EURO 2020 FINAL. England v Italy. At Wembley. Thread.

[shen]

2 hours ago, peach0000 said:

Not necessarily. Less pressure on the first couple so you don’t know what would have happened. Put Saka or Sancho (not convinced they should have taken one at all) on the first ones then they may have performed better. Let people like Kane step up for the 5th. It’s standard practise and it’s standard for a reason. 
 

It’s not hard for a professional player to take a good penalty. It’s the pressure that gets to them and make them **** up. Experience is key and the most experienced takes the hardest one.

Like Babylon says, Kane might not even have kicked a penalty then. I'm pretty sure it's a debunked myth that placing your best taker last is the best option, for exactly the scenario presented. You want the taker to be at worst third or fourth.

 

Also, you seemed to suggest the England hadn't been preparing properly for penalties earlier in the thread.
Geir Jordet's research seems to suggest they absolutely have spent extensive resources to improve their shootout penalty kicks.

18 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

The more you look at Penalties the worse it looks for Southgate and some members of the team.

 

I mean having Rashford, Sancho and Saka taking 3 penalties in a row given England's record was a ticking timebomb waiting to go off on Social Media. If it was pre planned surely someone in the group would have pointed out the potential for a bitter fallout. Maybe take it in 1st(Sancho) 3rd(Saka), 5th(Rashford) order if that was the plan. Or maybe have just 2 of the 3 take a penalty.

 

You'd really want a Shaw or Grealish (more experienced players) to think of the greater good. They had reasonably good tournaments so could point to good performances to get there. The 3 lads who missed didn't have that luxury.

 

I mean that is a ludicrous suggestion.

Imagine being a coach who, like any sane and normal person, doesn't see skin colour but actually judges on the persom gets nudged by a colleague and asked to take skin colour into consideration.
Would you have said this if these three had scored their penalties? Of course not.

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Unabomber said:

Yeah that was good to see. Where was Harry?

He’s a rugby man.  And lives in California.

[Foxxed]

7 hours ago, Ricey said:

They've been practising penalties all month so they'll know who the best takers are. Clearly Saka looked better than Grealish in training.

A training ground penalty. Or a penalty in front of 60 000 fans at Wembley?

 

The first requires little composure and little experience. The second - bit more?

 

Southgate gives to a 19 year old who's taken zero penalties outside the training ground?

 

7 hours ago, Ricey said:

As for frightened, Saka has been one of the most fearless players we've had all tournament. He's looked free of pressure and confident. It's confirmation bias to suggest he was simply frightened.

He looked out of his depth and he did no look confident. He looked like a 19 year old kid. Grealish, however, looked calm and collected. And wanted to take a penalty.

 

Southgate chose the 19 year old kid who's taken zero penalties to stand up in front of 60 000 to make our break our tournament.

 

And now he's suffering the abuse of an incredibly poor decision, from a manager who was playing for penalties. Shite.

 

[Unabomber]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

He’s a rugby man.  And lives in California.

Ah right admits it 

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Regardless it's still not a red card. Laughable that was even a suggestion. Just saltiness to think if it was.

I like to Think the following...If a Player in such situation can be snidey, then the ref,can make a snidey decision & send him off & say sorry afterwards..

Mind you in this Case the old Italian,would have took that hit,to Empire Saka didn t get a free run, & it was Late in the game...

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, StevieLynex said:

Didn't like the approach taken by most of our players in removing their medal as soon as it was put around their necks - disrespectful. If you had played better, you would have won the thing.

They can’t do right for wrong. Philips kissed his and he is being called a loser.

[CosbehFox]

Whilst never on that scale, the jibbing at Wembley has been happening for years and all tournament. Once you are past the ‘ring’, the next steward you see is that just inside the stadium.
 

Very common for someone with a ticket to go in with a friend and try either pushing through with them. Or someone inside the ground open up the disabled gate/fire door. 
 

During the Cup Final, that ring of stewards were totally pathetic on checking anything. Strikes me aswell that Wembley Stadium/FA don’t like paying for coppers either 

[Unabomber]

If people can get in without paying the extortionate prices then fair play. Blame the security not the fans. Also seeing England fans attack fellow fans for jibbing was very odd. 

[shen]

45 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

I like to Think the following...If a Player in such situation can be snidey, then the ref,can make a snidey decision & send him off & say sorry afterwards..

Mind you in this Case the old Italian,would have took that hit,to Empire Saka didn t get a free run, & it was Late in the game...

Swings and roundabouts. The bias is showing and while I can appreciate the feeling of unfairness at the punishment received for the incident and objectively can see why some are calling for IFAB to review scenarios like these, it quickly becomes a slippery slope.

 

15 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

If people can get in without paying the extortionate prices then fair play. Blame the security not the fans. Also seeing England fans attack fellow fans for jibbing was very odd. 

