Ian Wright abuse today

[RichMC24]

31 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

This is a very, very naive and stupid comment to make. I suspect that you've put very little thought into what you're saying before you've made yourself look like a right plonker here.

 

So you're suggesting that taking the knee is making a situation worse and that levels of racist attacks of any kind were actually at lower rates before any of this started? 

 

Racism has been a problem for a very long time. Movements such as taking the knee, as part of any anti racism campaign, can't and don't "fix" the problem. The problem is, and always has been, there. But what it does do is highlight it and gets people talking about it. The only way to fix it is to educate people, if we're talking about it the more people can be drawn to it, the more people can be educated. 

Same old, same old… if you don’t agree with me, you are stupid.  
 

around and around we go.  
 

Many people on this thread are knee-taking enthusiasts shouting racist at anyone who questions it.  It’s not a debate. 

Most people booing the knee-taking are not knuckle dragging racists and are sick of being labelled as such.

 

Personally I don’t care for taking the knee, but I wouldn’t boo it.  
 

it’s not making anything better, it’s just stoking more and more division.  
 

Footballers taking the knee in solidarity against racism and equality whilst trying to qualify for a World Cup in Qatar is ridiculous.  
 

[Itsthejoeker]

 

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

I realise you are trying to argue fairly, so this comment is not personally aimed at you, but...

 

For the squillionth time....people can have any opinion they like - the consequence of it is that the rest of us can also express our opinion that their opinion stinks. If one wishes to complain about having an opinion challenged, they should think twice about how they came to that opinion in the first place.

Thank you. 
 

Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequence. 
 

If you out yourself as an ignorant racist you shouldn’t feel surprised when people think you’re a twat or when you lose your job for abusing black footballers on a public forum. 
 

You can have an opinion on whatever you like, and we have the right to judge you and form our own opinions based on that opinion. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, RichMC24 said:

 

Most people booing the knee-taking are not knuckle dragging racists and are sick of being labelled as such.
 

How on earth do you claim to know this?

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

Just now, RichMC24 said:

Same old, same old… if you don’t agree with me, you are stupid.  
 

around and around we go.  
 

Many people on this thread are knee-taking enthusiasts shouting racist at anyone who questions it.  It’s not a debate. 

Most people booing the knee-taking are not knuckle dragging racists and are sick of being labelled as such.

 

Personally I don’t care for taking the knee, but I wouldn’t boo it.  
 

it’s not making anything better, it’s just stoking more and more division.  
 

Footballers taking the knee in solidarity against racism and equality whilst trying to qualify for a World Cup in Qatar is ridiculous.  
 

Why do you think they boo it then? 

[demon_dog]

I probably have a much more simplistic view of all this. That is to treat all people the way you yourself wish to be treated. 

No matter what race, colour, gender or sexuality you are. 

I wish people to be nice to me, don't you wish the same? 

[RumbleFox]

6 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I realise you are trying to argue fairly, so this comment is not personally aimed at you, but...

 

For the squillionth time....people can have any opinion they like - the consequence of it is that the rest of us can also express our opinion that their opinion stinks. If one wishes to complain about having an opinion challenged, they should think twice about how they came to that opinion in the first place.

Bang on. No one is silencing anyone, no platforming them or saying they can’t have an opinion. They are arguing AGAINST an opinion. It’s an important point and well made by yourself. X 

Edited 8 August 2021 by RumbleFox

[Itsthejoeker]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

How on earth do you claim to know this?

Because he boos it but isn’t wanting to admit it on a public forum and doesn’t see himself as a knuckle dragging racist. 

[peach0000]

Just now, sdb said:

People keep saying this. Am I going crazy or was there not a mass security breach at this exact venue about a month ago? Cannot believe it.

