EURO 2020 FINAL. England v Italy. At Wembley. Thread.

[fazzyfox]

It was the opportunity, Italy looked ominously efficient against Spain in between the pantomime routines but home turf, against a form side but not the best you'll see, that's why it's so disappointing. Why is the team sheet is so about dealing with who you're playing, what about imposing headaches on them, field Grealish and give our CB's some options of who to find when we break. 

 

A horrible situation for Sako, generally the public have called for young players to get their chance but he either froze or was out of his depth, it's down to the manager to address that and pull him out of it, it's understandable from the player, he can't be blamed but you can't be in a major final with a passenger, you need 11 at 110%. I think Southgate particularly likes him for his adaptability to various positions and formations but with so many subs available it needed a change even if it would stifle the flexibility.

 

Henderson was OK in previous games as a senior leader seeing out the match and admirable after so little football this season but he's surely done now and we need 1 or 2 back ups for the Phillips role.

 

Heard a lot about how good Italy were on the ball, the issue should be how we weren't keeping it, usually because they had only Sterling, Kane and a non existent Mount to look up for.

[HybridFox]

 

[Guest Col city fan]

 

[foxile5]

Meet defeat and victory as the same. 

 

A very troubling thought, though, is why Southgate threw saka on to take the crucial penalty when he knows the weight of losing on the strength of missing one. Seems a very, very questionable choice to have him taking any, let alone the fifth. 

[Babylon]

15 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Strongly dislike Grealish but just his runs and falling over antics alone, can change the momentum of a game. I would have actually started him as Italy were fouling anyway and so he would have won at least 893 free kicks in their half 

Why did he not come on at the start of extra time at least, I mean what the **** what he waiting for exactly? You either want to change the game or you don’t. 
 

Drives me insane. It’s like Rodgers 65 minute subs, but it’s the 100th minute instead. 

[StriderHiryu]

47 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Out of interest, given the opposition. Who would it have been okay to go out to and consider it a good performance?

 

Closest I can think are Germany, but they looked incredibly hit and miss and we edged a game of fine margins. 

Good question!

 

I think it's only acceptable to go out to a team unless you played well for the whole game and deserved something from it. 1996 versus Germany, 1998 against Argentina. Both these games were classics where England played very well for large stretches.Those defeats were gutting, but acceptable because we played well. Tonight and the semi-final against Croatia we were out-footballed.

 

The way we played the throughout the tournament was safety first and not impressive. But this is elite level football we are talking about where results are more important than performances. When we won the league in 15/16 we played wonderfully in many games, but there were also many where we were average at best and ground out results. The terrible home performance against Newcastle where Okazaki scored an overhead kick was worth the same amount of points as our imperious destruction of Swansea. So I understand why Southgate chose this type of play, and France won the World Cup playing that way too.

 

But like many I prefer a proactive style of play. Italy are the deserved winners for me because in almost all of their games, they asked the questions. Their attacking patterns of play are very good, and their recycling and rotation of the ball fantastic. Today they conceded after 2 minutes to a team with home advantage who conceded the least number of goals in the tournament but slowly but surely proactively dominated the game to win. That's what a top class team does IMO.

 

But we were just a few kicks away from winning, and that does count for something. This is the closest England have come to winning in my lifetime, so progress is definitely being made.

 

 

Edited 11 July 2021 by StriderHiryu

[StanSP]

Sadly didn't take long at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[splinterdream]

Southgate has to learn how to use his squad better, he had 5 subs  fresh legs were needed, in the second half we needed a player to hold up the ball, he's a manager that seems to prefer to sit on his hands and hope it gets better rather than proactively change it.

For rashford and sancho to take a pen they really needed some of the play to get a feel for the ball surely.

It seems odd some of the senior players didn't want a pen 

[jmono84]

12 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Unreal from Southgate that he started that game. Bloke is shite! Genuinely forgot he was playing during the second half. 

I didn’t even realise he made it in the squad until all this talk about him!!

[Mike Oxlong]

Based on what some of our penalties were Boris is giving the whole country a wank holiday 

[Guest Col city fan]

2 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

 

Southgate did ‘give’ the 5th penno to Saka then and has taken responsibility.

I’m afraid it was a shocking choice given the circumstances. I said it before the penalty was taken and don’t understand the thought behind that decision 

[Brooksy]

Just now, StanSP said:

Sadly didn't take long at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was always gonna happen sadly.

[STUHILL]

Just now, Babylon said:

Why did he not come on at the start of extra time at least, I mean what the **** what he waiting for exactly? You either want to change the game or you don’t. 
 

Drives me insane. It’s like Rodgers 65 minute subs, but it’s the 100th minute instead. 

Was in complete shock by that decision. I even think it was a shock to Grealish as he should have been on well before that anyway. He is the definition of a game changer and Italy were bossing it. Stinks of being extra cautious and trying not to lose, as opposed to going for the win. 

[Nick]

3 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

 

The booing in the background is deeply  uncomfortable.

