EURO 2020 FINAL. England v Italy. At Wembley. Thread.

[Tielemans63]

5 hours ago, Koke said:

Not good 

 

 

He completed about 127 fouls across the 90 minutes too and Kuipers let him get away with it.

 

I thought Rice and Phillips more than matched up their midfield. It was Mount that disappointed. He was neither one nothing or the other and should have been hooked early in the second half.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Southgate said he chose the takers. Trying to take the heat or the truth who knows. But Saka shouldn’t be the 5th taker.

If that’s the case then, the absolute state of that decision making…. Rests on his shoulders.

[Vindaloo FOX]

I need a break from football for sometime 

[FrankieADZ]

fair play for England getting to the final, but its the same as the WC for me, anyone really half decent(Germany and Croatia arent what they were imo) and we struggle,

cant see us getting to another final for a long while tbh, all due respect to Southgate, he might have done well again but as stated, we come up against better teams and he seems to get out thought in some respects.

he'll still be in charge for Qatar and we'll more than likely get knockout in the Q16 

[Bert]

10 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

If that’s the case then, the absolute state of that decision making…. Rests on his shoulders.

Absolutely. I’ve always thought when it comes to pens it should be “who wants one” And then go from there. 

[shen]

Commiserations to England. Very tough way to lose out. I honestly didn't think England would lose on penalties given how much energy and effort has been put into these to avoid previous heartbreaks. Well done on an excellent tournament, these guys will come back stronger.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

I said in this thread during the match, that Verratti was taking control of the game. Someone should have stopped him. That was exactly what our formation was meant to do.

This is why the Italian team is so good though, they have two players that can run the game in Jorginho and Veratti. Kalvin Phillips sat on Jorginho all game and generally did a great job containing him, but it’s hard to occupy two players in this way. That said Mason Mount was largely anonymous from both an attacking and defensive standpoint so he could have been asked to watch out for Veratti. 
 

Marco Veratti is a world class player though! A lot of people point out that Ligue 1 is a weak league, but Veratti was one of the best players in both Serie A and Ligue 1. For me he’s currently the best player in that position, one of the few that’s even better than Tielemans. 
 

Mancini also deserves respect because he found a way to play Jorginho and Veratti together. In club football they play the same position, but for the national team, Veratti plays slightly more advanced. 

[Pliskin]

Thought Chiesa was obscene last night. He causes more problems for England’s defence on his own than most other teams have this tournament. 
 

Could have gone either way in normal time. Just still can’t help but think Gareth’s reserved management style prevented this team from winning. 

[reynard]

In the cold light of day I'm afraid we have to chalk it up as yet another failure.

Overall I thought the standard of the tournament was below average and the trophy was there for any half decent side to take it. England had all the advantages of playing nearly all their games at Wembley, benefited from a very decent group and then a favourable draw all they way to the final.

 

On the night they didn't do enough to win the game in my opinion. The manager was too cautious and when it came to it the penalties, those that were missed were simply of poor quality.

A missed opportunity to win a major trophy when all the teams were bang average and where we benefited greatly from home advantage.

 

[Jon the Hat]

8 hours ago, SecretPro said:

I'd love to know why Jordan the sideways snail came on for the best player on the pitch to be honest.

I like Henderson, but the game completely passed him by.  Rice was playing very well but I think was pretty knackered.  We lack some depth here to be honest.

[RowlattsFox]

Southgate tries to plan everything from the training ground, even the penalty takers. His inability or unwillingness to change things midgame cost us. 

 

Walker, Stones and Maguire excellent all tournament, would they have been as good if they were exposed? Maybe not, that will be Southgates defence anyway. 

 

Rice and Phillips were generally excellent, big fan of their attitudes to playing for England. But international football is about keeping the ball and dictating play, you can't play both of them. 

 

Sterling was good, got his goals but I still think the future of this England team leaves him behind. I think we'd create more as an attacking outlet with our more technical attackers on the pitch. 

 

If Kane is going to piss about in midfield so much we need to play him alongside another striker. No touches in the box all game last night apparently? Ridiculous. 

 

It's a good time, plenty of potential but need to work out how to get the best out of them. 

Protect the defence by keeping the ball rather than being defensive. 

[FrankieADZ]

1 minute ago, reynard said:

In the cold light of day I'm afraid we have to chalk it up as yet another failure.