That's what is so bizarre. It was the most relaxed security I've ever witnessed at match and I've been to hundreds of Leicester away games and plenty all over the world. Wembley normally have some of the heaviest security of anywhere but there was just none. It seemed to me that there was a heavier police presence than you may normally expect in the surrounding area, so the Met stepped it up but it seems to me that the FA/Wembley stepped their security down

The worst part I witnessed was when that kid ran on the pitch and there was only one steward anywhere near and he didn't even notice for a good 10 seconds and when he did he just let the kid make his own way off the pitch. When does that ever happen? There was more security at the Villareal game last week!

[Haywood_6]

4 minutes ago, Raj said:

What would you suggest???

 

Kick it out hasnt worked.

 

Kick out racism hasnt eradicated it.

 

Taking the knee offends the knuckle draggers.

 

T shirts worn by posters is just tokenism.

Trying to get more non white fans into games to dilute the racism is classed as favoritism.

 

Black players talking about stuff  should just get on with it because they get paid a shed load of money and should accept it.

 

Young white players buying houses for their mum is so so loving yet when a black player does it hes showing off (This was a Man city youth player story I think a few years ago- someone can correct me if I'm wrong?)

 

Getting more black ex players as pundits is "Why do THEY get the jobs...they cant speak properly"( Alex Scott getting grief this week cos of the way she talks...cos ALL white ex players talk like the queen innit?????)

 

Seriously WHAT can be done...I'm genuinely  interested?

Real solutions can't be brought about without affecting the interests of the powerful. Economic inequality is the primary reason for racism

 

Racism and mental health are meaningful goals but they will never be addressed by gestures.

 

Taking the knee might make people feel good about not being racist but it doesn't actually address the problem

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, Itsthejoeker said:

Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequence. 

^

 

[LCFCbwoi]

9 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

I think the fact that at the beginning it clearly was to do with BLM is very hard to deny. Sports commentators literally said the words "Black Lives Matter" while they were doing it, those words were on the screen during a lot of broadcasts, as well as on display in stadiums. "Black Lives Matter" rallies in which those words were chanted became heavily associated with taking the knee as videos emerged of police and even members of the public being cajoled into getting down on one knee. BLM was trending on social media at the time and a lot of people were red-faced when it became apparent that the organisation had some pretty questionable ideological objectives such as dismantling the nuclear family and abolishing the police. Now everybody is being asked to split hairs and accept pretend that none of this ever happened, even acting as if those who make the connection are themselves the unreasonable ones.

 

The other side to this is that for many people, BLM is just an organised faction of a broader ideology which has grown in numbers and confidence in the past few years. Many people reject this ideology and don't want it to take over the institutions they hold dear. Even without official connection to BLM, it still makes a lot of people feel uneasy. To me, when I see everybody getting down on one knee, it reminds me of religious congregations raising their hands in prayer. It looks more like a performative ritual which has almost reached an almost sacral status. I have no problem with people expressing their religious beliefs, but if a particular religious ritual became an established part of football I would feel a bit uneasy, even if those doing it said it was for a good cause. I'd feel even more uneasy if it became apparent that most players were simply not able to say no to it even if privately they didn't want to do it. That's just my view, I understand others may have their own reasons for supporting or not supporting the gesture and I respect everybody's right to express what they feel about, booing included.

 

By the way yes, if you want to boo the national flag, go for it. That's your choice, you have the freedom to do that. I wouldn't think it meant you were seditious, treasonous, monstrous, potentially violent, should be banned from games etc. It's your choice and more power to you.

Jesus Christ, people are still using the BLM argument to justify racists are they? It’s an anti-racism gesture and it always has been, you’d think after the Euros final that fans would learn why these players take the knee but our fans are still thick as pigs s***.

 

and boo the national flag? Are you just trying to justify the boos by including something never happens, if you saw people booing the ‘flag’ as the players came out onto the pitch, you’d think it’s as strange as people booing the knee.

