EURO 2020 FINAL. England v Italy. At Wembley. Thread.

[Bert]

3 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

True, it’s often the case when it comes to England. Had we won though absolutely guaranteed the European press would have looked for anything negative to plaster their papers with. 
 

A little bit more grit, and lessons learned for Southgate and England will be a force in 18 months.  

Let’s hope so pal. This team is going from strength to strength. Hopefully lessons will be learnt from where it all went wrong. 

[AKCJ]

Ah well. in 2/3 years time I imagine this England squad will be a real force.

 

In the other times we've looked like a genuinely good side (96 and 2006) you got the impression it was that squad's last chance. This squad is brimming with young players with a long way to go.

[foxile5]

2 minutes ago, Bert said:

Hopefully lessons will be learnt from where it all went wrong. 

It's Southgate that needs to learn them. The more I reflect on last night the more some of his decisions don't hold water. Taking Henderson off before  penalties was a crazy move. I know he's missed one recently but the man has lived under the near constant weight of expectation as a Liverpool captain over the last couple of years...and delivered 2 major, major trophies. Why Southgate, whose decision making this tournament has seemed really positive, felt that a 19 year old Saka should be the preferred taker is honestly baffling. 

[SemperEadem]

State of those fans whacking and fighting their own.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

31 minutes ago, Bert said:

The “England are cheats brigade” are all eerily quiet today…. 

Italy are the worst cheats in world football and I'll die on that hill. 

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

They're on about giving Southgate a knighthood apparently. There's just such a lack of winning mentality.

This country oozes it from every pore. There’s such an emphasis now on giving people credit for ‘trying’, such that ‘winning’ becomes almost immaterial. 
The Italian nation will be extremely proud in the success of the football team whereas the Brits are happy enough that we ‘nearly did it’

This attitude has become embedded in our culture.

The fact is that Southgate last night set us up like West Brom playing away to Man City (like somebody wrote above). To seemingly be wanting to shit-house a result by going to penalties wasn’t good enough and wasn’t needed. We had the players last night to take the game to the opposition and to win

But now it seems, Southgate will be knighted because he’s ‘lifted the spirits of the nation’…?

I don’t feel ‘lifted’. I actually feel quite deflated that we set up a team to avoid losing rather than to ensure winning

But that’s contemporary Britain I’m afraid.

 

Edited 12 July 2021 by Col city fan

[fox_up_north]

15 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

We made it easy for Chiellini and Bonucci after the first 20 minutes because we barely put any pressure on them. No runners in behind and Kane not bothering to get in the box. 

Absolutely. It should not have taken that long for us to put Chiellini in a position to get carded. They're old enough to be Saka's dad. We should have been getting them moving and having to make tough decisions all day long. 

[Happy Fox]

Italy are a well drilled unit and a more street wise team. Mancini is a far greater manager than Southgate.

[foxes_rule1978]

6 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Italy are the worst cheats in world football and I'll die on that hill. 

They play lovely stuff but yeah never been a favourite of mine because of their antics, they have never changed. Anyway they were the best team in the tournament but we were so close and losing on penalties hurts a lot… suppose we should be use to it losing 7 of the last 9 though, but it never gets easier. 
 

it is about Southgate learning with this young squad, progress has been made and he does need to start to take more risk though to make that extra step 

Edited 12 July 2021 by foxes_rule1978

[Sharpe's Fox]

1 minute ago, Happy Fox said:

Italy are a well drilled unit and a more street wise team. Mancini is a far greater manager than Southgate.

yep . I think it came down to a manager who has managed 700 top division and cup games confident enough to make in game decisions compared to one who last managed a club 12 years ago.

[David Hankey]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

They're on about giving Southgate a knighthood apparently. There's just such a lack of winning mentality.

A knighthood, blimey he's done nowt yet. Maybe if we win the World Cup!!

[MattFox]

12 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

State of those fans whacking and fighting their own.

Wembley set up is a joke , The FA deserved this.

 

 

[foxes_rule1978]

3 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

A knighthood, blimey he's done nowt yet. Maybe if we win the World Cup!!

I would wait after 2022, I think he is moving the team in the right direction but he does have his faults especially when trusting in his attacking players. A knighthood is going too far though, proud but we still won nothing, had we won then that would be a different matter

Edited 12 July 2021 by foxes_rule1978

[Les-TA-Jon]

I don't think I'll ever fathom why Saka is in the 5, let alone put at 5th - when he's 19, has barely played 50 senior games and never taken a penalty in a match before. 

[foxes_rule1978]

2 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

I don't think I'll ever fathom why Saka is in the 5, let alone put at 5th - when he's 19, has barely played 50 senior games and never taken a penalty in a match before. 

I just knew he would miss, just for those reasons… he probably did look great when practicing but it is more about experience and nerves when taking penalties. I should expect every professional can take great penalties in practice 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

7 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Wembley set up is a joke , The FA deserved this.

Wembley is the easiest jib in the country, everyone knows that. 

[VLC86]

8 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Wembley set up is a joke , The FA deserved this.

 

 

When I’ve been to tournaments elsewhere they have about 3 cordons around the stadium and check tickets thoroughly.

 

The guy who scanned me in yesterday genuinely didn’t look at my ticket let alone anything to do with Covid. By that point it was pure chaos.

