Right Winger

[coolhandfox]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Was it a combative midfielder that we were lacking in that final third of last season? No it wasn't. 

We scored the joint 3rd amount of goals.......

 

We out scored Chelsea in 4th and scored as many as Liverpool in 3rd

Edited 27 July 2021 by coolhandfox

[AKCJ]

@Mark

 

Is there any way you can change how many posts will turn a thread 'hot'?

 
Only seems to take 10 posts, with people checking the site during pre-season for transfer news it's annoying when a thread in the Transfer Talk section is 'hot' when actually it's just a little debate going on or something. 

[Babylon]

Our attacking options were awful because we had two players out injured who were in great scoring and assisting form, were missing our first choice full backs, who we often attack through. And had Vardy in absolutely stinking form. 

 

Vardy, Nacho, Daka, Barnes, Maddison, Albrighton, Perez. Potentially Ricardo is a decent enough attacking line up. I would love a top class winger, but I don't think it's any more important than another physical presence. How many times did we get walked over in the middle, especially if Ndidi was out, or concede a set piece. 

[Ric Flair]

12 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

No, but I don't think it the reason we have finish 5th two seasons running. 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We scored the joint 3rd amount of goals.......

Didn't score anywhere near enough in that final 3rd of the season when Barnes and Maddison were out and we changed systems. We are also weirdly worse defensively the more defensive we go. He wanted an ACM in January and didn't get one. We don't have a back up to Barnes and we don't have a quality right winger. When everyone is fit we are a very good team, when we go 4-2-3-1 with the key players of Evans, Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison, Barnes and Vardy we are up there but lose any of them, most certainly from midfield and it gets very troublesome.

 

We scored plenty of goals when the going was good, we struggled when it didn't. We need a right winger to improve our best starting XI and we arguably need a better back up to Barnes. 

[coolhandfox]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Didn't score anywhere near enough in that final 3rd of the season when Barnes and Maddison were out and we changed systems. We are also weirdly worse defensively the more defensive we go. He wanted an ACM in January and didn't get one. We don't have a back up to Barnes and we don't have a quality right winger. When everyone is fit we are a very good team, when we go 4-2-3-1 with the key players of Evans, Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison, Barnes and Vardy we are up there but lose any of them, most certainly from midfield and it gets very troublesome.

 

We scored plenty of goals when the going was good, we struggled when it didn't. We need a right winger to improve our best starting XI and we arguably need a better back up to Barnes. 

I agree but a RW doesn't fix everything, I'd rather have one.

 

But it not the end of the world

 

 

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah I sort of agree, I'd say they were both as important as each other and we went for a striker who is an out and out striker like Daka and not tried to kill two birds with one stone and go for one who can play out wide whilst we transition.

 

However in doing so we also have to accept that Vardy and Daka won't play together, in which case we still have the team issue of a weakness in the supply line and additional goals we lack from out wide. 

 

When everyone is fit, Barnes, Maddison and one of Vardy or Daka will score a good amount of goals. Iheanacho is a curious one because I still don't know how we make use of him that's not a detriment to the team but we know we can get 2 strikers on the field in a combination of him and Vardy or Daka and there will be goals. The downside there is Maddison seems way below par in this system and Perez who supposedly is a central support attacker was also poor in this system. Barnes hasn't ever played behind the strikers for us, he did at West Brom and did well but we've seen what's happens to him when he can't get the space to exploit, he is nullified and I don't think he's a 10 at all at this level. So we still need that creative play maker like Matheus Pereira or Ludovic Blas who allow us to play a number of systems but ideally we will go with 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 against the bigger sides and we know that injuries aside in that system we are one of the top sides in the league. 

 

Therefore we were and still are just 1 player shy, a quality right winger. I'll die on this hill, there's no way around it that will make us better off in the long run. More strikers won't solve it because it leads to other problems elsewhere. Get the winger, get the glory.

 

 

 

Barnes for me is probably our best player, he's almost the highest elite level as a PL wide forward. It would be criminal not tot to utilise him in his best position and we've witnessed over the last few years since BR came here we're at our best and most dynamic and threatening in a formation that has Barnes as a left sided FW player.

 

I just hope we plan on playing four at the back and wide FW players whether that be a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or some variation of that. If Benkovic can become that 4th CB then we're really well stocked in every area of the pitch apart from the wide FW players. We have options there numbers wise but I'd love to see us get a player to come in as a right sided FW that actually compliments the team rather than being the Achilles heal which it has been since Mahrez left.