 

[Guest bennytwohats]

1 minute ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

I'm not scapegoating mate. I said Southgate deserved credit for getting us to the final but his conservatism ultimately cost us. That's not an emotional response, it's what I saw. Do you agree with barely using Sancho or Rashford, then throwing them on with 90 seconds left to take a penalty, in front of 70,000? Why not throw them on with 10 minutes of extra time left so they can influence the game or at least touch the ball before having to beat a 6ft 6 keeper from 12 yards?

If Southgate continues, of which there seems to be little doubt, I hope he learns from this. 

I don’t necessarily disagree with any of it. What I disagree with is the clamouring at full time to focus on the negatives and find a villain rather than focus on the positives and accept the negatives with good grace. Of course on a night we lose a final there are negatives to find with Southgate, but what I find bizarre is that this is what people would choose to focus on in an incredibly rare tournament we get to a final. Like I say,  if that’s what people on here want to focus on (clearly it is) carry on, but I find it quite telling personally 

[Dan LCFC]

The better team won it.

[Duquesne Whistle]

1 minute ago, foxile5 said:

Meet defeat and victory as the same. 

 

A very troubling thought, though, is why Southgate threw saka on to take the crucial penalty when he knows the weight of losing on the strength of missing one. Seems a very, very questionable choice to have him taking any, let alone the fifth. 

Not great, but wasn't sending Rashford and Sancho on to take them with 90 seconds of extra time left worse? At least Saka has had a couple of matches. Sancho has had his confidence knocked by hardly getting a shout during the tournament and Rashford has been struggling for a while.

I feel sorry for all 3 of them. I can't get my head round keeping 2 substitutions until 118 minutes of play has passed.  Genuinely don't understand the thinking by Southgate on that.

[StanSP]

4th defeat at Wembley for Mount.

 

Cursed.

[Guest ttfn]

We’ve had the best tournament run of my lifetime and we’ve gone out with a whimper.

 

And the most annoying thing is how predictable that it was. We were either going to win narrowly (1-0 or on pens) or we were going to lose a low scoring game. 
 

Sancho has been criminally mis-used and hopefully this is the end of Mount being preferred to Foden (when fit). I honestly think having Foden and Sancho in for Saka and Mount would have such a positive impact on this team.

 

 

[Parafox]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Sadly didn't take long at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disgraceful at any level. Twitter should ban these scrotes for life

[Parafox]

2 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

The better team won it.

And that, basically, is the fact of the matter. 

[foxile5]

Just now, Duquesne Whistle said:

Not great, but wasn't sending Rashford and Sancho on to take them with 90 seconds of extra time left worse? At least Saka has had a couple of matches. Sancho has had his confidence knocked by hardly getting a shout during the tournament and Rashford has been struggling for a while.

I feel sorry for all 3 of them. I can't get my head round keeping 2 substitutions until 118 minutes of play has passed.  Genuinely don't understand the thinking by Southgate on that.

Yes. Agreed. The whole final was mismanaged. Though he's done a very fine job in getting us there. 

 

Can't help but think he set a few up for failure. Shaw should have took a penalty. Same too Philips. Baffling really. Of the missed three only Rashford should've been taking one. 

 

 

[Vlad the Fox]

Got to say I’m reading a lot of shite on here (up to page 48). I’m guessing much of it is reactionary. Southgate got us to a final which we lost on penalty shoot outs, he deserves credit for that, Italy have looked on it from the start. Regarding the penalties  you have no choice but to go with those that have shown they can take penalties and those that are willing to put their hands up for one, maybe Sako put his hand up while more experienced players hid, he should be commended for that. While personally I wouldn’t necessarily make subs for penalties as it could impact the actual match, in this case it made no difference so the manager has a decision to make and that’s the one he chose.

 

Prior to the tournament I was apathetic to England and the job Southgate was doing. Obviously I wanted them to win but had little hope at the start. But a semi final and a final in his two tournaments to date he has far outstripped anything any previous manager has done for what, about 50 odd years, so he deserves a lot of  credit and respect and to argue different makes you look a bit pathetic. By the way this is me changing my tune. 
 

I’ve realised tonight that a lot of the apathy that I feel/felt is down to the mind numbing qualifiers, that’s not Southgate or anyone else’s fault, players, management or fa, it’s eufa for allowing all nations to have a chance of qualifying to expand the tournament. We have to deal with it which is basically to treat them as an handful of friendlies to get ourselves ready. In future I’ll watch these matches but realise the longer game.

 

Im gutted tonight, feels a lot like the same old, but we have a lot to be positive about. This pe teacher bullshit I hear is crap considering where we have come from regarding tournament placing, and with a young squad Southgate has shown he can rebuild. Get behind them and let’s see where this can take us.

Edited 11 July 2021 by Vlad the Fox

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, Parafox said:

Disgraceful at any level. Twitter should ban these scrotes for life

Par for the course now. ****ing horrible. 

 

At nineteen years old that boy has been asked to be more of a man than I've ever been. 

[fazzyfox]

2 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Southgate did ‘give’ the 5th penno to Saka then and has taken responsibility.

I’m afraid it was a shocking choice given the circumstances. I said it before the penalty was taken and don’t understand the thought behind that decision 

I was genuinely shocked when I saw him walking up to take it. "What, the kid?", "Where's Grealish..Where's...?" Another day I might not have been quite so shocked, I still don't know a great deal about him but he'd barely put a foot right all night