[Jimbo]

9 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

I think the fact that at the beginning it clearly was to do with BLM is very hard to deny. Sports commentators literally said the words "Black Lives Matter" while they were doing it, those words were on the screen during a lot of broadcasts, as well as on display in stadiums. "Black Lives Matter" rallies in which those words were chanted became heavily associated with taking the knee as videos emerged of police and even members of the public being cajoled into getting down on one knee. BLM was trending on social media at the time and a lot of people were red-faced when it became apparent that the organisation had some pretty questionable ideological objectives such as dismantling the nuclear family and abolishing the police. Now everybody is being asked to split hairs and accept pretend that none of this ever happened, even acting as if those who make the connection are themselves the unreasonable ones.

 

The other side to this is that for many people, BLM is just an organised faction of a broader ideology which has grown in numbers and confidence in the past few years. Many people reject this ideology and don't want it to take over the institutions they hold dear. Even without official connection to BLM, it still makes a lot of people feel uneasy. To me, when I see everybody getting down on one knee, it reminds me of religious congregations raising their hands in prayer. It looks more like a performative ritual which has almost reached an almost sacral status. I have no problem with people expressing their religious beliefs, but if a particular religious ritual became an established part of football I would feel a bit uneasy, even if those doing it said it was for a good cause. I'd feel even more uneasy if it became apparent that most players were simply not able to say no to it even if privately they didn't want to do it. That's just my view, I understand others may have their own reasons for supporting or not supporting the gesture and I respect everybody's right to express what they feel about, booing included.

 

By the way yes, if you want to boo the national flag, go for it. That's your choice, you have the freedom to do that. I wouldn't think it meant you were seditious, treasonous, monstrous, potentially violent, should be banned from games etc. It's your choice and more power to you.

Do you want to explain what you mean by this? Because you're looking like you're trying to find ways to back up your argument.

 

I mean, take Kel yesterday after his goal. Did he not get down on his knees to pray, as he does after all of his goals. Fofana was highlighted last season for being afforded a little extra time in games to take on fluid and food because of his full participation in Ramadan. 

If you can ignore certain things that seemingly do not bother you because they don't go against what you believe then how come you insist on highlighting an apparent link to a polictal movement that has long been severed?

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Itsthejoeker said:

Because he boos it but isn’t wanting to admit it on a public forum and doesn’t see himself as a knuckle dragging racist. 

That may or may not be the case - I just cannot abide such sweeping statements on behalf of a community someone claims to speak for.

[LCFCbwoi]

10 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

My apologies, I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean what form of protest would it be acceptable for BAME communities to engage in, or what form of protest against taking the knee would be approved by BAME communities? Or another meaning?

I think he’s saying, telling minorities who receive RACISM, how they should be allowed to protest this RACISM, is pretty weird.

[Lcfc82]

3 minutes ago, Itsthejoeker said:

Because he boos it but isn’t wanting to admit it on a public forum and doesn’t see himself as a knuckle dragging racist. 

He’s literally said in the post that he doesn’t boo it ?

[Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Same old, same old… if you don’t agree with me, you are stupid.  
 

around and around we go.  
 

Many people on this thread are knee-taking enthusiasts shouting racist at anyone who questions it.  It’s not a debate. 

Most people booing the knee-taking are not knuckle dragging racists and are sick of being labelled as such.

 

Personally I don’t care for taking the knee, but I wouldn’t boo it.  
 

it’s not making anything better, it’s just stoking more and more division.  
 

Footballers taking the knee in solidarity against racism and equality whilst trying to qualify for a World Cup in Qatar is ridiculous.  
 

That part I agree with

 

I wasn't calling you stupid for not agreeing with me, Iwas calling you stupid for making a stupid comment. You were suggesting that racism wasn't a problem befoee and now it is, and getting worse. It isn't. It's always been there and it's just being highlighted more now because people are aware of it. That's what campaigns are all about, and taking the knee is part of that.

 

As I said earlier, not all people booing are racist, but all racists are booing.