I'm sorry, but are you seriously condoning criminal offences? "Blame security, not the fans" - right, so the regular tax payer should in a circumspect way tolerate and pay for the 'jibbers'? Fvck that mate. I'm completely down with thugs being put in their place even though vigilantilism obviously isn't what I want.

[StanSP]

Rashford. Always conducts himself in a respectful way.

 

 

[Hoopla10]

2 hours ago, Blue ROI said:

The more you look at Penalties the worse it looks for Southgate and some members of the team.

 

I mean having Rashford, Sancho and Saka taking 3 penalties in a row given England's record was a ticking timebomb waiting to go off on Social Media. If it was pre planned surely someone in the group would have pointed out the potential for a bitter fallout. Maybe take it in 1st(Sancho) 3rd(Saka), 5th(Rashford) order if that was the plan. Or maybe have just 2 of the 3 take a penalty.

 

You'd really want a Shaw or Grealish (more experienced players) to think of the greater good. They had reasonably good tournaments so could point to good performances to get there. The 3 lads who missed didn't have that luxury.

 

Ignoring GS's awful decision making during the game and then bringing on players who hadn't touched the ball to take the most stressed pen' in their lives (so weird)... even if Saka had been great at pens in training we all know there's an element of luck. There was always a big chance Saka would not score. So even if he practiced them well and put his hand up to take them Southgate as the manager still couldn't ask him to take it and certainly not in the fifth spot. He knows what it feels like to miss something like that, he knows the sort of emotional and mental stress it creates, he knows how a portion of the public would react (scumbags the lot of them but they're still a known reality). From everything GS did (or didn't do) last night that was the thing that blew my mind. What was he thinking? 

[VLC86]

2 hours ago, Blue ROI said:

The more you look at Penalties the worse it looks for Southgate and some members of the team.

 

I mean having Rashford, Sancho and Saka taking 3 penalties in a row given England's record was a ticking timebomb waiting to go off on Social Media. If it was pre planned surely someone in the group would have pointed out the potential for a bitter fallout. Maybe take it in 1st(Sancho) 3rd(Saka), 5th(Rashford) order if that was the plan. Or maybe have just 2 of the 3 take a penalty.

 

You'd really want a Shaw or Grealish (more experienced players) to think of the greater good. They had reasonably good tournaments so could point to good performances to get there. The 3 lads who missed didn't have that luxury.

 

Are we really in a situation where the manager of the national football team should consider that he has 3 black players taking penalties? 
 

He made a mistake with the pen takers but that wasn’t it.

[Hoopla10]

1 hour ago, Foxxed said:

A training ground penalty. Or a penalty in front of 60 000 fans at Wembley?

...in a final for the first piece of silverware in 55 years and you miss you're out. Yeah, it's not even remotely equal. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Just seen the Chiellini on Saka pull back again, and the Italian screaming at the referee that Saka handled the ball. 

 

Disgusting team.

[Blue ROI]

2 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Are we really in a situation where the manager of the national football team should consider that he has 3 black players taking penalties? 
 

He made a mistake with the pen takers but that wasn’t it.

Not saying it must be an issue but unfortuately with the melts supporting England it wasn't Southgate who would bear the brunt. If all 3 scored they would probably be national treasures this morning.

 

Its one thing to lose a penalty shoot out but sadly you knew the instant the game was over what was about to happen.

 

I'd say @Hoopla10 has summed up the situation better to be fair to him.

[shen]

25 minutes ago, Hoopla10 said:

Ignoring GS's awful decision making during the game and then bringing on players who hadn't touched the ball to take the most stressed pen' in their lives (so weird)... even if Saka had been great at pens in training we all know there's an element of luck. There was always a big chance Saka would not score. So even if he practiced them well and put his hand up to take them Southgate as the manager still couldn't ask him to take it and certainly not in the fifth spot. He knows what it feels like to miss something like that, he knows the sort of emotional and mental stress it creates, he knows how a portion of the public would react (scumbags the lot of them but they're still a known reality). From everything GS did (or didn't do) last night that was the thing that blew my mind. What was he thinking? 

Deschamps did exactly the same with Mbappé, I don't recall many saying that was a horrible decision.

Either way, I really don't understand this enormous focus on age. I'm in my mid thirties today and completely baulk at things I had no fear of when I was a t(w)een. You are more likely to not think about the consequences or fear the repercussions at that age.
It's oh so easy to assume a more experienced player would have had a different outcome.

Would it have been better if Saka was the 8th kicker and missed in a sudden death situation?
It's all completely hypothetical and Southgate obviously picked the players he believed could win the shootout for you. It's frankly staggering and an indictment of your country to suggest GS should have considered the player's skin colour in case of failure.

[shen]

26 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

Not saying it must be an issue but unfortuately with the melts supporting England it wasn't Southgate who would bear the brunt. If all 3 scored they would probably be national treasures this morning.

 

Its one thing to lose a penalty shoot out but sadly you knew the instant the game was over what was about to happen.

 

I'd say @Hoopla10 has summed up the situation better to be fair to him.

