Right Winger

[jeffschlupp]

Just been idly looking at alternative RWs that haven't been mentioned yet.

 

Thoughts on Tino Kadewere at Lyon @Ric Flair?

[An Sionnach]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Hamza is not on 60k a week, no way. 

 

All those fringe U23 players are on the same contracts as before, they'll be loaned out if there's any takers but that isn't a new problem.

 

I don't dispute its difficult hence why the majority of the deadwood can't be gotten rid of or without heavily subsidising their wages. 

 

We've lost Fuchs, Morgan, James, Ünder and added 3 new signings + KDH and Sowah. In terms of squad numbers if we add a RW we are OK for the 25 man PL squad but it'll be a little messy for the EL squad.

 

AFCON properly screws us and we'll have to retain a larger squad than previous seasons as well.

Multiple sources say Hamza is on that pay. In comparison Man U have Seventeen players on over 100 grand a week and three on over 300 grand . Surely this is not sustainable but while TV companies keep buying rights for billions it won't stop.

[Ric Flair]

8 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

I think we will but there'll be a bit of tweaking with the squad. This won't be it.

 

If you need a year on year comparison by the way at this point in the transfer window last year we hadn't signed a player yet. Long way to go.....

 

Oh and hamza is by the way.

Hamza Choudhury is on more than Harvey Barnes, Caglar Soyuncu and Dennis Praet? How?

 

Choudhury's last contract extension was along the same lines as Barnes in his development within the squad and yet Barnes is on nowhere near that. I don't believe it. 

[GlennyFox55]

According to Salary sport we also pay Amartey £57k a week 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

9 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

Just been idly looking at alternative RWs that haven't been mentioned yet.

 

Thoughts on Tino Kadewere at Lyon @Ric Flair?

He's done well switching to the wing from playing as a striker but he's right footed and I'm convinced it's a left footer we are after. Otherwise I'd go and get Sima from Slavia Prague if we want a right footed forward to play wide right. 

[An Sionnach]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hamza Choudhury is on more than Harvey Barnes, Caglar Soyuncu and Dennis Praet? How?

 

Choudhury's last contract extension was along the same lines as Barnes in his development within the squad and yet Barnes is on nowhere near that. I don't believe it. 

Barnes and Soyuncu's contracts are being improved considerably . I think Praet is on over 70 grand actually. Its getting ****** expensive running a top football team.

Edited 26 July 2021 by An Sionnach

[Ric Flair]

Just now, An Sionnach said:

Barnes and Soyuncu's contracts are being improved considerably . I think Praet is on over 70 grand actually.

Yes they both deserve pay rises, the point I was making was Barnes has signed a number of new contracts as he progressed, as did Choudhury but Hamza is supposedly on 60 bags a week? I doubt that, I really do.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hamza Choudhury is on more than Harvey Barnes, Caglar Soyuncu and Dennis Praet? How?

 

Choudhury's last contract extension was along the same lines as Barnes in his development within the squad and yet Barnes is on nowhere near that. I don't believe it. 

Harvey and soyuncu on a similar amount.

 

Praet is on a lot. Needed a lot of persuading to come here.

[UHDrive]

26 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Multiple sources say Hamza is on that pay. In comparison Man U have Seventeen players on over 100 grand a week and three on over 300 grand . Surely this is not sustainable but while TV companies keep buying rights for billions it won't stop.

For the love of God could people stop rambling on about Hamzas Salary. This is his deal when he was progressing tentatively via the development team and into the first team. For some that don't know what that means, it means that he Hamza jumped from £1k per week (assumed) to the below attached (fact). 

 

No one jumps from a development player onto £60k p/w mid season.

 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

2 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

For the love of God could people stop rambling on about Hamzas Salary. This is his deal when he was progressing tentatively via the development team and into the first team. For some that don't know what that means, it means that he Hamza jumped from £1k per week (assumed) to the below attached (fact). 

 

No one jumps from a development player onto £60k p/w mid season.

 

 

You're assuming that's accurate....

[tomfmlcfc]

I've said before, all of the figures you see on these websites are estimates, largely ripped from Football Manager and mostly outdated.

 

I have done the FM research for us for the last 3-and-a-bit years so most of the contract data at City is my estimates. And even estimates is pushing it - in most cases it is guesswork.

 

I did a better explanation here of the process, and in the same thread spoke about Choudhury:

It's been suggested to me before that the football media on the continent is far more agent-reliant for its information than in the UK, hence why you often see foreign press reporting more detailed contract information and the British press usually just report transfer fees before the clubs announce the deals themselves.

 

But just like in Football Manager contracts are not as as simple as basic wages, and one of the most obvious things that is never reported is what the agreed year-on-year wage rise is, or whether there have been private renegotiations without any change to the contract length.

