Ian Wright abuse today

[Guest MarshallForEngland]

Just now, RumbleFox said:

Do you really believe all that? Like I’m not knocking you, you speak well and don’t get bogged down with insults and the such but genuinely, when you’re alone with your thoughts so you genuinely  believe what you’ve just written? 

Which part? I do believe all of it, but I am curious about whether or not you had a specific claim in mind?

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

2 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

 

I think warning people that they are "on this ice" is a pretty good example of sanctimony. I specifically chose that word because of its religious etymology. There is something quite Clerical about the way people like you love to bully others, buoyed by a sense of moral superiority. 

A load of bollocks typed by a dictionary. 

[StanSP]

What I don't get is Emile Heskey is standing right next to Ian Wright.

 

These ignorant tw@ts clearly are stupid. Do they not think how Heskey would be hearing this as well as Wright?!

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, StanSP said:

What I don't get is Emile Heskey is standing right next to Ian Wright.

 

These ignorant tw@ts clearly are stupid. Do they not think how Heskey would be hearing this as well as Wright?!

No, they don't. 

[Nick]

Y’know, lots of older people talking about how taking the knee is becoming devalued (to them and others) fair enough. But I’d argue it’s not about them.

 

We are talking about recognising and then attempting to eradicate prejudice, bias and inequality. That doesn’t happen overnight. It happens over generations.

 

So let’s talk about the next generations. They tuck their shorts in to their pants before taking a free kick like Ronaldo. They cover their mouths with their hands when they talk to each other (laughably to prevent TV lip readers seeing what they are saying!) They’re all wearing their Madders/Grealish Alice bands (oldies not keen on them either) and in local grassroot games and kickabouts on parks up and down the country they are taking the knee… and it’s being explained to them why. 
 

Ive never known a generation of young people less prejudice, more open to the idea of people being people and not judging on gender, race and sexual orientation than the generation coming through.

 

Just sayin that maybe taking the knee isn’t about what immediate impact many adults think it’s having and how it makes them feel. Maybe it’s all about what it’s always been about - future generations learning from the dick head issues their forefathers didn’t deal with.

[Raj]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

What I don't get is Emile Heskey is standing right next to Ian Wright.

 

These ignorant tw@ts clearly are stupid. Do they not think how Heskey would be hearing this as well as Wright?!

Yeah but yeah but Heskeys one of our own though innit.

Dont mean it to him..its all the others tho innit...God save our Gracious Queen and all that...no surrender to the IRA 

[Raj]

4 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

A load of bollocks typed by a dictionary. 

@MarshallForEngland please just go for a walk to clear your head or go for Sunday lunch somewhere and switch the phone off.

Please.

Edited 8 August 2021 by Raj

[LCFCbwoi]

3 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

1. Some people reject the claim that it is an anti-racism message. The ideology associated with this gesture, and more broadly the constant discussion around race and fixation on skin colour, puts race at the forefront of every conversation. Many people, me included, believe that it is racist to constantly focus on skin colour and that the end goal is for race to be a non-defining characteristic like any other aspect of someone's physical appearance. For brevity, I'll draw a straight line between those two ideas: I am against racism, and therefore I am against taking the knee. Is it ok if I call everyone who disagrees with me a racist? Scum? Neanderthal? Ignorant? Knuckle-dragger? I don't think so.

 

2. Following on from the previous point, some people might reject the claim that we have an issue with racism in this country. It doesn't reflect what most of us have observed in our lives. Saying something racist in virtually any social context will be met with derision and probably anger. The MLK "content of character" doctrine has been more or less universally adopted by society as a whole. The fact that individuals exist who don't believe in it, or the fact that incidents happen in which people say racist things, does not disprove this. I actually think taking the knee and the race-centric "social justice" movements more broadly are undoing that progress.

So you believe that taking in the knee is essentially racist in itself? Players aren’t taking the knee as a direct result of racism in society, they’re taking the knee because of the racism they receive and continue to receive, just look at yesterday and the Euros final ffs.

 

And are you white by any chance? Please don’t get offended. I just find it weird to suggest that most people in this country don’t feel there’s much racism in this country, wouldn’t it be best to have that conversation with minorities who racism effects the most?
 

