Ian Wright abuse today

[KFS]

1 minute ago, RichMC24 said:

Taking the knee isn’t really working though is it ? 
 

Pretty much making things worse.  

Go on…

[Itsthejoeker]

Just now, RichMC24 said:

Taking the knee isn’t really working though is it ? 
 

Pretty much making things worse.  

I think it’s working perfectly fine, it’s helping many people identify the racists in their midst and those booing are just proving exactly why they’re kneeling.

[SpacedX]

4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Apart from the playing surface...

Luton and Oldham also at the time as I recall

[NAKC20]

I've not read all the posts but we were sat in Block 536 virtually straight above the TV Gantry. The stewarding that we saw was virtually none existent, there were people clearly bringing in bottles of beer to there seats, and tipping it over the front rail, the one steward who was nearest to us was obviously there to watch the match as he was cheering as much as us when Kelechi scored the penalty. Surely there is CCTV covering every seat and these people can be identified, I can even give seat numbers of where some of them where sat.

Overall it was a good day but the stewarding/security was an absolute shambles. We first entered the concourse up the steps near the Hilton Hotel and was not challenged once, think there was 1 steward with a bag size gauge but that was it. We walked around for a while and then 2 of our party went back outside the cordon to get some food from a stall, Not only were they not allowed back in to the concourse with their food but they also had to show their ticket and Covid pass, the question was asked 'we walked in 200 yards down there and nobody checked a thing' the response was 'that's not our problem' When I went through the turnstile to go in I got asked 'are you carrying anything metal' I replied 'No' the reply was 'ok carry on'. People sat 2 rows behind us had full size rucksacks that were clearly over the size that was supposedly allowed into the stadium.

As much as the idiots that did this want kicking out the club (if they do go that is) the whole security issue at Wembley wants a complete overall as that is why they got away with it and think they are big and clever I'm sure.

 

[RichMC24]

3 minutes ago, Itsthejoeker said:

I think it’s working perfectly fine, it’s helping many people identify the racists in their midst and those booing are just proving exactly why they’re kneeling.

Yeah, you’re right.  There’s a lot less racism about now.  

[lcfc_forever]

A few observations (had already posted on people booing taking the knee in another thread)

 

1. Diversity and inclusion is now woven into the fabric of the club, and a key driver of our success. Our owners are Thai and Buddhist - their faith and moral compass has given the club a vision and direction that is an exemplar to the rest of the league. They do all the right things, supporting the community and show a great generosity of spirit. Our players are diverse, with a large proposition from a black or asian background. In fact, there was a frame in the coverage of Soumare, Ihenacho, Amartey and Ndidi, all of whom contributed to our success. Quite frankly, those 'fans' who express racist sentiments are not supporters of the club. They represent the exact opposite of what Leicester City is. 

2. That diversity and inclusion helps attract and retain players to our club. For example, Fofana, was seen to be supporting the local community during Ramadan. It starts from the top with our owners, and the players buy into it. As Kasper put it, the club is like a family and Daka, another black player, is on the record of saying that culture and environment is what attracted him to Leicester.

3. What impact do you think booing taking the knee has on our black players? It's not exactly going to motivate them is it?

4. Today, when you Google "Leicester", the top story is Ian Wright's video. It's brought disrepute to our club, and damaged the progressive reputation that we've worked so hard so build. 

 

I know some will say why are we debating this having just won the Community Shield. I'm actually heartened to see the vast majority of posts here show empathy and anti-discrimination. We need to call out the racists and misunderstandings, not only online but in person as well. Understand people's prejudices and where they are coming from, and then constructively engage them around the facts. 

Edited 8 August 2021 by lcfc_forever

[Dorkingfox]

40 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

👍👍👍👍👍👍

What makes it worse is that most live in a multicultural city and follow a team with very diverse players?

Edited 8 August 2021 by Dorkingfox

[Itsthejoeker]

1 minute ago, RichMC24 said:

Yeah, you’re right.  There’s a lot less racism about now.  

It’s as much about highlighting racism than it is about reducing it. 
 

I’ve been so fed up of late people claiming there’s not a racism problem in this country and glossing over the cracks, the people booing this gesture are making it clear that we all need to do more. 

[lcfcsnow]

I feel like whoever was playing yesterday something was going to be said and post match it would be highlighted to make another point that the knee is needed. It's going to happen every week and just tired of it seems like that and all the commotion that comes with it is taking over from the actual matches now.

