Patson Daka

[fuchsntf]

There are many players around the leagues,where it says the managers  & coaches,just don’t favour them…or have problems in knowing how to use them..can reoccur over 2-3 management teams..

I believe at city, Souttar,Daka,maybe also  Justin & Nacho….They themselves are character wise not detrimental characters for the club,just struggle for proper  recognition…

I don’t understand the handling of Souttar and to a point Kristiansen,Iversen & Justin..

[gurru991]

4 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

There are many players around the leagues,where it says the managers  & coaches,just don’t favour them…or have problems in knowing how to use them..can reoccur over 2-3 management teams..

I believe at city, Souttar,Daka,maybe also  Justin & Nacho….They themselves are character wise not detrimental characters for the club,just struggle for proper  recognition…

I don’t understand the handling of Souttar and to a point Kristiansen,Iversen & Justin..

Kristiansen is a conventional type fullback who didn't want to play centre back. Iverson is poor with the ball at his feet & that doesn't fit Enzo's style. JJ is apparently in the long term plans but I have no idea about Souttar.

[Fox92]

16 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

There are many players around the leagues,where it says the managers  & coaches,just don’t favour them…or have problems in knowing how to use them..can reoccur over 2-3 management teams..

I believe at city, Souttar,Daka,maybe also  Justin & Nacho….They themselves are character wise not detrimental characters for the club,just struggle for proper  recognition…

I don’t understand the handling of Souttar and to a point Kristiansen,Iversen & Justin..

It's a shame Justin doesn't feature as much but Iversen is not good with his feet and Souttar is no better than Vestergaard.

[The Doctor]

30 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

I would like to see the statistical evidence that leads us to the conclusion that he’s “pretty effective”. 
 

I’m inclined to think it may lean more towards: “Dogbob” 

 

Guy is right up there when it comes to tackling, blocks and interceptions for forwards, hence why I said pretty effective defensive forward. when you consider this is what wilf is in the number 8 role for, his ability to force turnovers higher up the pitch, patson is an effective player in the right system (this is what Vardy used to be good at back when he was alongside Nugent). Whether that's this system when what you want more from a striker in this system is strong link up play remains to be seen, but "Dogbob" he isn't 

[Jobyfox]

7 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

It's a shame Justin doesn't feature as much but Iversen is not good with his feet and Souttar is no better than Vestergaard.

I might be a bit old fashioned, but I still prefer a goalkeeper to be good with their hands. A bit harsh on Iversen to go from 1st to 3rd choice. 
 

If Stolarczyk is the 2nd best keeper at the club it does further expose the folly of playing Ward and Iversen for so long, but I suppose I’ll get over that one day 

[gurru991]

5 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

It's a shame Justin doesn't feature as much but Iversen is not good with his feet and Souttar is no better than Vestergaard.

I think we will see Justin feature pretty soon, Enzo has said good things about him.

[Jobyfox]

3 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

 

Guy is right up there when it comes to tackling, blocks and interceptions for forwards, hence why I said pretty effective defensive forward. when you consider this is what wilf is in the number 8 role for, his ability to force turnovers higher up the pitch, patson is an effective player in the right system (this is what Vardy used to be good at back when he was alongside Nugent). Whether that's this system when what you want more from a striker in this system is strong link up play remains to be seen, but "Dogbob" he isn't 

This is like my previous comment on goalkeepers. I should just accept that I’m an old fashioned Luddite. 
 

“Defensive forward”? WTF? I just want my striker to provide goals and assists. 

[Samilktray]

2 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

This is like my previous comment on goalkeepers. I should just accept that I’m an old fashioned Luddite. 
 

“Defensive forward”? WTF? I just want my striker to provide goals and assists. 

A striker who presses and tackles from the front really isn’t some wildly futuristic concept I’m sorry but you are just being pedantic and a bit silly here 

[The Doctor]

4 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

This is like my previous comment on goalkeepers. I should just accept that I’m an old fashioned Luddite. 
 

“Defensive forward”? WTF? I just want my striker to provide goals and assists. 

Football has moved on a lot since the days of the fox in the box archetype, strikers need to offer more in general play, hence roles like defensive forward, deep lying forward etc, where the role is less as a focal point, more to set the tempo and to feed runners beyond from midfield 

[sacreblueits442]

8 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

A striker who presses and tackles from the front really isn’t some wildly futuristic concept I’m sorry but you are just being pedantic and a bit silly here 

...you wouldn't call Vardy a defensive forward, but he leads the press upfront!!!