I also find it strange you’re trying to reject these claims of racism in this country on a post where people are reacting to racist abuse that Ian Wright received by OUR ‘fans’. Maybe listen more to people who speak on issues that might effect them more than yourself. They’re not ‘preaching’, they have genuine concerns that they want addressed.

[Guest MarshallForEngland]

I must say I find it amusing that I am at once a knuckle-dragging neanderthal who can barely read and an arrogant prig who deliberately uses complex language to bamboozle others.

[drumbeat]

48 minutes ago, Kevin Russell said:

That makes a lot of sense, but I don’t necessarily agree. I do think a lot of people who boo are racist, but I think some people are inclined to jeer because they feel it is not the right context for political statements. 
 

I don’t agree with people that boo, but I feel uncomfortable when people are told they can’t have an opinion. When some people disagree with taking the knee and they are instantly disregarded as racist knuckle-draggers - I don’t think they all are.

Allowing people to express opinions and then debating them is much more sensible in my opinion. I don’t agree with a previous poster who said you can’t educate some - I’m actually shocked by the extent of the contempt for others who don’t share a certain opinion. 
 

Many people have been converted from extreme political views whether facist or fundamentalist or others. I am positive that there is more good than bad in most people and if their voice is heard then they are more likely to engage in the debates that ultimately lead them to change their opinions.
 

 

I wouldn't disagree with anything you say there, as someone else remarked it's "common sense" - ideals that nobody/few would oppose.  In a similarly idealistic vein, I simply ask 'who opposes an anti-racist gesture?'

 

Because it's been said before (a number of times now) taking the knee is not a "political statement". It's an anti-racist one. 

 

Like yourself, I am not saying that all those that boo are 'knuckle-dragging racists' (though I acknowledge some do say exactly this) Further, I would imagine you would condemn those that are booing because of racist attitudes. What I am saying is that I think some that boo are missing the intention of a simple protest gesture, or they think their own dislike of the gesture (for whatever reason) gives them the right to shout down those who are prepared to act in solidarity and make an anti-racist statement. Which is the bigger 'right'? (if I can put it like that). Which is the more important issue? Racism? Or the (selfish?) right of an individual to put voice their own opinion, one that might well be formed based on a misconception. I repeat, for deliberate emphasis, 'taking the knee' is not a political statement.   

 

You say you don't agree with people that boo. Why is that? What makes you uncomfortable?  You correctly acknowledge there are a number of reasons why they may be doing it,  so obviously you can't know all of the reasons, yet you don't like it en masse - regardless of individual opinions. Could I suggest/offer that it is the very nature of the booing that you don't like. Is it perhaps the fact that people are choosing to oppose a simple, and inoffensive, gesture in such vociferous manner?

 

I personally don't get the opposition to taking the knee. Ineffectual? Gesture 'politics'? Yes, arguably, in that it's not going to bring about change in and of itself, but it is about highlighting attitudes that clearly do exist in our society. Repugnant attitudes. You have to highlight such things (make people aware, bring it to their attention) to instigate change. I could no more oppose 'taking the knee' than I could oppose any of the numerous 'awareness' campaigns that exist. Whether I personally agree with each and every one of these campaigns is a moot point (I am at liberty to contribute or not, as I like) but I do not demand they cease.  

 

For me, I see the attempt to shout down 'taking the knee' as tantamount to saying "we don't want to talk about it". To pick up on something your wrote in your post (which, as I say, I agree with) people can be educated, and you can only educate people when they are prepared to listen. Booing is not listening.

 

[RumbleFox]

7 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

Which part? I do believe all of it, but I am curious about whether or not you had a specific claim in mind?

Like that racism isn’t really that big of an issue? Unless I misunderstood in which case apologise. I have adhd and find long paragraphs difficult sometimes sorry. 

[4everfox]

11 minutes ago, KFS said:

Thanks for elaborating. 
 

The fact of the matter is hanging the booing on a disapproval of BLM is so weak that it does come across as racist. I think we’ve all discussed this ‘Marxism’ nonsense at length to realise it’s a non argument. So the way the boos come across very much does look racist. 
 

All the more reason to stop booing it tbh.

I don't approve of the booing at all, it's petty. But people do have a right to question the intentions of the BLM movement and make their own decisions based on their political beliefs. That's why some players refuse to do it. Having said that, it doesn't give people the right to boo a harmless act that raises awareness for an issue that has plagued the world for too long, whether they approve of it or not. If someone disapproves of BLM, then that is their decision, but they shouldn't be told that it's a racist decision when it probably isn't. 

