Right Winger

[Deeg67]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Lol. On this logic you could say LB is nowhere as productive as RB, do we need to get a new LB too? (I mean a starter, not Bertrand)

 

At some point you create the way you play with the tools you have, it’s not always about shopping.

And if the tools you have aren’t good enough and you don’t shop for replacements, you pay the price on the pitch.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Lol. On this logic you could say LB is nowhere as productive as RB, do we need to get a new LB too? (I mean a starter, not Bertrand)

 

At some point you create the way you play with the tools you have, it’s not always about shopping.

It is about shopping when you run in to the same problems time and time again. We've not had a good enough selection of wingers under Rodgers, it's the only areas we are obviously weak in. I don't know why anyone is arguing this.

[UHDrive]

4 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We won the league with a left winger without pace......

Albrighton isn't exactly slow or have you forgot how quick he was back then?

[coolhandfox]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Have you considered that we only started conceding more goals when we had to change systems and no longer had the attacking threat and were badly exposed playing a high line with 3 centre halves that took it in turns to make hideous mistakes? 

 

It's all about balance. We weirdly are worse defensively when we go more defensive in our set up possibly because you then ask defensive players to contribute more in other areas and they get exposed, it certainly was a head scratcher. We know that in a 4-2-3-1 with a spine of Evans, Ndidi, Tielemans, Barnes, Maddison and Vardy we are that potent mix of good going forward and good at the back. They press and defend as a team and attack as a team.

 

 

We never lost a game Evans, Soyuncu and Fofona started together the issue wasn't playing a 3 it was when we didnt have the right 3.

 

 

[coolhandfox]

Just now, UHDrive said:

Albrighton isn't exactly slow or have you forgot how quick he was back then?

He's never been rapid. 

 

He was and is more of a non- stop runner then a pace merchant.

[UHDrive]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Lol. On this logic you could say LB is nowhere as productive as RB, do we need to get a new LB too? (I mean a starter, not Bertrand)

 

At some point you create the way you play with the tools you have, it’s not always about shopping.

No...I'm saying that LW has been typically fast and pacey for a few years now. RW hasn't. 

 

LB and RB are equal surely? Casgagna is quicker than Bertrand but not by miles, and can switch sides. JJ has Castagnes pace and can switch sides. Thomas is nearer to Bertrand for pace.

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It is about shopping when you run in to the same problems time and time again. We've not had a good enough selection of wingers under Rodgers, it's the only areas we are obviously weak in. I don't know why anyone is arguing this.

I don't think anyone disagrees, but for whatever reason we can't get one at the moment.

 

I think it probably becuase we can't get who we want at the right price.

 

 

[deep blue]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Have you considered that we only started conceding more goals when we had to change systems and no longer had the attacking threat and were badly exposed playing a high line with 3 centre halves that took it in turns to make hideous mistakes? 

 

It's all about balance. We weirdly are worse defensively when we go more defensive in our set up possibly because you then ask defensive players to contribute more in other areas and they get exposed, it certainly was a head scratcher. We know that in a 4-2-3-1 with a spine of Evans, Ndidi, Tielemans, Barnes, Maddison and Vardy we are that potent mix of good going forward and good at the back. They press and defend as a team and attack as a team.

 

 

I agree with your second paragraph. I also agree the we were poor defensively when we played 3 at the back (and, perversively, it seemed to weaken our attacking ability even more).

 

Where I disagree is that we were forced to play 3 at the back.  Better to have stayed with 2 CBs, but strengthen the midfield to give them protection, and the team more possession and control.  We didn't have the ideal solution in a player like Soumare, but I think Praet would have done a good enough job, had he been trusted.

[UHDrive]

2 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

He's never been rapid. 

 

He was and is more of a non- stop runner then a pace merchant.

How many times in that championship season was he able to get around top top PL RB players and whip the ball into the box.

[jeffschlupp]

1 minute ago, UHDrive said:

How many times in that championship season was he able to get around top top PL RB players and whip the ball into the box.

Given he was a right footer on the left side, not very often - he rarely made it to the byline and used to cut in and float them from the corner of the box mostly

Edited 27 July 2021 by jeffschlupp

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We never lost a game Evans, Soyuncu and Fofona started together the issue wasn't playing a 3 it was when we didnt have the right 3.

 

 

Yes, I was reacting to the point that the reason a winger isn't a priority is because actually we shipped more goals than we should of, but the games we shipped a tonne of goals was usually when one of them were out. We still were having issues creating and scoring goals when Maddison and Barnes were out and had gone 3 at the back, Iheanacho was on a 1 man mission to solve that and he very well nearly did but the key thing here is, if we lose Barnes then we seemingly have to go 3 at the back and if we lose Evans then 3 at the back makes us a bomb scare and we also struggle for creativity and goals. We also don't have a left wing back that plays the wing back role well enough. Luke Thomas is much more effective as a full back where his intelligence linking with a winger is complimented better. 