England's melts are the problem here, not Southgate or Saka. Get your sights adjusted man.

[StanSP]

Fvcking shit to read. 

Hope he's okay. 

 

[Blue ROI]

10 hours ago, TK95 said:

Gives FIFA any excuse not to award us the 2030 World Cup 

I'm not sure it will TBH.

 

England were awarded Euro 96 not long after some of the worst crowd trouble in history and after a ban on English clubs from European Competition.

 

After the mayhem caused by Combat 18 in Dublin back in 95 there was a bit of doubt surrounding Euro 96 but it passed without major incident.

 

Yesterday was grim from an England point of view but over the last quarter of a century the situation is largely under control.

 

Tensions under Brexit are a threat but this will probably blow over when things return to normal. Police won't be long sorting things out.

[Hoopla10]

2 hours ago, shen said:

Deschamps did exactly the same with Mbappé, I don't recall many saying that was a horrible decision.

Either way, I really don't understand this enormous focus on age. I'm in my mid thirties today and completely baulk at things I had no fear of when I was a t(w)een. You are more likely to not think about the consequences or fear the repercussions at that age.
It's oh so easy to assume a more experienced player would have had a different outcome.

Would it have been better if Saka was the 8th kicker and missed in a sudden death situation?
It's all completely hypothetical and Southgate obviously picked the players he believed could win the shootout for you. It's frankly staggering and an indictment of your country to suggest GS should have considered the player's skin colour in case of failure.

I'm not saying if an older player had taken it there would be a different outcome. I'm saying an older player would/should be more mature to deal with the outcome. Shaw, Walker, Sterling, Henderson etc, some of these MEN I would have hoped would have stepped up to carry the weight before watching a 19 kid do it. And if not then Southgate should have stepped in. There is no getting around this I don't think, there is a problem there and this just exposed it. From the manager to those who didn't step up. Maybe it's also why we didn't win in 90mins and instead became passive. 

 

Who said anything about skin colour? I know I haven't. But there's no getting around the reality of social media. SG has talked about it himself. He's made a statement specifically about the team taking the knee (as a unified message) so everybody is clear and a large part of that was for the social media backlash. He's been praised for his ability to bring unity, to show he cares for the players, to bring a sense of a team to the squad. And in many cases, rightly so. But in this case he knew the risk and sacrificed him (specifically Saka) anyway. That's not a good thing. As a manager his job is to MANAGE. If it means as others have suggested he tweaked the line up of penalty takers, that's okay. Racists will be racists so there's no point putting too much into this but yeah Saka should never have been put in that situation imo.  

 

About fearlessness. You're right, I was also a lot more fearless when I was younger. But I'm not sure I dealt with pressure very well. And having the sort of pressure of taking what could be the deciding pen' in the first tournament final for England in 55 year... I'd put my hand up, no question, then regret it about four steps towards the penalty spot  

Edited 12 July 2021 by Hoopla10

[Jattdogg]

 

Just noticed  this was already posted in the "not politics" thread  so sorry for any duplication...ok, maybe i am not.

Edited 13 July 2021 by Jattdogg

[ozleicester]

9 hours ago, StevieLynex said:

Didn't like the approach taken by most of our players in removing their medal as soon as it was put around their necks - disrespectful. If you had played better, you would have won the thing.

I couldnt care less really... but....Who was being disrespected?

 

5 hours ago, StanSP said:

Fvcking shit to read. 

Hope he's okay. 

 

Hope he is ok.... but...No-one should own a $80,000 watch....

 

 

Also...
What a shit game of football that was.

[Deeg67]

10 hours ago, StanSP said:

Regardless it's still not a red card. Laughable that was even a suggestion. Just saltiness to think if it was.

True, but neither was Jorghino's.  Even the blatantly homerish guys in the booth laughed at that being a red.  Did you see Grealish peeking through his hands to make sure everyone was watching his performance? 

[stripeyfox]

10 hours ago, Unabomber said:

If people can get in without paying the extortionate prices then fair play. Blame the security not the fans. Also seeing England fans attack fellow fans for jibbing was very odd. 

I can't agree with that. I'm sure you, I and most people on here would have been delighted to get a ticket for the final. But for those of us who did not, we made do with watching om tv. What we didn't do is travel to Wembley, get tanked and coked up and then break into the stadium, causing disorder and threatening the safety of stewards and other supporters.

 

 

[andy peake]

12 hours ago, Unabomber said:

If people can get in without paying the extortionate prices then fair play. Blame the security not the fans. Also seeing England fans attack fellow fans for jibbing was very odd. 

What a ridiculously stupid comment. Why should those people who have paid hard earned money for their tickets, many with young children, have to lose their seats to pissed up, abusive and violent yobs. I don’t think some people are fully understanding the scale of the problems on Sunday night. Yes the security should have been robust but let’s make sure blame lies squarely with those idiots who broke in and continue to bring shame on English football at home and abroad.