[GingerrrFox]

5 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

I must say I find it amusing that I am at once a knuckle-dragging neanderthal who can barely read and an arrogant prig who deliberately uses complex language to bamboozle others.

I think what you are missing is that booing the act of taking the knee is viewed by the overwhelming majority of our society as supporting racism. Therefore anyone who chooses to support the booing of the knee is going to be viewed as either a racist or a racist sympathiser. 
 

The people involved in this anti racism message are telling the nation it’s not politically motivated, it’s not about defunding the police and it’s not about abolishing capitalism and embracing Karl Marx and his ideology. If people continue to ignore that and continue to boo taking the knee the only logical decision to make is the above.

 

Also, you need to learn that just because you use big words doesn’t make your view point anymore tolerable to the people who have tried to explain the above to you. You can be either an educated racist or an uneducated racist, the use of a good vocabulary makes no difference. 
 

Also I must stress that I’m not accusing you of being a racist but simply you have taken a very strange stance on this whole scenario. 

Edited 8 August 2021 by GingerrrFox

[LCFCbwoi]

26 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

This is a bit sanctimonious and rather inquisitorial I must say. The same argument has been made by religious zealots and ideologues many times throughout history when they attempt to shame others who reject their doctrine. If people don't agree with the prevailing orthodoxy, it's because they're ignorant, stupid, immoral, sinful, evil etc. As a species we've tried this sort of thing before unfortunately and it never ends well.

Please read back tomorrow what you’ve put in this thread btw. You may think you sound smart, but you just sound like a pillock. You talk about moral superiority quite a lot in your arguments so maybe you need a strong look at yourself.

[HighPeakFox]

4 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

I must say I find it amusing that I am at once a knuckle-dragging neanderthal who can barely read and an arrogant prig who deliberately uses complex language to bamboozle others.

I don't think anyone has called you a neanderthal, but well done on playing the victim card.

[woznotwos]

13 minutes ago, foxinyourbox said:

The problem is probably not helped by the steward looking the other way when that's what he is supposed to be dealing with. He needs to be down there talking to them.

[drumbeat]

Just now, 4everfox said:

If someone disapproves of BLM, then that is their decision, but they shouldn't be told that it's a racist decision when it probably isn't. 

Agreed, with a caveat. Rather than "probably isn't", I'd say "might not be".

[Itsthejoeker]

Just now, woznotwos said:

The problem is probably not helped by the steward looking the other way when that's what he is supposed to be dealing with. He needs to be down there talking to them.

Someone pointed out that the steward in this area was a you Asian lad who did confront them and they got in his face. 
 

These stewards aren’t paid enough to get beaten up confronting racists. 
 

He perhaps should have got some assistance but that’s another matte. 

[woznotwos]

Going back to the transfer thread as this is annoying.

[Guest MarshallForEngland]

2 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

Like that racism isn’t really that big of an issue? Unless I misunderstood in which case apologise. I have adhd and find long paragraphs difficult sometimes sorry. 

No not at all, I appreciate the question. I don't believe it's as big as it the protests, gestures, and media coverage portray it to be. I think the United Kingdom is truly one of the most tolerant places on earth and to be a racist person is to be a social pariah. 

[woznotwos]

Back from the transfer thread as that's annoying

[Raj]

10 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

I must say I find it amusing that I am at once a knuckle-dragging neanderthal who can barely read and an arrogant prig who deliberately uses complex language to bamboozle others.

Atlast something  we can all agree on.

Well done.

[Raj]

2 minutes ago, woznotwos said:

Back from the transfer thread as that's annoying

I'd go straight back there if I was you....I'm off to "Birds you fancy off the telly" to see some dog ugly snooker ref...its better than this sh1te....

[Itsthejoeker]

11 minutes ago, MarshallForEngland said:

I must say I find it amusing that I am at once a knuckle-dragging neanderthal who can barely read and an arrogant prig who deliberately uses complex language to bamboozle others.

If the boot fits, wear it. 

[The boy Linacre]

13 hours ago, Tuna said:

I love Wrighty blokes an absolute legend one of Football's good guys.

And Keano, honest pundit & my mums from Cork too