Ian Wright abuse today

[Guest MarshallForEngland]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Or, to put it another way, ignorant people don't like being shown to be ignorant.

This is a bit sanctimonious and rather inquisitorial I must say. The same argument has been made by religious zealots and ideologues many times throughout history when they attempt to shame others who reject their doctrine. If people don't agree with the prevailing orthodoxy, it's because they're ignorant, stupid, immoral, sinful, evil etc. As a species we've tried this sort of thing before unfortunately and it never ends well.

[LCFCbwoi]

2 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Aside the booing of the knee issue. I just can’t believe that people would be racist to Ian Wright? I mean Ian Wright the ex England footballer who is probably one of the most patriotic men I’ve ever seen talk about the England national football team. You can see how proud he is to have represented England and what it means to him personally. Plus saying all that he’s also actually been one of the biggest neutral supporters of our club in the media for a long time. He always says how much he likes watching us play and how much respect he has for us a club. 

How can you even shout or mouth racist abuse to him?

That’s the most ridiculous thing about racism, black people/players shouldn’t have to be at the pinnacle at whatever they do or prove to people a reason why they shouldn’t receive racist abuse. 

I know that’s not what you’re getting across at all, but i do believe that whether your a footballer who has raised money to feed 1000s of kids in this country or a repeating offender who’s in and out of prison, you shouldn’t be expected to receive abuse based on the colour of your skin.

[KFS]

5 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Could ‘Cultural Marxism’ or ‘Race Communism’ sound anymore like ‘Jewish Bolshevism’? I’m not one to say ‘being right wing = fascist’ but blaming a canal of shadowy allying with minority groups to subjugate the /British/ is exactly what NSDAP in Germany used to both excitement racial hatred and make any political opinion left of the right look evil so he could easily root out and the urge political opponents. 
 

It seems like a very toxic ideology to allow into the British mainstream.
 

I’m not even going to try to explain how millionaire footballers who make a lot of money from a capitalist system would want to support a change into a Marxist system.

Classic case of our culture trying to over complicate something while hiding away from addressing a very simple yet awkward topic.

 

Great post.

Edited 8 August 2021 by KFS

[filbertway]

9 minutes ago, LCFCbwoi said:

So what your basically saying is ‘hey black players, go out and teach people why they shouldn’t be racist towards you because taking the knee is too much of an empty gesture’?.

 

People talk about the players taking the knee as if every team is made up of white players, with only white fans. Look who scored our winner yesterday? How can you try to suggest the players are essentially virtue signalling when we had 5 black players start for

us and 3 come off the bench? What point are they trying to prove to people?

I dont know what this means. Stan asked for alternatives that would be better and I suggested one.

 

I 100% think that would achieve more than going on a knee over and over again.

 

The first time they did it I got goosebumps, it was such a powerful image. Now it does nothing for me

 

In my opinion, it's an easy option the league and clubs are taking.

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, MarshallForEngland said:

This is a bit sanctimonious and rather inquisitorial I must say. The same argument has been made by religious zealots and ideologues many times throughout history when they attempt to shame others who reject their doctrine. If people don't agree with the prevailing orthodoxy, it's because they're ignorant, stupid, immoral, sinful, evil etc. As a species we've tried this sort of thing before unfortunately and it never ends well.

With respect, you're using your command of language to muddy the waters here. Please don't come at me with 'sanctimonious', you're on very thin ice there.

 

Racist abuse is ignorance, booing a peaceful gesture is ignorance. And trying to speak for anyone but yourself is the height of arrogance.

[woznotwos]

3 minutes ago, Raj said:

As I asked earlier, which no one yet has answered, WHATS YOUR ACTION PLAN??

WHATS YOUR PREVENTATIVE  ACTION FOR THIS ISSUE???..?

Seriously , i hope nearby fans let them know that they were out of order at the time. One good preventative measure would be to have them sucking there dinner through a straw waiting for new dentures.