Overall I thought the standard of the tournament was below average and the trophy was there for any half decent side to take it. England had all the advantages of playing nearly all their games at Wembley, benefited from a very decent group and then a favourable draw all they way to the final.

 

On the night they didn't do enough to win the game in my opinion. The manager was too cautious and when it came to it the penalties, those that were missed were simply of poor quality.

A missed opportunity to win a major trophy when all the teams were bang average and where we benefited greatly from home advantage.

 

spot on for me, its easily the best chance of winning a tournament england will get for least another 20+years imo,

but its like everything with england, we score then go cautious, when for me....the italians were there for the taking after we scored as they looked rattled and stunned(for the first 20/25mins)

but its typical England and Southgate for me; happened at the WC, Nations League and now Euros

[when_you're_smiling]

26 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

fair play for England getting to the final, but its the same as the WC for me, anyone really half decent(Germany and Croatia arent what they were imo) and we struggle,

cant see us getting to another final for a long while tbh, all due respect to Southgate, he might have done well again but as stated, we come up against better teams and he seems to get out thought in some respects.

he'll still be in charge for Qatar and we'll more than likely get knockout in the Q16 

I don’t understand why people seem flummoxed with the idea it was difficult to win against opposition who have also gone a long way into a tournament.

 

Of course it’s difficult to win against ‘semi-decent’ teams. That’s because they’re semi-decent.

 

It’s like everyone now thinks this group of players are England players are Brazil 1970. Only difference is I’m sure the moment Brazil 1970 didn’t then get slated because every team they beat wasn’t then immediately classed as ‘not decent’.

 

I get the disappointment behind the management last night and yeah, Southgate cocked it up, but any criticism should be tempered with the fact that he made several decisions that got England that far on the first place. Again, that huge arrogance that England would have just got through just by turning up is utter hollow

 

The World Cup and Euros are special because they’re difficult to win and England came agonisingly close, and that’s despite the fact they were second best on the night and probably don’t have as good a side as Italy.

[Pliskin]

7 minutes ago, reynard said:

In the cold light of day I'm afraid we have to chalk it up as yet another failure.

Overall I thought the standard of the tournament was below average and the trophy was there for any half decent side to take it. England had all the advantages of playing nearly all their games at Wembley, benefited from a very decent group and then a favourable draw all they way to the final.

 

On the night they didn't do enough to win the game in my opinion. The manager was too cautious and when it came to it the penalties, those that were missed were simply of poor quality.

A missed opportunity to win a major trophy when all the teams were bang average and where we benefited greatly from home advantage.

 

Spot on. 

[st albans fox]

You could argue that asking the same players to do three games in eight days was too much after they’d pretty much played all the group games ….especially as he doesn’t like making changes in tight games 

 

some old heads had said he should rest players v Ukraine as we could get through with plenty of ‘second choice’ starters given the depth of the squad

 

Hindsight or experience ??

 

 

[Dan LCFC]

7 hours ago, BoyJones said:

Have to disagree. I thought Italy were bang average and after their first two games, sneaked the rest of the games. They didn’t deserve to win it, but fair, they got over the line somehow. 

 

Probably the least talented winners for some years, but generally speaking the quality was lacking all through the tournament. If England had really attacked tonight they would have won in normal time. Southgate’s safety first approach cost us tonight. And putting young kids to take the pens! Poor management by GS. We’ll win nothing with him in charge. 

They were better than us. We were nothing special at all throughout most of the tournament. Solid, well organised, but ultimately felt a bit like the Puel style solidity where it's because we surrender loads going forward in order to achieve this. I think Spain would've probably beaten us too. We've taken steps forward but there are still flaws and you can't help but feel it's another missed opportunity.

[FrankieADZ]

5 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

The World Cup and Euros are special because they’re difficult to win and England came agonisingly close, and that’s despite the fact they were second best on the night and probably don’t have as good a side as Italy.

yes and no in that respect, i think we have about the same standard as them, just Italy had the better coach, who knew how to fully use his squad

though once some of the old Italian heads retire from that Italian defence i think they could struggle for a bit

Edited 12 July 2021 by FrankieADZ

[Bert]

16 minutes ago, reynard said:

In the cold light of day I'm afraid we have to chalk it up as yet another failure.

Overall I thought the standard of the tournament was below average and the trophy was there for any half decent side to take it. England had all the advantages of playing nearly all their games at Wembley, benefited from a very decent group and then a favourable draw all they way to the final.