 

[LiberalFox]

Starting point is if we can agree that racially abusing Ian Wright isn't acceptable and people who have done that should be banned from attending games and deservedly so. As for booing taking the knee then I think it should be unacceptable. There are plenty of sports where you'd be ejected for that kind of behaviour. If you don't like taking the knee then keep silent. If you can't handle that then don't go. 

[Raj]

6 minutes ago, Haywood_6 said:

Real solutions can't be brought about without affecting the interests of the powerful. Economic inequality is the primary reason for racism

 

Racism and mental health are meaningful goals but they will never be addressed by gestures.

 

Taking the knee might make people feel good about not being racist but it doesn't actually address the problem

Your just bumbling.

Get to the point,  if there is one.

[filbertway]

4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

No - in your eyes what is the best form of protest that BAME communities should use? If taking the knee hasn't worked, any all the other alternatives, what is acceptable for you?

It'd probably do good if the players went to schools and talked to kids about discrimination. 

 

Just doing something. It's annoying being preached to by players that in the main are doing something because its seen as the right thing and easy to do. I'm fairly confident that its achieving absolutely nothing in the fight against racism. 

 

I suppose it's the insincerity of it all. Same as people that jump on a band wagon and change their profile pictures for 24 hours and start being preachy about a cause that theyve never spoke about before.

 

I'd back the players getting out there and talking to people. If they genuinely feel it's their place and responsibilty to help reduce discrimination. 

 

Also every single player taking the knee should be nowhere near next years world cup if they're sincerely against discrimination.

 

Someone got it right above though, theres no need to boo. Just stand in silence, roll your eyes if you must

 

I'd genuinely love to see the players making a proper effort rather than being told by the media team to read lines for a video or performing simple gestures that take no effort.

 

Imagine a little kid if Kasper came in and had a 5-10 minute chat with the classes. Thatd stick with them for life and if theyve got knuckle dragging parents stuck in the 80s, the kid may start to think "Ahh but Kasper said that's not right"

 

That reply got away from me a bit and I'm not even sure if I addressed you're question man, so sorry if I havent

 

[4everfox]

 

What this thread reads like. Grow up.

[Haydos]

5 hours ago, Cujek said:

You are on to a loser here dude, far far to many communists, disguised as liberals posting on this forum.

 

Taking the knee should stop, it's just making the problem worse.

 

Racism should stop it's dumb.

 

Racism won't stop by millionaires taking a knee and virtue signalling.

 

Racism stops when people stop seeing race as an identifier, we all one race, the human race.

 

Stop allowing the powers that be drive a wedge between by making stuff up that don't exist.

 

Normal people agree that racism should stop.

 

 

Why go out of your way to boo it? It's a harmless gesture that doesn't affect you.

 

Do you really think the people booing it are big on racial equality and just think it's been done in the wrong way?

[LCFCbwoi]

10 minutes ago, RichMC24 said:

Same old, same old… if you don’t agree with me, you are stupid.  
 

around and around we go.  
 

Many people on this thread are knee-taking enthusiasts shouting racist at anyone who questions it.  It’s not a debate. 

Most people booing the knee-taking are not knuckle dragging racists and are sick of being labelled as such.

 

Personally I don’t care for taking the knee, but I wouldn’t boo it.  
 

it’s not making anything better, it’s just stoking more and more division.  
 

Footballers taking the knee in solidarity against racism and equality whilst trying to qualify for a World Cup in Qatar is ridiculous.  
 

Footballers taking the knee in solidarity against racism whilst trying to qualify for the World Cup in Qatar is so funny ahahahahahahah.

 

They’re not full time activists you know? Racism doesn’t only effect them you know?

what does that statement even mean? 
 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, 4everfox said:

 

What this thread reads like. Grow up.

Ironic you tell people to 'grow up' when that's exactly what people booing a gesture to promote equality should do... 

[GlennyFox55]

Was this from above the tv gantry or below on tier 1?

[SpacedX]

7 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

 - I just cannot abide such sweeping statements on behalf of a community someone claims to speak for.

Acting as the voice of this forum, many of us would agree.