[LCFCbwoi]

2 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

This is a bit sanctimonious and rather inquisitorial I must say. The same argument has been made by religious zealots and ideologues many times throughout history when they attempt to shame others who reject their doctrine. If people don't agree with the prevailing orthodoxy, it's because they're ignorant, stupid, immoral, sinful, evil etc. As a species we've tried this sort of thing before unfortunately and it never ends well.

Using big and ‘smart’ words doesn’t mean you argument is any more valid you know? 

[STUHILL]

Like I said yesterday, the one thing I hold on to, is they are in the minority and we are the majority and hopefully Ian Wright and the players focus on that too.

 

For those who support the booing of our players taking the knee, I would like to see clubs give them the opportunity to walk from their seats onto the pitch in front of 30,000 supporters and stand in front our players, look them in the eyes and boo them to their faces as they kneel in unity against racism. 

 

The one thing I do know about these types of people, is they are usually cowards. 

 

Majority > Minority

Love > Hate

...if that type of thinking makes me "woke", then f*** it! Call me what you want. 

[StanSP]

Just now, filbertway said:

I dont know what this means. Stan asked for alternatives that would be better and I suggested one.

 

I 100% think that would achieve more than going on a knee over and over again.

 

The first time they did it I got goosebumps, it was such a powerful image. Now it does nothing for me

 

In my opinion, it's an easy option the league and clubs are taking.

Sorry I did see the reply.

 

I think that's a great educational option and I wouldn't be against it. But on a grander scale, and to give it a global status and reach, taking the knee on a stage (Premier League platform) gives it the recognition it deserves.

 

I think for some people it's beyond reach. I'm all for educating kids and inspiring them to do right in the world. It's their parents or elder relatives that are probably the issue and they're the lost causes.

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, Itsthejoeker said:

Because they’re too ignorant to acknowledge their own ignorance, an endless loop of stupidness. 

taking this to a useable level, I think we should all ask ourselves how racist we are.  I know for sure that I am. It’s not a malicious racism but it’s engrained into me. I assume it’s ‘social conditioning’ from the period I grew up in. I just try to do whatever I can to minimise it and hope that one day it won’t be there but I reckon that will be due to dementia ! 

i would think I’m not that unusual in my generation …….

 

[4everfox]

1 minute ago, KFS said:

Need a little bit more from you than this weak meme, mate. What’s your point and perspective on all this then?

I'm in favour of players taking the knee, it promotes awareness for a genuine global issue, and I don't see the point in booing when players do it, it's not hurting anyone. People that can't resist booing are surely racist, and any "fan" that racially abuses anybody should be banished from football forever. But, I have seen a lot of people labelled as racist on this thread without actually saying anything remotely racist, just stating why they don't approve of the BLM movement. It's not very nice to read, in my opinion.

[Guest MarshallForEngland]

5 minutes ago, LCFCbwoi said:

But that’s the issue? If you take the players taking the knee personally, then you have some underlying issues that need to be addressed. Why would anyone have an issue with an anti-racism message when we clearly have an issue with racism in this country? How insecure can be? There’s a reason the majority of people applaud it after the boos.

1. Some people reject the claim that it is an anti-racism message. The ideology associated with this gesture, and more broadly the constant discussion around race and fixation on skin colour, puts race at the forefront of every conversation. Many people, me included, believe that it is racist to constantly focus on skin colour and that the end goal is for race to be a non-defining characteristic like any other aspect of someone's physical appearance. For brevity, I'll draw a straight line between those two ideas: I am against racism, and therefore I am against taking the knee. Is it ok if I call everyone who disagrees with me a racist? Scum? Neanderthal? Ignorant? Knuckle-dragger? I don't think so.