 

I wonder if we're hanging on for Coutinho to play there as Barcelona need him gone and there is no elite clubs linked with him at this time. The longer this situation goes on the more desperate Barcelona will get. 

[jeffschlupp]

2 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Maybe not, but we will need one this season hence bringing Soumare in. The attack wasn’t the problem in the final third of last season when Kel was banging them in and others were making contributions in between. 
 

Rodgers had the option of Under to call upon on the right when Barnes was out and we still didn’t use wingers/wide forwards in attack, a right winger isn’t a necessity. We’ve filled the 3 most important gaps and if there’s a deal to be had then maybe we’ll do it, but honestly, we really don’t need one otherwise it would have been prioritised over those 3 other positions.
 

It’s a bonus, wildcard player - much like Under was last season, but it just didn’t work out. 

I don't know how you can say it's a bonus - it's a position on the field that has to be filled by someone if Barnes is on the pitch. Given Barnes is one of our best players, and Rodgers has openly admitted he can't play centrally, it would be madness to go into a season in which he can't play him in a balanced side.

 

I've said before but even if a manager is hell-bent on playing a narrow shape (which he isn't, having played wingers at Burton), you don't go into a season with 25 players and not having enough options to play quality wingers if narrow isn't working 10 games into the season.

 

RW is a must this summer if we have got strong ambitions. Albrighton, Sowah and Pérez all have their uses at times and would be perfectly good cover and options off the bench, with the latter two able to play centrally too. But we really need a starting player there.

 

Schmeichel

Ricardo Evans Söyüncü Justin

Ndidi Tielemans

RW Maddison Barnes

Vardy

 

Subs: Ward, Fofana, Castagne, Bertrand, Soumaré, Albrighton, Pérez, Daka, Iheanacho

 

That is one hell of a 20-man matchday squad, with Thomas, Sowah and other perfectly reasonable players missing out entirely. Every player in that starting XI is top class, and would get in at least 15 sides in the division no problem, if not more.

 

Would Pérez? Would Albrighton? Would Sowah? You know the answer, so let's solve that problem

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

Maybe not, but we will need one this season hence bringing Soumare in. The attack wasn’t the problem in the final third of last season when Kel was banging them in and others were making contributions in between. 
 

Rodgers had the option of Under to call upon on the right when Barnes was out and we still didn’t use wingers/wide forwards in attack, a right winger isn’t a necessity. We’ve filled the 3 most important gaps and if there’s a deal to be had then maybe we’ll do it, but honestly, we really don’t need one otherwise it would have been prioritised over those 3 other positions.
 

It’s a bonus, wildcard player - much like Under was last season, but it just didn’t work out. 

I honestly couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. THE ATTACK WASN'T THE PROBLEM? We lost Barnes and Maddisons goals, plus Vardy dropped off a cliff and only had Iheanacho who tried valiantly to secure top 4 for us. Look at the stats. The problem was we had to change systems, it benefitted Iheanacho but as we had no other creative midfielders or capable wingers to maintain 4-2-3-1 it was necessary. Vardy hasn't ever really prospered in a front 2, certainly not in recent years. 

 

You say that we had Ünder available and therefore because Rodgers didn't use him that it's because he wanted to play a different system but a) Rodgers knows 4-2-3-1 is our best system its where we've played the best football and got the best results over a period of time in the time he's been here. He's only changed formations due to certain key players like Ndidi and Vardy, and then Barnes and Maddison being unavailable. He'll go back to that favoured system next season too, otherwise we'd have gotten a proper left wing back in this summer and another attacking midfielder. B) Ünder was injured for the whole of March and most of April so how could Rodgers have called upon him when Barnes was out? Still ought to have used him at some point in the run-in when it was becoming clear we were floundering but can see why he wasn't, Praet being completely ignored was the most baffling.

 

We know we want a winger, numerous reputable folk have said it. Our fans seem to want to argue it though because some of us aren't impressed that it wasn't made the biggest priority this summer. 

[Ric Flair]

15 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I agree but a RW doesn't fix everything, I'd rather have one.

 

But it not the end of the world

 

 

In that case is any position that important? No single position fixes everything as its a team game played by 11 players. 