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

And if the tools you have aren’t good enough and you don’t shop for replacements, you pay the price on the pitch.

If every team were merely the sum of its parts, then managers are irrelevant.

 

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It is about shopping when you run in to the same problems time and time again. We've not had a good enough selection of wingers under Rodgers, it's the only areas we are obviously weak in. I don't know why anyone is arguing this.

Or another way to look at is to recognise the error of past attempts, recognise the continued failures and challenges in trying to solve it as done previously, then you seek an alternate solution. We could argue player x, y or a is a solution, but we must have thought the previous attempts were solutions too.

 

Either way, I think we will try again.  

[messerschmitt]

15 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The thing is we have a strong keeper and backup, 3 very good CB's, an elite mix of CM's and an attack that was excellent but definitely needed another addition. Out wide our options are poor, one of the worst in the league.

Out and out wingers are becoming like dinosaurs, more of the modern teams are using wider forwards, I mean who are Liverpool's wingers?, Albrighton is more of a traditional winger and in my opinion if it wasn't for his work rate wouldn't fit, certainly not his attacking. Barnes was noticeably getting more central which is why he scored so many. Look at his position for his goals.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

It's going to be a really long 5 weeks 🤣🤣🤣

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Chocolate Teapot said:

It's going to be a really long 5 weeks 🤣🤣🤣

Not if we buy a RW tomorrow. 

 

[GingerrrFox]

I’ve been told Brendan is very happy with Sowah, I reckon we are done transfer wise. 

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

No...I'm saying that LW has been typically fast and pacey for a few years now. RW hasn't. 

 

LB and RB are equal surely? Casgagna is quicker than Bertrand but not by miles, and can switch sides. JJ has Castagnes pace and can switch sides. Thomas is nearer to Bertrand for pace.

Pure pace perhaps (you missed Ricardo) but the balance of quality is far higher on the right ‘I would suggest

[UHDrive]

1 minute ago, jeffschlupp said:

Given he was a right footer on the left side, not very often - he rarely made it to the byline and used to cut in and float them from the corner of the box mostly

That's just isn't correct. He can use both feet and he certainly did make plenty of crosses into that area. 

[messerschmitt]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes, I was reacting to the point that the reason a winger isn't a priority is because actually we shipped more goals than we should of, but the games we shipped a tonne of goals was usually when one of them were out. We still were having issues creating and scoring goals when Maddison and Barnes were out and had gone 3 at the back, Iheanacho was on a 1 man mission to solve that and he very well nearly did but the key thing here is, if we lose Barnes then we seemingly have to go 3 at the back and if we lose Evans then 3 at the back makes us a bomb scare and we also struggle for creativity and goals. We also don't have a left wing back that plays the wing back role well enough. Luke Thomas is much more effective as a full back where his intelligence linking with a winger is complimented better. 

 

 

I don't think any of out full backs can play wing back, a fit Ricardo and JJ come the closest.

[teblin]

1 minute ago, GingerrrFox said:

I’ve been told Brendan is very happy with Sowah, I reckon we are done transfer wise. 

That’s the ideal scenario isn’t it? Sowah steps up, saves the club money. He looked ok on Saturday but to be fair the whole team were sluggish.

Edited 27 July 2021 by teblin

[UHDrive]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Pure pace perhaps (you missed Ricardo) but the balance of quality is far higher on the right ‘I would suggest

Definitely right sided full backs I agree. 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

I’ve been told Brendan is very happy with Sowah, I reckon we are done transfer wise. 

So be it, a wide prospect would be good if we get £££s from outgoings though

 

would guess it also depends on what becomes available, like always

Edited 27 July 2021 by Dahnsouff

[Steve Earle]

13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It is about shopping when you run in to the same problems time and time again. We've not had a good enough selection of wingers under Rodgers, it's the only areas we are obviously weak in. I don't know why anyone is arguing this.

I do! You're on Foxes Talk @Ric Flair

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, GingerrrFox said:

I’ve been told Brendan is very happy with Sowah, I reckon we are done transfer wise. 

You know what, I'm also glad to hear that if that's the case. I want to have the confidence our manager thinks he has the right squad. If he thinks Sowah is ready then great. 1 more would do but if Sowah is ready and he actually uses him then I'll be happy. My suspicions are he won't be used much and we will have the same problems as before.

[messerschmitt]

2 minutes ago, teblin said:

That’s the ideal scenario isn’t it? Sowah steps up, saves the club money. He looked ok on Saturday but to be fair the whole team were sluggish.

I've learned not to use pre season games to judge players at all, Perez looked excellent when he played his first pre season games