 

2. Following on from the previous point, some people might reject the claim that we have an issue with racism in this country. It doesn't reflect what most of us have observed in our lives. Saying something racist in virtually any social context will be met with derision and probably anger. The MLK "content of character" doctrine has been more or less universally adopted by society as a whole. The fact that individuals exist who don't believe in it, or the fact that incidents happen in which people say racist things, does not disprove this. I actually think taking the knee and the race-centric "social justice" movements more broadly are undoing that progress.

[LCFCbwoi]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I dont know what this means. Stan asked for alternatives that would be better and I suggested one.

 

I 100% think that would achieve more than going on a knee over and over again.

 

The first time they did it I got goosebumps, it was such a powerful image. Now it does nothing for me

 

In my opinion, it's an easy option the league and clubs are taking.

I’ll repeat, black players should never have to

go into schools and teach kids why they shouldn’t be racist. That’s not their job at all.

 

It might not do anything for you but taking the knee isn’t there to reduce racism. Its there to

keep It at the forefront because it’s still a massive issue. Its not an easy option when the players want to continue doing it, this is a players led action which was fore-fronted by our greatest ever captain ffs. 

[KFS]

Just now, 4everfox said:

I'm in favour of players taking the knee, it promotes awareness for a genuine global issue, and I don't see the point in booing when players do it, it's not hurting anyone. People that can't resist booing are surely racist, and any "fan" that racially abuses anybody should be banished from football forever. But, I have seen a lot of people labelled as racist on this thread without actually saying anything remotely racist, just stating why they don't approve of the BLM movement. It's not very nice to read, in my opinion.

Thanks for elaborating. 
 

The fact of the matter is hanging the booing on a disapproval of BLM is so weak that it does come across as racist. I think we’ve all discussed this ‘Marxism’ nonsense at length to realise it’s a non argument. So the way the boos come across very much does look racist. 
 

All the more reason to stop booing it tbh.

[Strokes]

27 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

 

What this thread reads like. Grow up.

This is not exactly the same as a political correctness war, it’s not accidentally using a incorrect term to describe someone or not being on trend. That’s what that meme represented.

This is born out of vile unwarranted hate on ethnicity. We can debate the merits of the BLM organisation till the cows come home but when people respond with racism, they are turning more and more people into their arms.

If you really don’t like BLM™️, then find another way to voice it because whether it is your intent or not, it’s now viewed as racist to boo the knee.

 

Maybe it’s time for fans to kneel that oppose the booing, so we can identify to all who’s who.

[KFS]

2 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

1. Some people reject the claim that it is an anti-racism message. The ideology associated with this gesture, and more broadly the constant discussion around race and fixation on skin colour, puts race at the forefront of every conversation. Many people, me included, believe that it is racist to constantly focus on skin colour and that the end goal is for race to be a non-defining characteristic like any other aspect of someone's physical appearance. For brevity, I'll draw a straight line between those two ideas: I am against racism, and therefore I am against taking the knee. Is it ok if I call everyone who disagrees with me a racist? Scum? Neanderthal? Ignorant? Knuckle-dragger? I don't think so.

 

2. Following on from the previous point, some people might reject the claim that we have an issue with racism in this country. It doesn't reflect what most of us have observed in our lives. Saying something racist in virtually any social context will be met with derision and probably anger. The MLK "content of character" doctrine has been more or less universally adopted by society as a whole. The fact that individuals exist who don't believe in it, or the fact that incidents happen in which people say racist things, does not disprove this. I actually think taking the knee and the race-centric "social justice" movements more broadly are undoing that progress.

Once again, if a post at this length is needed to explain the reasoning, a monosyllabic noise is not appropriate. 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, LCFCbwoi said:

I’ll repeat, black players should never have to

go into schools and teach kids why they shouldn’t be racist. That’s not their job at all.

 

It might not do anything for you but taking the knee isn’t there to reduce racism. Its there to

keep It at the forefront because it’s still a massive issue. Its not an easy option when the players want to continue doing it, this is a players led action which was fore-fronted by our greatest ever captain ffs. 