 

I also mentioned the Global Sports Salaries Survey in that thread - in 2019 my figures were about £5k/week off their total for the first team squad (Sporting Intelligence wouldn't give me a breakdown of how they worked out their figures, despite me asking).

Their average first team wage for us was £64,480 - puts into perspective what Choudhury's agent will have been asking for around that time of him signing that new deal...

[UHDrive]

Just now, Chocolate Teapot said:

You're assuming that's accurate....

I rember the info coming out at the time so yeah I am...

[Pliskin]

34 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Multiple sources say Hamza is on that pay. In comparison Man U have Seventeen players on over 100 grand a week and three on over 300 grand . Surely this is not sustainable but while TV companies keep buying rights for billions it won't stop.

Absolutely no chance Hamza is on £60k….. he’s barely kicked a ball and is behind even Mendy…… those sources are Bob.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, tomfmlcfc said:

I've said before, all of the figures you see on these websites are estimates, largely ripped from Football Manager and mostly outdated.

 

I have done the FM research for us for the last 3-and-a-bit years so most of the contract data at City is my estimates. And even estimates is pushing it - in most cases it is guesswork.

 

I did a better explanation here of the process, and in the same thread spoke about Choudhury:

It's been suggested to me before that the football media on the continent is far more agent-reliant for its information than in the UK, hence why you often see foreign press reporting more detailed contract information and the British press usually just report transfer fees before the clubs announce the deals themselves.

 

But just like in Football Manager contracts are not as as simple as basic wages, and one of the most obvious things that is never reported is what the agreed year-on-year wage rise is, or whether there have been private renegotiations without any change to the contract length.

 

I also mentioned the Global Sports Salaries Survey in that thread - in 2019 my figures were about £5k/week off their total for the first team squad (Sporting Intelligence wouldn't give me a breakdown of how they worked out their figures, despite me asking).

Their average first team wage for us was £64,480 - puts into perspective what Choudhury's agent will have been asking for around that time of him signing that new deal...

And the club would have told him to suck his mum. I'll die on this hill, Hamza Choudhury is not on 60 bags a week here.

[kingcarr21]

Im still a massive lover of Albrighton. So seeing him on the team sheet doesnt bother me at all. If we do not sign a RW so be it. Give me that honker of a nose anyday

[UHDrive]

6 minutes ago, tomfmlcfc said:

I've said before, all of the figures you see on these websites are estimates, largely ripped from Football Manager and mostly outdated.

 

I have done the FM research for us for the last 3-and-a-bit years so most of the contract data at City is my estimates. And even estimates is pushing it - in most cases it is guesswork.

 

I did a better explanation here of the process, and in the same thread spoke about Choudhury:

It's been suggested to me before that the football media on the continent is far more agent-reliant for its information than in the UK, hence why you often see foreign press reporting more detailed contract information and the British press usually just report transfer fees before the clubs announce the deals themselves.

 

But just like in Football Manager contracts are not as as simple as basic wages, and one of the most obvious things that is never reported is what the agreed year-on-year wage rise is, or whether there have been private renegotiations without any change to the contract length.

 

I also mentioned the Global Sports Salaries Survey in that thread - in 2019 my figures were about £5k/week off their total for the first team squad (Sporting Intelligence wouldn't give me a breakdown of how they worked out their figures, despite me asking).

Their average first team wage for us was £64,480 - puts into perspective what Choudhury's agent will have been asking for around that time of him signing that new deal...

How can you take the law of averages from a development player moving into the first team sqaud (part way through the season due to injuries in the squad and getting a salary upgrade?) If you remember what happened during that period and the info that came with it then you can discount all of these random salary sites and you are left with fact not fiction.

Edited 26 July 2021 by UHDrive
Factual

[tomfmlcfc]

6 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

How can you take the law of averages from a development player moving into the first team sqaud (part way through the season due to injuries in the squad and getting a salary upgrade? If you remember the what happened during that period and the info that came with it then you can discount all of these random salary sites and you are left with reality.

I think you are misremembering 2018-19. He performed admirably over Christmas for Puel and then at the end of the season for Rodgers. The club likes to tie its young players down early where possible - I recall Chilwell was given a substantial new contract in the summer of 2016 despite having played only once for us. If you'd like one small piece of ITK info from a source I trust, Dan Iversen's new deal, signed when on loan in League One, is worth at least £20k/week to him as I understand it - Luke Thomas and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall signed similar terms last summer I would imagine, and neither were as integrated into the first team as Choudhury was that summer

 

I do recommend having a look at who Choudhury's agents are and who his other clients are, by the way. These things go deeper than one individual player and agent at one time.

 

There are senior players in League One and the bottom six of the Championship on 35k+ and they are not isolated cases, I can assure you.

