Right Winger

[coolhandfox]

34 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Because at every club Rodgers has been at, the 4 players who play in attacking positions all have to score a lot of goals. Currently our RW position provide a pitiful amount of goals and its possibly what's holding us back. A game of fine margins when competing for a top 4/6 place year on year.

I'd still argue that its our defenisve injuries tjat have cost us top 4 the last two season, we have been 3rd and 4th high scores in the last 2 seasons.

[jeffschlupp]

Will people stop saying we don't want a winger? Nixon, Blackwell, Bourne and Romano have all said we want one this summer. 

 

Winger, wide forward, call it what you like, we need someone to play the position directly ahead of the right full-back. We have not given Albrighton a three-year contract to be playing exclusively narrow systems, nor would we completely nullify one of our best players in Barnes by doing so.

 

Pérez is not very good and nor was Gray and that is why we stepped into the market last summer. The player we got was also not very good and he hasn't been replaced. If Sowah was the first choice answer we'd have seen him in pre-season with the first choice players - we haven't, and at best he will be an impact option, at worst he goes on loan again.

 

Rodgers is not blind. He knows Pérez was shite yesterday just as much as we all do, and he knows he has not had the impact he wanted him to over the course of the two seasons.

 

We haven't signed a winger yet because we haven't agreed a deal for the player we want - it sounds like a Michael Owen quote but it is important to realise that just because we're into the final month of the window, and X player is going to Y club, doesn't mean we are out of time and options.

 

I'd rather them wait to get this right than a) sign the wrong player or b) sign the right player but overspend by £10m or £20m. 

[Steve Earle]

29 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

Will people stop saying we don't want a winger? Nixon, Blackwell, Bourne and Romano have all said we want one this summer. 

 

Winger, wide forward, call it what you like, we need someone to play the position directly ahead of the right full-back. We have not given Albrighton a three-year contract to be playing exclusively narrow systems, nor would we completely nullify one of our best players in Barnes by doing so.

 

Pérez is not very good and nor was Gray and that is why we stepped into the market last summer. The player we got was also not very good and he hasn't been replaced. If Sowah was the first choice answer we'd have seen him in pre-season with the first choice players - we haven't, and at best he will be an impact option, at worst he goes on loan again.

 

Rodgers is not blind. He knows Pérez was shite yesterday just as much as we all do, and he knows he has not had the impact he wanted him to over the course of the two seasons.

 

We haven't signed a winger yet because we haven't agreed a deal for the player we want - it sounds like a Michael Owen quote but it is important to realise that just because we're into the final month of the window, and X player is going to Y club, doesn't mean we are out of time and options.

 

I'd rather them wait to get this right than a) sign the wrong player or b) sign the right player but overspend by £10m or £20m. 

Good post @jeffschlupp, but no need to join in the Perez hate fest!

Vardy, Daka & no doubt others were cack on their first game of pre-season.

I’ve no problem with Perez as a squad player. He played, deservedly, ahead of Maddison in a  winning Cup Final team, & Rodgers took Iheanacho off before him on the day. He’s got great feet, but he’s physically weak & doesn’t do enough to be a regular starter. But the abuse he gets on here - not from you Jeff - is unreal & unfair. 
This is, like all the others, the Perez thread, right?

[Fox85]

35 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

Will people stop saying we don't want a winger? Nixon, Blackwell, Bourne and Romano have all said we want one this summer. 

 

Winger, wide forward, call it what you like, we need someone to play the position directly ahead of the right full-back. We have not given Albrighton a three-year contract to be playing exclusively narrow systems, nor would we completely nullify one of our best players in Barnes by doing so.

 

Pérez is not very good and nor was Gray and that is why we stepped into the market last summer. The player we got was also not very good and he hasn't been replaced. If Sowah was the first choice answer we'd have seen him in pre-season with the first choice players - we haven't, and at best he will be an impact option, at worst he goes on loan again.

 

Rodgers is not blind. He knows Pérez was shite yesterday just as much as we all do, and he knows he has not had the impact he wanted him to over the course of the two seasons.

 

We haven't signed a winger yet because we haven't agreed a deal for the player we want - it sounds like a Michael Owen quote but it is important to realise that just because we're into the final month of the window, and X player is going to Y club, doesn't mean we are out of time and options.

 

I'd rather them wait to get this right than a) sign the wrong player or b) sign the right player but overspend by £10m or £20m. 

Yet he still continues to play him.

[NasPb]

I have a feeling we'll just go after a cb even though we shouldn't only do so. If this happens just please don't let praet go as he can play rm. Last season he was great before he got injured playing as a rm especially i remember against Burnley. Given that we could even play 442 well I'd even be fine with him out there. Better than Pérez surely 

Edited 1 August 2021 by NasPb

[jeffschlupp]

6 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Good post @jeffschlupp, but no need to join in the Perez hate fest!