 

On the night they didn't do enough to win the game in my opinion. The manager was too cautious and when it came to it the penalties, those that were missed were simply of poor quality.

A missed opportunity to win a major trophy when all the teams were bang average and where we benefited greatly from home advantage.

 

Disagree with the first bit. We won the group without conceding a goal. We were written off against Germany and executed the perfect game plan. Absolutely battered Ukraine. Written off by some against Denmark and came from a goal behind to win, the last 30 minutes and the first period of extra time we absolutely battered them, as well. So I’m not so sure about a favourable draw - Italy played all their group games at home and didn’t meet anyone that was half decent until the semi final. 
 

But I do agree about last night. Didn’t do enough, the game management was poor. As soon as we switched to a back 4 we instantly looked better, mind. You can’t set up to contain for that long in a game against a team that haven’t lost in 30 odd games. Our centre forward didn’t have one touch in the box. A missed opportunity indeed, as had we put them to the sword we could and should’ve won. 
 

Any time you don’t win is a failure of course but we’ve actually gone through the tournament without losing a game. 

[reynard]

3 minutes ago, Bert said:

Disagree with the first bit. We won the group without conceding a goal. We were written off against Germany and executed the perfect game plan. Absolutely battered Ukraine. Written off by some against Denmark and came from a goal behind to win, the last 30 minutes and the first period of extra time we absolutely battered them, as well. So I’m not so sure about a favourable draw - Italy played all their group games at home and didn’t mean anyone that was half decent until the semi final. 
 

But I do agree about last night. Didn’t do enough, the game management was poor. As soon as we switched to a back 4 we instantly looked better, mind. You can’t set up to contain for that long in a game against a team that haven’t lost in 30 odd games. Our centre forward didn’t have one touch in the box. A missed opportunity indeed, as had we put them to the sword we could and should’ve won. 
 

Any time you don’t win is a failure of course but we’ve actually gone through the tournament without losing a game. 

All about opinions of course. But I'd say Belgium and Spain were tougher than Ukraine and Denmark by a long way.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Away from the football, struggling to understand how the police couldn't control the crowd outside if wembley. Surely it didn't come as a suprise that the scenes got so ugly?

 

Literally the worst policed game I've ever been to. By a mile.

[when_you're_smiling]

13 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

yes and no in that respect, i think we have about the same standard as them, just Italy had the better coach, who knew how to fully use his squad

though once some of the old Italian heads retire from that Italian defence i think they could struggle for a bit

Yeah I agree. But I also don’t think Mancini is that good a manager either. Being an international manager is completely different to a club manager. Italy could easily have lost to Austria in the last 16 and the narrative would have been completely different.

[when_you're_smiling]

2 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Away from the football, struggling to understand how the police couldn't control the crowd outside if wembley. Surely it didn't come as a suprise that the scenes got so ugly?

 

Literally the worst policed game I've ever been to. By a mile.

Really gutting to read. Guess it’s going to harm the World Cup 2030 bid too.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

Should have won it in 90 for how commanding we were in the first half, but given how the second half went we did well to get to penalties. I think Southgate was naive with his subs before the penalties but surely 99.99% of the blame is on Rashford. Utterly ridiculous penalty. Stupid run-up that should have been disqualified anyway, and then not even on target. Not having any excuses about him only being on the pitch for 2 minutes, he's been a professional footballer for years and that's how he decided to take his penalty? It's not just 1 penalty missed, that would have affected everyone taking their penalties after. Unforgivable.

 

Hugely disappointed for Pickford, he did not deserve to be on the losing team

[Babylon]

Did a single pundit criticise the manager for being negative after the game? I see Lineker posting now that we need to be more attacking, yet never saw him say much on TV (couldn't watch the end of the show). 

[David Hankey]

I presume from last night's ignominy over the penalty shoot-out that the England set-up doesn't have a penalty coach. Given the fact they have a myriad of coaches and technicians for everything else isn't it about time these players knew how to take on?

 

The silly and stupid antics of stuttered run-ups and an arched run in approach has failed time and time again. Instead of concentrating the mind on just simply the more important issue of striking the ball goal wards we have to endure this daftness.

 

Should the penalty taker hit the ball goal bound and it happens to be saved fair enough but please, in future, cut out all the crap for your own good.