To be fair to @filbertway he didn't say black players should (although no reason why they can't). He actually used Kasper as an example. It may not be any player's job but any player (not just Leicester's) could use their status to give out a message that's being discussed. In addition to taking the knee, in my humble opinion though, not as a replacement for it. 

 

Schools themselves could do it without players anyway, if they're not already. If they're not, given the huge publicity taking the knee and anti-racism campaigns there are, I'd be surprised.

Agree with the 2nd part of your post. 

[Raj]

8 minutes ago, woznotwos said:

Seriously , i hope nearby fans let them know that they were out of order at the time. One good preventative measure would be to have them sucking there dinner through a straw waiting for new dentures.

Takes balls though for someone to speak up doesnt it.

Imagine me going upto a group of p1ssed up racist lads...imagine being in that scenario.

It needs more decent white people to sort this out and challenge these people.

 

[foxinyourbox]

[Guest MarshallForEngland]

12 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

With respect, you're using your command of language to muddy the waters here. Please don't come at me with 'sanctimonious', you're on very thin ice there.

 

Racist abuse is ignorance, booing a peaceful gesture is ignorance. And trying to speak for anyone but yourself is the height of arrogance.

 

I think warning people that they are "on thin ice" is a pretty good example of sanctimony. I specifically chose that word because of its religious etymology. There is something quite Clerical about the way people like you love to bully others, buoyed by a sense of moral superiority. 

Edited 8 August 2021 by MarshallForEngland

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

11 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

With respect, you're using your command of language to muddy the waters here. Please don't come at me with 'sanctimonious', you're on very thin ice there.

 

Racist abuse is ignorance, booing a peaceful gesture is ignorance. And trying to speak for anyone but yourself is the height of arrogance.

👍👍👍👍👍👍

[MattFox]

1 minute ago, foxinyourbox said:

You can support Leicester without having a Leicestershire accent though 

[RumbleFox]

9 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

1. Some people reject the claim that it is an anti-racism message. The ideology associated with this gesture, and more broadly the constant discussion around race and fixation on skin colour, puts race at the forefront of every conversation. Many people, me included, believe that it is racist to constantly focus on skin colour and that the end goal is for race to be a non-defining characteristic like any other aspect of someone's physical appearance. For brevity, I'll draw a straight line between those two ideas: I am against racism, and therefore I am against taking the knee. Is it ok if I call everyone who disagrees with me a racist? Scum? Neanderthal? Ignorant? Knuckle-dragger? I don't think so.

 

2. Following on from the previous point, some people might reject the claim that we have an issue with racism in this country. It doesn't reflect what most of us have observed in our lives. Saying something racist in virtually any social context will be met with derision and probably anger. The MLK "content of character" doctrine has been more or less universally adopted by society as a whole. The fact that individuals exist who don't believe in it, or the fact that incidents happen in which people say racist things, does not disprove this. I actually think taking the knee and the race-centric "social justice" movements more broadly are undoing that progress.

Do you really believe all that? Like I’m not knocking you, you speak well and don’t get bogged down with insults and the such but genuinely, when you’re alone with your thoughts do you genuinely  believe what you’ve just written? 

Edited 8 August 2021 by RumbleFox

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, MarshallForEngland said:

 

I think warning people that they are "on this ice" is a pretty good example of sanctimony. I specifically chose that word because of its religious etymology. There is something quite Clerical about the way people like you love to bully others, buoyed by a sense of moral superiority. 

I'm sorry, did you just accuse me of bullying? That takes the cake, along with your evident lack of self-awareness.

[Raj]

Worst thing for me is having yesterdays win diluted in triumph by this sh1t.

Waking up joyous and to read what Wrighty went through.

Even worst is some simple peoples logic like @MarshallForEngland droning on like a non coherent  Boris Johnson trying to defend Neanderthals  with his long winded story telling!!!