win %(might of even been unbeaten). Yet he changes it all constantly just because Barnes is out.

I’ve said this about 10 times but:

A back 4(FOUR)

A front 6 of

Praet Ndidi Tielemens

         Madders

      Nacho Vardy

 

That is exactly the way we should of gone in the past 10 games since Barnes was injured. It’s so upsetting because I’m almost certain it would of worked to get us at least 68 points.

We’ve only played it once in the entire time he’s been here, 4-1 away at Villa in December 2019. We could of had 8/9 we created so much and it was at the peak of our 8 game winning run.

He has just changed as a manager, he’s got so negative and it’s poor.

We had 56 points with 9 games to go. We got 10 points out of 9 games - so again our PPG has fallen hugely in the final furlong yet we still turn a blind eye to the reason of this.

Edited 26 May 2021 by deanolegend1989

[messerschmitt]

44 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Yeah it’s almost embarrassing how he managed vs Spurs. He looked like someone totally out of his depth it was scary.

Some of the decisions he did were borderline mental.

As you said above, taking off Madders on 60 and going more defensive as it was opening up was absolutely moronic. Even worse is the fact that he didn’t bolster the midfield when Mason saw what was happening and adjusted.

Any half decent astute manager would of countered that. No one in their right mind would leave a 2 in the middle with Moura and Bale coming on. It would be hard enough with a 2 when they are throwing the sink at it with Hoijburg, Winks, Moura and Bale all in the middle but to leave a middle 2 which included Mendy who looked like he won a competition to play, is just mental.

Why he’s blanking Praet is obviously something behind the scenes, it just has to be. Even so if that’s the case, he’s cut his nose off to spite his face. Absolutely made for that situation, with his energy. Amarty could of come on and brought Wilf back in the middle and we could make it really tough for them.

Mason outdid Rodgers for god sakes, a 29 year old interim outthought one of the most overpaid managers in the league.

Last season Eddie Howe outdid him too by bringing on the mighty Stanilas which triggered Brendan to go defensive again and invite pressure on after a good first half. It’s not as if he hasn’t seen it before time and time again, he is very limited.

 

As you said, taking Madders off was poor in terms of actually giving there defence something to mark and Vardy made runs etc, it was an awfully poor sub in both an attacking sense but then not in a defensive sense too.

And to finish off, the bit in bold is spot on. I’ve been saying this for months as I could see it happening, he’s not a king, he’s a average manager with a very good squad. Pearson and O Neil are better managers and would of got us there in the situations we had.

Even when Pearson lost we ALWAYS fought to the end.

We were hopeless in 12/13 but he managed to scrap a win at Forest and a freak penalty miss and Deeneyyyy away from getting through. 14/15 hopeless again but he adjusted and changed our fortunes by good management. You could even go back to 09/10 when imo and I’ve said this before, but for me the season where we overachieved most relative to the situation/squad/resources. How he got us so close with that squad was unbelievable really. Kermagant pen and also the fact there goal to level it was offside meant we really should of got through, yet Cardiff(and Watford in 12/13) were much stronger on paper than us both times - he got the best out of us.

Rodgers doesn’t get the best out of his squad and that’s why he will never be a top manager. If he went to Man City or Chelsea he’d do fine as it’s there for him, but give him a Spurs or Arsenal rebuild and he’ll end up like Moyes did at Utd.

 

Agree again except the Nacho bit.

Nacho had a stinker vs Spurs and the cup final but it’s a bit harsh to say ‘fortunate’ for all his goals.

He looked great at Chelsea away and really changed us and we looked threatening. He’s clinical and his goals away at Burnley, away at Brighton and Home to Palace were all absolutely world class and were the main reason we hadn’t bottled it earlier. Him and Youri producing ridiculous moments hid the fact Brendan has not adjusted.

 

I agree with Madders but again despite agreeing he’s been far away from his best since he’s got back from injury, he has been stop starting and when starting, usually left midfield or left of a front 3! That’s not his bread and butter! He’s shocking there and hasn’t got the attributes so again you ask yourself why is he there and not in the number 10 role? Yes, Brendan square pegs in round holes Rodgers again. It’s just so poor.

I remember reading something not long back saying when we have Madders, Wilf, Youri as a triangle we had a ridiculous win %(might of even been unbeaten). Yet he changes it all constantly just because Barnes is out.

I’ve said this about 10 times but:

A back 4(FOUR)

A front 6 of

Praet Ndidi Tielemens

         Madders

      Nacho Vardy

 

That is exactly the way we should of gone in the past 10 games since Barnes was injured. It’s so upsetting because I’m almost certain it would of worked to get us at least 68 points.