[MGLCFC]

1 minute ago, Dorkingfox said:

What makes it worse is that most live in a multicultural city and follow a team with very diverse players?

But living in a diverse city and wanting to be part of that diversity are two different things. Your right as well, as the hypocrisy is that when Tielemans scored the winning goal at Wembley or Nach his penalty yesterday, they idolise them.

[GlennyFox55]

12 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Taking the knee isn’t really working though is it ? 
 

Pretty much making things worse.  

You don’t stop an anti-discrimination gesture because the racists don’t like it. 

[reynard]

We really can't blame alchohol for what happened. Unfortunately the racist behaviour is just a small symptom of a huge underlying problem in this country.  Nationally we need to start with our education system where we have deliberately ignored the majority of our country's past. Just like the German education system came to deal with the country's Nazi past so we need to address our colonial past and the effects it had upon the world.

The idea of white priviledge needs to be properly understood and even acknowledged by white people in the UK.

We all. also, need to understand what lies behind racist's opinions. No one is born a racist, they become one through their background or situations, often based upon fear.

 

We need to be in a position where mainstream politicians can have no need to feel they can say things like this to win over people.

"In scores of our cities and market towns, this country in a short space of time has frankly become unrecognisable,"  "Whether it is the impact on local schools and hospitals, whether it is the fact in many parts of England you don't hear English spoken any more. This is not the kind of community we want to leave to our children and grandchildren."

 

But before all this can be put in place those of us who are angered need to channel that anger into positive action. The majority can force the minority out of the game if it has the will to do so.

[Babylon]

13 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Taking the knee isn’t really working though is it ? 
 

Pretty much making things worse.  

It’s not meant to stop racists there and then, it’s there to make people aware of and discuss the issue. As far as I can see it’s working perfectly.

[StanSP]

12 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Taking the knee isn’t really working though is it ? 
 

Pretty much making things worse.  

Ah let's just all give up in the fight for equality then.

 

Anyway, I think it is working. You've got incidents like yesterday being hounded out and called out. Previously, didn't happen so much. Or if it did, it'd be passed over. Clubs, associations, organisations, employees are taking far more notice of what goes on these days and responding to it (in the main) in a positive way. So taking the knee whilst it hasn't totally eradicated racism and inequality (yet), it's at least helping identify those who still may hold racist views and holding those people accountable for those actions.

 

E.G the club have contacted Ian Wright to help identify the individuals and perhaps ban them for life (ideally). Would that have happened a few seasons ago? Certainly not about a decade ago at least. 

 

I really can't fathom how it's making things worse. Whilst some incidents are heinous and totally abhorrent, at least it's being called out much more.

 

I do also like that the boos right at the start do get drowned out by applause and support. It's audibly noticeable. 

[Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Yeah, you’re right.  There’s a lot less racism about now.  

This is a very, very naive and stupid comment to make. I suspect that you've put very little thought into what you're saying before you've made yourself look like a right plonker here.

 

So you're suggesting that taking the knee is making a situation worse and that levels of racist attacks of any kind were actually at lower rates before any of this started? 

 

Racism has been a problem for a very long time. Movements such as taking the knee, as part of any anti racism campaign, can't and don't "fix" the problem. The problem is, and always has been, there. But what it does do is highlight it and gets people talking about it. The only way to fix it is to educate people, if we're talking about it the more people can be drawn to it, the more people can be educated. 

Edited 8 August 2021 by Jimbo

[reynard]

15 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Taking the knee isn’t really working though is it ? 
 

Pretty much making things worse.  

Sometimes things have to get worse to get better. What do you suggest they should do as an alternative? As far as I can tell it is at least opening up discussions and debates and at the very least helping those who don't acknowledge there is a wider problem within society to at least realise there is.

[Livid]

1 minute ago, NAKC20 said:

I've not read all the posts but we were sat in Block 536 virtually straight above the TV Gantry. The stewarding that we saw was virtually none existent, there were people clearly bringing in bottles of beer to there seats, and tipping it over the front rail, the one steward who was nearest to us was obviously there to watch the match as he was cheering as much as us when Kelechi scored the penalty. Surely there is CCTV covering every seat and these people can be identified, I can even give seat numbers of where some of them where sat.