Vardy, Daka & no doubt others were cack on their first game of pre-season.

I’ve no problem with Perez as a squad player. He played, deservedly, ahead of Maddison in a  winning Cup Final team, & Rodgers took Iheanacho off before him on the day. He’s got great feet, but he’s physically weak & doesn’t do enough to be a regular starter. But the abuse he gets on here - not from you Jeff - is unreal & unfair. 
This is, like all the others, the Perez thread, right?

I agree he has his uses in the squad - he is not a goals/assists player but he showed when playing regularly in a 4-3-3 in 19-20 that he can contribute to the general play. There is a touch of Okazaki about him, but that's because he literally was the Okazaki replacement in the squad. It is time though that he reduces his minutes and plays second fiddle to someone better.

 

Barnes and a good signing as starters, with Perez/Sowah/Albrighton as cover, is absolutely fine for us this season. Sowah brings pace, Albrighton a more direct option. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

I'd still argue that its our defenisve injuries tjat have cost us top 4 the last two season, we have been 3rd and 4th high scores in the last 2 seasons.

It's certainly not as cut and dry as our weakness out wide has cost us for sure but what has happened is, we've had key injuries both seasons that has resulted in us having to go 3-4-1-2 and have become worse defensively and going forward in the process. Literally the only attack minded player it has benefitted is Iheanacho and we shipped more goals in the process. 

 

The issue is we have no wide attacker anywhere near as capable as Barnes so when we lost him we were so badly exposed in that regard. We also don't have a left sided wing back to play 3-4-1-2 well enough, Thomas is much better teaming up with a winger. Maddison is also worse in a 3-4-1-2 and it really doesn't suit us.

 

I'd argue we need at the very least another winger who can score and assist when needed, that would be great if it was a right winger so we have 2 from the off in the starting XI but if not we need one as back up to Barnes. As a top 4 chasing side it's pretty grim viewing and I find it baffling why a section of our fans try and argue it.

[whoareyaaa]

Nacho should be starting and he links up well with Vardy and Barnes and front three of..   

          

             Vardy/Daka

Barnes                     Nacho

 

That would work very well with Vardy and Daka being used as the main striker.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, whoareyaaa said:

Nacho should be starting and he links up well with Vardy and Barnes and front three of..   

          

             Vardy/Daka

Barnes                     Nacho

 

That would work very well with Vardy and Daka being used as the main striker.

I like this, and it offers great versatility, and we could even suggest that should Barnes or Kel need a rest, those personnel have the experience to cover

             Daka

Vardy.              Kel

 

or if Kel needs a rest

             Vardy

Barnes.            Daka

 

All positions they have played before I think?

[moore_94]

10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I like this, and it offers great versatility, and we could even suggest that should Barnes or Kel need a rest, those personnel have the experience to cover

             Daka

Vardy.              Kel

 

or if Kel needs a rest

             Vardy

Barnes.            Daka

 

All positions they have played before I think?

None of Daka, Vardy or Nacho have played as those winger roles for more than 10 games in their entire careers

 

They may drift that way from their main position as a central striker, but it is completely different having to operate in that position as a main role

[An Sionnach]

Liverpool are a team who do not stick to a rigid pattern up front although Firmino usually stays central . Salah, Mané  and Jota will combine with Robertson and TAA in wide positions but are usually found on the edge of the box. If Vardy remains our central striker, Barnes , Daka and Iheanacho can do something similar with Pereira and Bertrand. They will score their goals in central positions usually and need to get into the box as often as possible. Too often in the past Vardy has been isolated and now  he has lost a little pace he needs support from the others.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, moore_94 said:

None of Daka, Vardy or Nacho have played as those winger roles for more than 10 games in their entire careers

 

They may drift that way from their main position as a central striker, but it is completely different having to operate in that position as a main role

Did I say as wingers? More left/right sided, the wing backs would still provide the true width.

[Vardinio'sCat]

In an uncertain market it is difficult to shift players, so we shouldn't expect to raise that much money but getting wages off the balance sheet is probably just as important..

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Did I say as wingers? More left/right sided, the wing backs would still provide the true width.

Players like Vardy, Daka and Nacho all perform better when they have their own space to work, you play all three and then also use wing backs to provide width you are going to start constricting the space in the forward position that they are able to move in

 

Vardy and Daka aren't players that you can really see dropping off to operate on the edge of box (as Mane and Salah do as such for Liverpool)

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

It's certainly not as cut and dry as our weakness out wide has cost us for sure but what has happened is, we've had key injuries both seasons that has resulted in us having to go 3-4-1-2 and have become worse defensively and going forward in the process. Literally the only attack minded player it has benefitted is Iheanacho and we shipped more goals in the process. 