We’ve only played it once in the entire time he’s been here, 4-1 away at Villa in December 2019. We could of had 8/9 we created so much and it was at the peak of our 8 game winning run.

He has just changed as a manager, he’s got so negative and it’s poor.

We had 56 points with 9 games to go. We got 10 points out of 9 games - so again our PPG has fallen hugely in the final furlong yet we still turn a blind eye to the reason of this.

I would love to know the statistics for goals conceded with 4 and 5 at the back. We look so much better with a back 4, it suits our full backs and means we can play 2 proper Cb's as we seem to struggle to have Evans, Fofana and Soyuncu available at the same time.

 

I can't understand that after 2 seasons and transfer windows our preferred 4231 can't be played when one player, ie Barnes is out.

The statement "we haven't got the players to play 4231" is used often when we haven't got the players to play 3412 either but we'll quite happily play anyone to keep that system such as Albrighton and Castagne looking lost at times.

4231 could as easily been played with either Albrighton or Ricardo on the right and Vardy on the left. Vardy has basically played down the left with Iheanacho in the middle anyway, we could have had more players in positions they were stronger in than 3412 and had a better defence.

I also agree with @deanolegend1989about the diamond with played against Villa in December 2019 which would have suited our available players better, rather than 5 at the back.

 

 

 

[messerschmitt]

Another reason I don't like 5 at the back is that if you width comes from attacking players, when they get it wide they can attack and take players on. If your width comes from wing backs they won't or can't take players on in the same way and more often than not they stop and pass back which results in this side to side with no forward momentum.

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Yeah it’s almost embarrassing how he managed vs Spurs. He looked like someone totally out of his depth it was scary.

Some of the decisions he did were borderline mental.

As you said above, taking off Madders on 60 and going more defensive as it was opening up was absolutely moronic. Even worse is the fact that he didn’t bolster the midfield when Mason saw what was happening and adjusted.

Any half decent astute manager would of countered that. No one in their right mind would leave a 2 in the middle with Moura and Bale coming on. It would be hard enough with a 2 when they are throwing the sink at it with Hoijburg, Winks, Moura and Bale all in the middle but to leave a middle 2 which included Mendy who looked like he won a competition to play, is just mental.

Why he’s blanking Praet is obviously something behind the scenes, it just has to be. Even so if that’s the case, he’s cut his nose off to spite his face. Absolutely made for that situation, with his energy. Amarty could of come on and brought Wilf back in the middle and we could make it really tough for them.

Mason outdid Rodgers for god sakes, a 29 year old interim outthought one of the most overpaid managers in the league.

Last season Eddie Howe outdid him too by bringing on the mighty Stanilas which triggered Brendan to go defensive again and invite pressure on after a good first half. It’s not as if he hasn’t seen it before time and time again, he is very limited.

 

As you said, taking Madders off was poor in terms of actually giving there defence something to mark and Vardy made runs etc, it was an awfully poor sub in both an attacking sense but then not in a defensive sense too.

And to finish off, the bit in bold is spot on. I’ve been saying this for months as I could see it happening, he’s not a king, he’s a average manager with a very good squad. Pearson and O Neil are better managers and would of got us there in the situations we had.

Even when Pearson lost we ALWAYS fought to the end.

We were hopeless in 12/13 but he managed to scrap a win at Forest and a freak penalty miss and Deeneyyyy away from getting through. 14/15 hopeless again but he adjusted and changed our fortunes by good management. You could even go back to 09/10 when imo and I’ve said this before, but for me the season where we overachieved most relative to the situation/squad/resources. How he got us so close with that squad was unbelievable really. Kermagant pen and also the fact there goal to level it was offside meant we really should of got through, yet Cardiff(and Watford in 12/13) were much stronger on paper than us both times - he got the best out of us.

Rodgers doesn’t get the best out of his squad and that’s why he will never be a top manager. If he went to Man City or Chelsea he’d do fine as it’s there for him, but give him a Spurs or Arsenal rebuild and he’ll end up like Moyes did at Utd.

 

Agree again except the Nacho bit.

Nacho had a stinker vs Spurs and the cup final but it’s a bit harsh to say ‘fortunate’ for all his goals.

He looked great at Chelsea away and really changed us and we looked threatening. He’s clinical and his goals away at Burnley, away at Brighton and Home to Palace were all absolutely world class and were the main reason we hadn’t bottled it earlier. Him and Youri producing ridiculous moments hid the fact Brendan has not adjusted.