[Guest]

I really do admire your optimism if you can look at our right wing of options of Perez, Albrighton and Sowah and think "yep, that's a good selection for a team trying to qualify for the Champions League"

[Blanchflower78]

Damsgaard linked with Leeds 

[Dahnsouff]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

…

 

We know we want a winger, numerous reputable folk have said it. Our fans seem to want to argue it though because some of us aren't impressed that it wasn't made the biggest priority this summer. 

Is it definitely a wider attacker/winger, we want, or just more attacking players? I do not buy that without a RW we cannot utilise Barnes, that’s just nonsense. We would be non-symmetrical sure, but balance would not be an issue due to the strength of our right side in terms of deep running.

[jeffschlupp]

4 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

 

To be honest, when we have 3 very good strikers and Perez/Maddison who both operate better through the middle, I think chances are we’ll be playing 2 strikers and a 10 as the front 3 more often than not. 

 

This is the reason that I say right wing is a bonus, because it will likely just be Perez, Maddison, Sowah or Albrighton filling in on the right in the odd game that Rodgers decides to set us up in a way that utilises one rather than us using a right winger in most games. 

 

So are we selling Barnes then?

[jeffschlupp]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Is it definitely a wider attacker/winger, we want, or just more attacking players? I do not buy that without a RW we cannot utilise Barnes, that’s just nonsense. We would be non-symmetrical sure, but balance would not be an issue due to the strength of our right side in terms of deep running.

Plenty of teams have tried 'asymmetric' systems before and it just becomes a mess - the full-back on the side without a winger doesn't know when to go or stay, and the midfield don't know when to shuffle across or not. It's not viable

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, jeffschlupp said:

Plenty of teams have tried 'asymmetric' systems before and it just becomes a mess - the full-back on the side without a winger doesn't know when to go or stay, and the midfield don't know when to shuffle across or not. It's not viable

We will just have to disagree here, as the fact it would not work would be a training issue more than a personnel issue.

[kingfox]

Leicester fans when discussing the need for a right winger

[coolhandfox]

43 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

In that case is any position that important? No single position fixes everything as its a team game played by 11 players. 

I just think the spine of the team is more important, would you rather have a weak goalkeeper or CB, CM, CF?

 

 

[deep blue]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

You do realise we were joint 3rd highest scores in the league......

 

Man City 83

Man U     73

Liverpool 68

Spurs      68

LCFC      68

If there was one statistic we needed to improve last season it was "goals conceded", so even though our attacking appeared more and more blunt by the end of the season that wasn't one of the main reasons we failed to get above 5th.  Obviously there were several factors, but one thing that stood out for me was the way we started to get overrun in midfield in those games at the end.  The opposition ran freely at our unprotected defence and we couldn't cope. We desperately needed someone to bolster it (dunno why Praet wasn't entrusted with that job) and Soumare looks the ideal player to add that strength and competitiveness to our midfield. It looks like he could help with a swifter transition from defence to attack, too. 

 

So, as vital as RW and striker were this summer, I would argue that this addition to midfield was just as important, if not more so. As for how he fits into the team, I don't see the problem.  If we assume a basic 4-3-3, possibly with refinements, then the front 3 could be a fluid 3, 2 wingers and a striker, or a Maddison supporting 2 wide players.  Rather than it being a problem it gives us great, and variable, attacking options.

 

On the subject of striker, I think that last summer would have been a more ideal time to bring in a Daka-type player - it would have been better to bed him in that much sooner - but even so it's a welcome addition this year.  As for right wing ... well, that just won't go away and never looks like being fixed. We live in hope ... 

[UHDrive]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes, as in because of our options at right wing he was considering Ricardo. He could have tried this I previous seasons but didn't. Maybe he liked the blend of Castagne and Ricardo to enable him to do so, I'd certainly be intruiged to see it if they are ever both fit for long enough and if we struggle to get that new winger.

There were a few games last season where the combination of Castagna at RB and Ricardo at RW were tried just after RP's injury ending. The downside was that RP was too rusty after the injury and running into blind channels and stray balls back into midfield. It was obvious than rather than be a full out and out winger and whipping balls into the 6 yard box, that instead he was doing what Barnes does on the other side and exchanging play with midfield runners on the corner of the 18 yard box or cutting the ball back behind for Castagna to run onto. 

 

RP would be a last resort with no winger this season as he's right footed and he needs players around him ideally to pass to. He can run at players of course but it's not his forte and he gets the ball taken off of him too easily.