Overall it was a good day but the stewarding/security was an absolute shambles. We first entered the concourse up the steps near the Hilton Hotel and was not challenged once, think there was 1 steward with a bag size gauge but that was it. We walked around for a while and then 2 of our party went back outside the cordon to get some food from a stall, Not only were they not allowed back in to the concourse with their food but they also had to show their ticket and Covid pass, the question was asked 'we walked in 200 yards down there and nobody checked a thing' the response was 'that's not our problem' When I went through the turnstile to go in I got asked 'are you carrying anything metal' I replied 'No' the reply was 'ok carry on'. People sat 2 rows behind us had full size rucksacks that were clearly over the size that was supposedly allowed into the stadium.

As much as the idiots that did this want kicking out the club (if they do go that is) the whole security issue at Wembley wants a complete overall as that is why they got away with it and think they are big and clever I'm sure.

 

The stewarding down there is questionable. 
 

I took a official city flag down to the cup final. 

 

Steward 1 ‘No flags allowed put it in your pocket’ Puts it in pocket. 

 

Steward 2 Setting off metal detector and empties pockets  ‘Can’t bring that flag in you’re going to have to leave it here’ 

 

Looks at Supervisor,  ‘Seriously he, points at Steward 1, told me to put it in my pocket’ ‘That’s fine come on in’ 

It’s a mixture of total jobsworths and don’t give a feck. 

[Phil Bowman]

16 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Taking the knee isn’t really working though is it ? 
 

Pretty much making things worse.  

Isn’t working?

I thought it was intended to draw attention to racism. It seems to be doing a very good job of that. Also of identifying quite a lot of racists.

 

And I don’t see that it’s making anything worse.

[Kevin Russell]

1 hour ago, drumbeat said:

You're right. It isn't. Not in theory anyway. In practice, I dunno. I'd wager there's a high correlation, let's put it that way. I doubt many (if any) are booing 'taking the knee' as anti- Marxist statement.

 

I think there's a danger in overextending the logical possibility. It's crediting those booing with something they perhaps don't possess - and if they did, is booing really the way to register your intellectual opposition to a political ideology?

 

There is a conflation of issues here. There's taking the knee as a anti-racists gesture (which the players are doing, and simply that) and incorrectly  (IMHO) associating with it some kind of broader political aim or motivation. 

 

Taking the knee is simply an anti-racist statement. Don't over intellectualise it. Drop your theoretical opposition to it and recognise it for what it is. Opposing a simp!e anti-racist statement almost by definition makes you racist. 

That makes a lot of sense, but I don’t necessarily agree. I do think a lot of people who boo are racist, but I think some people are inclined to jeer because they feel it is not the right context for political statements. 
 

I don’t agree with people that boo, but I feel uncomfortable when people are told they can’t have an opinion. When some people disagree with taking the knee and they are instantly disregarded as racist knuckle-draggers - I don’t think they all are.

Allowing people to express opinions and then debating them is much more sensible in my opinion. I don’t agree with a previous poster who said you can’t educate some - I’m actually shocked by the extent of the contempt for others who don’t share a certain opinion. 
 

Many people have been converted from extreme political views whether facist or fundamentalist or others. I am positive that there is more good than bad in most people and if their voice is heard then they are more likely to engage in the debates that ultimately lead them to change their opinions.
 

 

[ARTY_FOX]

Can they ban them from travelling abroad when we're playing in Europe? 

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

22 minutes ago, Dorkingfox said:

What makes it worse is that most live in a multicultural city and follow a team with very diverse players?

Exactly. Though there should be zero tolerance wherever you live. 

Edited 8 August 2021 by Cadno'r Cymoedd

[Heskey2011]

Need to identify and shame these people, mug shot posters with not welcome in Leicestershire all round the KP.

[yorkie1999]

7 minutes ago, Scanchez said:

Yeah, as an Irish person myself there's nothing better for me than being called an Irish c**t.

 

Absolutely love it. Great banter.

 

Idiot.

 

 

Nobodies calling you an Irish c**t though, not defending anyone but I think the point is that there’s a subtle difference between calling someone a cvnt because they’re Irish and calling someone whose Irish an cvnt. Could have come from Cornwall and they’d still be a cvnt. Whether they’re a cvnt or not is another argument.