 

The issue is we have no wide attacker anywhere near as capable as Barnes so when we lost him we were so badly exposed in that regard. We also don't have a left sided wing back to play 3-4-1-2 well enough, Thomas is much better teaming up with a winger. Maddison is also worse in a 3-4-1-2 and it really doesn't suit us.

 

I'd argue we need at the very least another winger who can score and assist when needed, that would be great if it was a right winger so we have 2 from the off in the starting XI but if not we need one as back up to Barnes. As a top 4 chasing side it's pretty grim viewing and I find it baffling why a section of our fans try and argue it.

Argue what? 

[dbtcity]

12 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Liverpool are a team who do not stick to a rigid pattern up front although Firmino usually stays central . Salah, Mané  and Jota will combine with Robertson and TAA in wide positions but are usually found on the edge of the box. If Vardy remains our central striker, Barnes , Daka and Iheanacho can do something similar with Pereira and Bertrand. They will score their goals in central positions usually and need to get into the box as often as possible. Too often in the past Vardy has been isolated and now  he has lost a little pace he needs support from the others.

But Salah and Mane are wingers/ Wide forwards they’re not central strikers… I just don’t get peoples obsession (not just you) with trying to ram a square peg in a round hole! It rarely works

Edited 1 August 2021 by dbtcity

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Players like Vardy, Daka and Nacho all perform better when they have their own space to work, you play all three and then also use wing backs to provide width you are going to start constricting the space in the forward position that they are able to move in

 

Vardy and Daka aren't players that you can really see dropping off to operate on the edge of box (as Mane and Salah do as such for Liverpool)

Yeah, sure you are probably right, but unless we get a right winger, we may need some outside the box thinking this year 

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Yeah, sure you are probably right, but unless we get a right winger, we may need some outside the box thinking this year 

Unfortunately with other targets being signed, and no credible/strong links to any wingers it does look like we are going to be stuck using weaker options or going down the route of square pegs in round holes again, which is just gonna suck

 

At this point I would be happy to take someone like Dan James on loan (and I originally wanted us to go nowhere near him) just so we have that option of an actual fresh right winger

[ronnup]

What I do know is that Ricky P is not a winger. He's so much more comfortable at right back, and just being good at attacking doesn't mean youre a capable winger. He's top tier in his own position, average when he's pushed forward. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, ronnup said:

What I do know is that Ricky P is not a winger. He's so much more comfortable at right back, and just being good at attacking doesn't mean youre a capable winger. He's top tier in his own position, average when he's pushed forward. 

Would you rather the right side as

• Perez
• Ricardo

Or

• Ricardo
• Castagne

And, no, don’t change the options please?  

[DoveValleyFox]

I just hope that we sign a fast, direct right footed winger who can run into space and pick a cross or pass. A slight upgrade on Albrighton,  who can be used as back up or just in his utility role. 

 

Is this not sensible to simply have a quick wide player who just provides that option and which will in turn allow the number 10, striker and Barnes to do their work? By all means swap the formations around as much as he likes but it is just having the option which seems an obvious advantage which we have lacked for several seasons.

 

I am aware that this has been discussed lots but I just wanted to put my opinion forward.

[MGLCFC]

5 minutes ago, DoveValleyFox said:

I just hope that we sign a fast, direct right footed winger who can run into space and pick a cross or pass. A slight upgrade on Albrighton,  who can be used as back up or just in his utility role. 

 

Is this not sensible to simply have a quick wide player who just provides that option and which will in turn allow the number 10, striker and Barnes to do their work? By all means swap the formations around as much as he likes but it is just having the option which seems an obvious advantage which we have lacked for several seasons.

 

I am aware that this has been discussed lots but I just wanted to put my opinion forward.

But this type and quality of player is likely out of our budget range, unfortunately. 

[An Sionnach]

22 minutes ago, ronnup said:

What I do know is that Ricky P is not a winger. He's so much more comfortable at right back, and just being good at attacking doesn't mean youre a capable winger. He's top tier in his own position, average when he's pushed forward. 

Yes but TAA and Robertson are not wingers either but their combinations with Salah and Mané are often very effective. Its really all about being mobile and finding good positions. A long cross winger doesn't suit us we don't have a target man ,we need wide men who will attack the box.

[Ric Flair]

39 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Argue what? 

That it's not a huge problem that needs rectifying. It should have been the number one priority along with a new striker.

[chapero82]

We don’t need one we have Perez