[martyn]

Southgate's in game management is his biggest Achilles heel. He has fostered a fantastic atmosphere and culture in the England set up, which is to be applauded and celebrated, but his loyalty to players is a weakness as much as a strength, and his ability to read the game and make changes which effect the pattern of play is not up to scratch. It's why I think we'll struggle to get over the line in major tournaments on his watch.

 

As soon as Italy pushed up 10 yards last night and compressed the game it stopped Kane and Sterling being able to receive the ball on the half turn between the lines, and we lost the ability to feed decent ball into the front players Both were totally ineffective from about 30 minutes onwards. At the same time, Verratti and Jorginho then started getting on the ball and dictating tempo taking the legs away from our midfield. As good a tournament as Rice and Phillips had, neither of those players were available to receive the ball and keep it moving on the rare occasions we got the ball back, because they aren't particularly press resistant, and because they were expending their energy chasing it around the midfield to little effect.

 

Sensible options would have been to get some real mobility into midfield (Bellingham) to try and disrupt their flow and at least try and win the ball higher up the pitch, get a ball carrier on to try and hold the ball, relieve the pressure, and feed the ball into the front players, (Grealish), and/or get some real, direct pace on up front (Rashford/Sancho). I say "direct" because even though Saka and Sterling were on the pitch, they were showing more to feet where we were crying out for a threat in behind, even if just to give the centre halves/Phillips an out ball as well as trying to put Bonucci and Chiellini, both on yellow cards, under some pressure.

 

Mancini, a world class manager, saw how the game was progressing, made the early tweaks tactically and with personnel (Immobile off due to lack of space in behind, more talented technicians onto the pitch to dominate the ball totally). Southgate didn't, and wouldn't likely ever do that with Sterling, Mount, and even Kane, despite the fact they were non factors for most of the 120 minutes.

 

I understood the pragmatic approach and why it continued, given how far we progressed in the tournament, but we have talented enough players to force the issue a bit more. Hopefully Foden plays a bit more centrally for Man City this season and can adapt his game to a slightly deeper role, we're crying out for a player of his class to help control the tempo in the middle of the park and keep the ball moving. Rice and Phillips had decent tournaments, but they aren't good enough players, individually, or as a pair, to wrest the initiative back when the momentum of a game changes.

 

 

Edited 12 July 2021 by martyn

[RonnieTodger]

Woke up feeling just as gutted. Cannot be arsed with work today. It's hard to get angry at any of the players or Southgate, given how far we've come but we'll be stewing on what could've been for at least the next four weeks, if not longer. We didn't deserve to win the game, but we still should have (if that makes sense). He just has not learned from the Croatia semi final.

 

Many ifs/buts, but the key one was the Rashford penalty for me. He was the last taker I had confidence in and him scoring would've put serious pressure on the Italians. People saying Sterling should've taken one obviously haven't seen him take a penalty before.

 

On a personal note, what a horrible end to the night. Was all going so well, then got drenched, lost my sunglasses and almost had to walk 2 hours home because Uber was up to £60 and my phone was almost dead  

[String fellow]

3 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

I don't think I'll ever fathom why Saka is in the 5, let alone put at 5th - when he's 19, has barely played 50 senior games and never taken a penalty in a match before. 

I tend to agree. And when Rashford strolled casually up to the ball for his effort, I knew it would end in tears. As for bringing on players just for the penalty shoot-out, I'm not sure that's a good idea. The pressure on them is enormous - they can't possibly be as relaxed as the players who've been playing from the start and who know that if they miss, they'll be able to say that they had a good game otherwise. Tbh, I think Southgate's tactics for the shoot-out were poor. 

[when_you're_smiling]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

Qatar have 2022. Corruption is all that counts. We'd get it if we bribed enough.

Ha. Fair point!

[Babylon]

Jesus Christ Gareth. 

[Deeg67]

All I know is Southgate should never stop buying lottery tickets, because he's surely the luckiest man on the planet.

 

Let's be realistic - England had a fantastically easy draw.  italy defeated two sides to get to the final that would likely have beaten Southgate's England side.  And on the day, Italy clearly deserved the win - they were the vastly superior team.  That said, as if by magic the game became competitive as soon as Grealish came on (England might even have had the better chances).  Southgate left multiple subs unused until the 120th minute and refused to attack the game even though Italy has defensive vulnerabilities.  And how in the world can Grealish not get a penalty in the shootout - especially when Saka takes one?

 

Southgate may have fostered a positive atmosphere around the squad, and he deserves credit for that.  But his decision-making from the lineup card on down is atrocious.  His record is only as decent as it is because of blind luck.  There's enough talent in this side to compete for major trophies without needing to depend on that blind luck, but not as long as Southgate is in charge.

Edited 12 July 2021 by Deeg67

[Babylon]

I don't care how good someone is in training, I just can't fathom how you could watch Saka after he came on and think it was right for him to take a pen. 

[Jonezy]

Gosh darnit you guys!

 

Penalities are a lottery and you have some proper bad luck in them.

 

I was so sure that you would bury all your demons yesterday, so when it went to penalties, I was confident, that you would do it.

 

Heads up. You have an amazing talented team and a manager, that can unite them. You will be a force at the World Cup as well and thats the one you really want to bring home anyway isn't it...