  This thing about footballers saying they don’t support the blm by taking the knee is another confusing issue. Correct me if I’m wrong but I seem to remember that players had Black Lives Matter instead of their name and wore  blm badges on their shirts last year and it was only when the association with the BLM was being talked about and the BLM were saying that sports people were supporting them that  they decided to drop wearing those things. Trouble is, that association with the BLM has continued whether anyone likes it or not. Maybe they should have created a different gesture in support of anti racism.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Nobodies calling you an Irish c**t though, not defending anyone but I think the point is that there’s a subtle difference between calling someone a cvnt because they’re Irish and calling someone whose Irish an cvnt. Could have come from Cornwall and they’d still be a cvnt. Whether they’re a cvnt or not is another argument.

  This thing about footballers saying they don’t support the blm by taking the knee is another confusing issue. Correct me if I’m wrong but I seem to remember that players had Black Lives Matter instead of their name and wore  blm badges on their shirts last year and it was only when the association with the BLM was being talked about and the BLM were saying that sports people were supporting them that  they decided to drop wearing those things. Trouble is, that association with the BLM has continued whether anyone likes it or not. Maybe they should have created a different gesture in support of anti racism.

More bollocks. 

[Guest MarshallForEngland]

1 hour ago, GingerrrFox said:

I’m sorry but any credibility you may have had in your attempt to excuse Neanderthals booing an anti-racism gesture was lost when you came out with:

 

“People have a lot of emotional investment in their football teams; if they care about them scoring or playing well etc, they care about them getting on their knees.” 

 

Genuinely just read that back and have a word with yourself. People have a lot of emotional investment in their football team so they care about them getting on their knees? You genuinely think that is a valid argument as to why people have the right to boo an anti racism gesture? 
 

You are quite clearly entrenched in your beliefs, you make sweeping statements such as:

 

“none of us should presume to have the moral authority to decide who is a "decent human being" and who isn't. You appear to see yourself as a good guy representing the side of good guys, and those who don't agree with you as the bad guys.”

 

I don’t claim to be a good guy vs bad guys but I’ll tell you what makes someone a decent person, not booing an anti-racism gesture that the manager of the England football team/the manager of our football club/the players of our football club have all come out and said has no political connotations. These people still booing don’t want to hear that though do they? They need to have the veiled excuse of there being “political issues” to try and hide the fact that they hold racist views or beliefs. 
 

Thankfully, judging by the comments on this thread, people that hold your view point are vastly in the minority. 

"Genuinely just read that back and have a word with yourself. People have a lot of emotional investment in their football team so they care about them getting on their knees? You genuinely think that is a valid argument as to why people have the right to boo an anti racism gesture?"

 

My comment was in direct response to your suggestion that because fans are not themselves being asked to kneel, they shouldn't care about it. I was pointing out that the very nature of the relationship between football players and football fans is that the the latter care very much what the former do. The fans don't kick the ball either, but they care about the outcome of matches, the trajectory of a player's career, the rules of the game etc. Perhaps some people find the idea of kneeling demeaning and submissive, and do not want to see respected footballers in such a subservient pose in the service of what they see as a pernicious ideology.

 

"You are quite clearly entrenched in your beliefs, you make sweeping statements such as:"

 

“none of us should presume to have the moral authority to decide who is a "decent human being" and who isn't. You appear to see yourself as a good guy representing the side of good guys, and those who don't agree with you as the bad guys.”

 

I don’t claim to be a good guy vs bad guys but I’ll tell you what makes someone a decent person, not booing an anti-racism gesture that the manager of the England football team/the manager of our football club/the players of our football club have all come out and said has no political connotations. These people still booing don’t want to hear that though do they? They need to have the veiled excuse of there being “political issues” to try and hide the fact that they hold racist views or beliefs. "

 

I think this is a good example of confession through projection. The part you quoted doesn't support your claim that I am "entrenched" in my beliefs, if anything it demonstrates quite the opposite. And everything you said afterwards suggests that you yourself possess an unreasonable level of moral certainty that you are a decent person and nobody who disagrees with you could possibly do so without being a bad person. I cannot relate to the arrogance of believing that you've got every moral question figured out and have the certainty and authority to divide the population based on your view of who is evil and who is righteous. I am open to ideas that counter my own, I don't subscribe to a particular orthodoxy and my viewpoint can adapt to new information. I believe you are mistaken in a lot of what you say, but I don't believe that makes you a bad person, a knuckle-dragger, "scum" etc. We just disagree I believe debate is the only way forward.

 

Please entertain the idea that not everyone you disagree with is a bad person, not everyone is a racist, and that it is possible to have a difference of opinion without accusing your opponents of having sinister motives that only those who think like you are morally literate enough to recognise and avoid.

Edited 8 August 2021 by MarshallForEngland