 

Is 60k/week too high? Perhaps. But it is certainly not far off, especially 2 years on with year-on-year rises. 

Edited 26 July 2021 by tomfmlcfc

[An Sionnach]

Most sites list Vardy and Kasper as our highest paid players on 150 grand a week and I think that is pretty accurate. Maddison is listed at 120 and Youri at 110 and that seems about right. Its those same sites though that put Hamza on 60 so it may seem high but there you are.

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, tomfmlcfc said:

I think you are misremembering 2018-19. He performed admirably over Christmas for Puel and then at the end of the season for Rodgers. The club likes to tie its young players down early where possible - I recall Chilwell was given a substantial new contract in the summer of 2016 despite having played only once for us. If you'd like one small piece of ITK info from a source I trust, Dan Iversen's new deal, signed when on loan in League One, is worth at least £20k/week to him as I understand it - Luke Thomas and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall signed similar terms last summer I would imagine, and neither were as integrated into the first team as Choudhury was that summer

 

I do recommend having a look at who Choudhury's agents are and who his other clients are, by the way. These things go deeper than one individual player and agent at one time.

 

There are senior players in League One and the bottom six of the Championship on 35k+ and they are not isolated cases, I can assure you.

 

Is 60k/week too high? Perhaps. But it is certainly not far off, especially 2 years on with year-on-year rises. 

Harvey Barnes isn't on 60k a week, Choudhury last signed a new deal when at similar stages in their development here. They're both probably on about £40-45k a week, Barnes will sign a new one this summer or coming months as he deserves to be in line with the top band of players on about double that.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Harvey Barnes isn't on 60k a week, Choudhury last signed a new deal when at similar stages in their development here. They're both probably on about £40-45k a week, Barnes will sign a new one this summer or coming months as he deserves to be in line with the top band of players on about double that.

Barnes signed 3 new contracts year after year - hes done pretty well! 

[tomfmlcfc]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Harvey Barnes isn't on 60k a week, Choudhury last signed a new deal when at similar stages in their development here. They're both probably on about £40-45k a week, Barnes will sign a new one this summer or coming months as he deserves to be in line with the top band of players on about double that.

I can't name the source but Barnes is one of the figures I am most confident about - he and Iversen are the only two I happen to have private information about - up to you if you choose to believe me.

 

And yes, I would imagine he will get one and he will probably will double 60k anyway - the club will be well aware of how their wage bill will increase as they continue to improve.

[UHDrive]

Just now, tomfmlcfc said:

I think you are misremembering 2018-19. He performed admirably over Christmas for Puel and then at the end of the season for Rodgers. The club likes to tie its young players down early where possible - I recall Chilwell was given a substantial new contract in the summer of 2016 despite having played only once for us. If you'd like one small piece of ITK info from a source I trust, Dan Iversen's new deal, signed when on loan in League One, is worth at least £20k/week to him as I understand it - Luke Thomas and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall signed similar terms last summer I would imagine, and neither were as integrated into the first team as Choudhury was that summer

 

I do recommend having a look at who Choudhury's agents are and who his other clients are, by the way. These things go deeper than one individual player and agent at one time.

 

There are senior players in League One and the bottom six of the Championship on 35k+ and they are not isolated cases, I can assure you.

I agree that these issues are complicated. Chilwell was different to Choudhury's circumstances because Chilwell was integrated into the first team over two years as opposed to choudhury who was effectively drafted in as an emergency during that winter. 

 

Chilwell in my opinion had more talent that choudhury, just like Thomas and KDH aswell. I'm sure the club have looked at these and many other parameters and based their decisions on that.

 

The club have had longer to assess the other players whether on loan, in the development team or in the first team squad whether playing or training.

 

These figures put choudhury on £9-10k per week and that sounds accurate to me. This would've given him an assumed pay increase of x 10 from the development salary he would've likely been on.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Barnes signed 3 new contracts year after year - hes done pretty well! 

Yes he has but as last reported he's in line for a huge pay rise because his progression in the last 18 months puts him as one of our best players and yet his wages were more of a fringe player. Many papers reported he was on less than 50k a week.

[An Sionnach]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes he has but as last reported he's in line for a huge pay rise because his progression in the last 18 months puts him as one of our best players and yet his wages were more of a fringe player. Many papers reported he was on less than 50k a week.

We forget sometimes what you have to pay to attract and keep a player and it can be truly frightening. Youri is going to have to be offered 180 grand a week I reckon and that only drags up other salaries. How much are we paying Fofana, Daka and Soumaré I wonder. Barnes must jump to 80 or 90 and Wilf will be looking at 100 a week I bet.

[Gravel]

There was me thinking that the topic was hot due to impending reliable news of a new winger instead of baseless wage speculation.

 

Why am I so gullible!?!?