 

I agree with Madders but again despite agreeing he’s been far away from his best since he’s got back from injury, he has been stop starting and when starting, usually left midfield or left of a front 3! That’s not his bread and butter! He’s shocking there and hasn’t got the attributes so again you ask yourself why is he there and not in the number 10 role? Yes, Brendan square pegs in round holes Rodgers again. It’s just so poor.

I remember reading something not long back saying when we have Madders, Wilf, Youri as a triangle we had a ridiculous win %(might of even been unbeaten). Yet he changes it all constantly just because Barnes is out.

I’ve said this about 10 times but:

A back 4(FOUR)

A front 6 of

Praet Ndidi Tielemens

         Madders

      Nacho Vardy

 

That is exactly the way we should of gone in the past 10 games since Barnes was injured. It’s so upsetting because I’m almost certain it would of worked to get us at least 68 points.

We’ve only played it once in the entire time he’s been here, 4-1 away at Villa in December 2019. We could of had 8/9 we created so much and it was at the peak of our 8 game winning run.

He has just changed as a manager, he’s got so negative and it’s poor.

We had 56 points with 9 games to go. We got 10 points out of 9 games - so again our PPG has fallen hugely in the final furlong yet we still turn a blind eye to the reason of this.

I find it fascinating how you can spin the hugely poor spells in Pearson because he then turned it around but you give no regard for the fact that in 2.5 seasons under Rodgers our bad spells see us drop 1-2 positions to 5th place each time. The way you describe him at how poor he is, he ought to be getting this team to severely under achieve, and do what the likes of Puel and Shakespeare did where we were mid table.

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I find it fascinating how you can spin the hugely poor spells in Pearson because he then turned it around but you give no regard for the fact that in 2.5 seasons under Rodgers our bad spells see us drop 1-2 positions to 5th place each time. The way you describe him at how poor he is, he ought to be getting this team to severely under achieve, and do what the likes of Puel and Shakespeare did where we were mid table.

I can explain - it's quite a common phenomenon, and Deano is by no means the only culprit, we all are at times.  It's a deadly combination of confirmation bias in alliance with cognitive dissonance, lightly sprinkled with just enough ego to prevent an admission of wrongness. I find it a shame in this case, because it is obvious that he can put together a lot of good points and evidence, and from a standpoint of passion and support too. 

[deep blue]

19 hours ago, gerblod said:

I've stated most of this already, but my slant is that BR shouldn't be calling the shots during the match (npi). He's made some howlers with the formation - admittedly when faced with contingencies.

Nor is he entirely pragmatic with the talent he has at hand. He's persisted with Perez, ignored Praet and virtually blanked Uender. He's persisted with Iheanacho when these last three games have seen his touch desert him.

He has also invariably stuck to the 60 minute 'rule' when subbing.

 

The orthodoxy of placing an individual in comprehensive charge of all sectors of team matters leads to inappropriate decision-making when that individual is weak in certain aspects of the job.

He's acted, but seemingly in a stultified manner when adaptability of thought was essential.

Of course, I don't know what the dynamic of the 'dugout' is and the lads focus should be on him alone, but we need someone whose tactical awareness and estimation of a player's suitability in a given situation is spot on. 

He needs to free himself up.

 

I agree so much with this and it expresses the frustrations I have felt watching the matches where we have achieved much less than we should have done.

 

BR is an excellent manager but no single person can be expected to master the whole gamut of skills required to manage a Prem squad.  BR's Achiles heel is, in my view, game management, and he displays the faults you have highlighted. 

 

I would say that Pearson was a bit suspect in game management but was excellent in the long term issues;  Puel similar, but not quite in the same way.  Both would probably make very good Technical Directors. O'Neill was great at game management but left the bits he wasn't so good at to others.  BR has other helpers and you wonder how much he listens to them in his match decisions.

 

I am not for getting rid of BR nor do I fail to appreciate his very good attributes. I just wish he would be more honestly analytical and willing to accept his errors, and to learn from them.  He doesn't do this, otherwise he wouldn't be repeating the same errors in games - playing squad members (especially key ones) out of position, reluctance to show trust in his bench, over-cautious and defensive attitudes during games, missing the opportunity to make early tactical changes when the current system clearly isn't working.

 

I must repeat that I do not for one moment suggest a change of manager (or that I can see a better one who we could go for anyway), nor am I unaware that he is one of the best in the Prem.  I just hope that he will improve his matchday decision-making next season.