[Ric Flair]

9 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I just think the spine of the team is more important, would you rather have a weak goalkeeper or CB, CM, CF?

 

 

The thing is we have a strong keeper and backup, 3 very good CB's, an elite mix of CM's and an attack that was excellent but definitely needed another addition. Out wide our options are poor, one of the worst in the league.

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The thing is we have a strong keeper and backup, 3 very good CB's, an elite mix of CM's and an attack that was excellent but definitely needed another addition. Out wide our options are poor, one of the worst in the league.

I agree, it the issue with having a limited budget we are always on catch up.

 

Fingers crossed Sowah has a break out season.

Edited 27 July 2021 by coolhandfox

[UHDrive]

10 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I just think the spine of the team is more important, would you rather have a weak goalkeeper or CB, CM, CF?

 

 

With our formation and style and how we played last year then I'd say defence was the problem with conceding a lot of unnecessary goals. But defence is all players tracking back and doing their bit. Those goals were created because our flanks (right in particular) weren't fast enough with tracking back resulting in too much space in defensive corner areas with balls whipped in or balls given away through pressure and goals conceded. 

 

I think before we even go into styles of play and formation then we have to get the basics right and if 1 wing isn't functioning as fast or productive as the other then we clearly have a problem.

 

Pace is everything...RW

[Ric Flair]

11 minutes ago, deep blue said:

If there was one statistic we needed to improve last season it was "goals conceded", so even though our attacking appeared more and more blunt by the end of the season that wasn't one of the main reasons we failed to get above 5th.  Obviously there were several factors, but one thing that stood out for me was the way we started to get overrun in midfield in those games at the end.  The opposition ran freely at our unprotected defence and we couldn't cope. We desperately needed someone to bolster it (dunno why Praet wasn't entrusted with that job) and Soumare looks the ideal player to add that strength and competitiveness to our midfield. It looks like he could help with a swifter transition from defence to attack, too. 

 

So, as vital as RW and striker were this summer, I would argue that this addition to midfield was just as important, if not more so. As for how he fits into the team, I don't see the problem.  If we assume a basic 4-3-3, possibly with refinements, then the front 3 could be a fluid 3, 2 wingers and a striker, or a Maddison supporting 2 wide players.  Rather than it being a problem it gives us great, and variable, attacking options.

 

On the subject of striker, I think that last summer would have been a more ideal time to bring in a Daka-type player - it would have been better to bed him in that much sooner - but even so it's a welcome addition this year.  As for right wing ... well, that just won't go away and never looks like being fixed. We live in hope ... 

Have you considered that we only started conceding more goals when we had to change systems and no longer had the attacking threat and were badly exposed playing a high line with 3 centre halves that took it in turns to make hideous mistakes? 

 

It's all about balance. We weirdly are worse defensively when we go more defensive in our set up possibly because you then ask defensive players to contribute more in other areas and they get exposed, it certainly was a head scratcher. We know that in a 4-2-3-1 with a spine of Evans, Ndidi, Tielemans, Barnes, Maddison and Vardy we are that potent mix of good going forward and good at the back. They press and defend as a team and attack as a team.

 

 

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, UHDrive said:

With our formation and style and how we played last year then I'd say defence was the problem with conceding a lot of unnecessary goals. But defence is all players tracking back and doing their bit. Those goals were created because our flanks (right in particular) weren't fast enough with tracking back resulting in too much space in defensive corner areas with balls whipped in or balls given away through pressure and goals conceded. 

 

I think before we even go into styles of play and formation then we have to get the basics right and if 1 wing isn't functioning as fast or productive as the other then we clearly have a problem.

 

Pace is everything...RW

We won the league with a left winger without pace......

Edited 27 July 2021 by coolhandfox

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, UHDrive said:

With our formation and style and how we played last year then I'd say defence was the problem with conceding a lot of unnecessary goals. But defence is all players tracking back and doing their bit. Those goals were created because our flanks (right in particular) weren't fast enough with tracking back resulting in too much space in defensive corner areas with balls whipped in or balls given away through pressure and goals conceded. 

 

I think before we even go into styles of play and formation then we have to get the basics right and if 1 wing isn't functioning as fast or productive as the other then we clearly have a problem.

 

Pace is everything...RW

Lol. On this logic you could say LB is nowhere as productive as RB, do we need to get a new LB too? (I mean a starter, not Bertrand)

 

At some point you create the way you play with the tools you have, it’s not always about shopping.