A "defensive Forward" is a misnomer.

[Jobyfox]

30 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

A striker who presses and tackles from the front really isn’t some wildly futuristic concept I’m sorry but you are just being pedantic and a bit silly here 

Lots of strikers do that … and are infinitely more effective than Daka at being creative for themselves and others. 

If all this is supposed to prove that Daka is a useful player then it’s another case of lies, damn lies and statistics. 
 

He’s 3rd choice striker for a reason. And I only wouldn’t have him as 4th choice because I’ve never seen Cannon play 

 

[RowlattsFox]

I'd like to see Daka on the bench at least as an option but I don't see an occasion where Enzo brings 2 strikers on 

[Finnegan]

16 hours ago, Jobyfox said:

This is like my previous comment on goalkeepers. I should just accept that I’m an old fashioned Luddite. 
 

“Defensive forward”? WTF? I just want my striker to provide goals and assists. 

 

You realise the phrase Defensive Forward was pretty much invented to describe Jamie Vardy right? 

[Chelmofox]

17 hours ago, Fox92 said:

It's a shame Justin doesn't feature as much but Iversen is not good with his feet and Souttar is no better than Vestergaard.

Convinced they are being careful with Justin. I think that will pay dividends in the long term.

[Jobyfox]

28 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You realise the phrase Defensive Forward was pretty much invented to describe Jamie Vardy right? 

I don’t care who it was invented for it’s still a misnomer. 
 

A player can tackle from the front, chase, harry, play as a false 9, withdrawn forward etc etc, but his primary output is still attack. Whether that’s in an individual perspective or the output of the team collectively. 
 

Are we really trying to suggest that Daka is even remotely as effective as a prime Vardy? Showing some statistics that Daka tackles and chases from the front to somehow demonstrate that he is an effective striker is erroneous.

 

He isn’t!
 

Which I’m guessing is why he hasn’t been consistently picked by our last three managers or sufficiently wanted by any other team 

[Gamble92]

44 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You realise the phrase Defensive Forward was pretty much invented to describe Jamie Vardy right? 

Have you heard of Ian Rush?

[An Away Move]

17 hours ago, Jobyfox said:

I might be a bit old fashioned, but I still prefer a goalkeeper to be good with their hands. A bit harsh on Iversen to go from 1st to 3rd choice. 
 

If Stolarczyk is the 2nd best keeper at the club it does further expose the folly of playing Ward and Iversen for so long, but I suppose I’ll get over that one day 

Agree. Our first choice is short and we’ve now seen a couple fly in beyond his reach from outside the box. Both excellent strikes admittedly. 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Jobyfox said:

player can tackle from the front, chase, harry, play as a false 9, withdrawn forward etc etc, but his primary output is still attack.

 

11 players go on the pitch to defend. 

 

11 players go on the pitch to attack. 

 

You do both as a team. We won the Premier League with Shinji Okazaki as a "striker." He did everything foxestalk hates. Didn't score, didn't assist, fell over a lot when pressured. He was also absolutely essential to the way the team collectively both attacked and defended and I'd argue he was as big a miss as Kante when we tried dropping him for Slimani. 

 

The ability to effectively press from the front is a key component to a lot of modern systems, it's why every manager that's had Kelechi Iheanacho at the club has also had problems trying to get him to work in any effective system for long periods of time. He just doesn't do enough work. 

 

Now, find me anyone, anywhere (even me) trying to claim Patson Daka is of the same quality as prime Vardy. They aren't, nobody ever has. But he's the closest we've had for a considerable amount of time in terms of his overall strengths and weaknesses. Is he perfect or even the finished article? No. But he's an effective finisher that works hard and contributes enormously in all phases of play. 

 

Oh and, by the way, Maresca wasn't just blowing smoke up his arse when he said Daka is a complete footballer that contributes well to the build up. What I think are actually some of Daka's most surprisingly stand out stats are how he compares to some similar strikers (off the shoulder, in behind, poacher types) when it comes to shot creating actions, assists, passing play in general. I appreciate he doesn't really pass the eye test as a technical footballer but he's actually quite surprisingly productive. 

[Verumex]

On 14/09/2023 at 13:11, AKCJ said:

Could quite easily make the same meme with Skinner being Rudkin and him saying "no, it's the fans who are wrong".

I'm hardly claiming that Rudkin is the Saint of LCFC, there's plenty of issues that we all know about. But the amount of times that he gets flak on here for stuff that quite likely has nothing to do with him is getting a bit ridiculous.

 

There's no point bringing out the pitchforks for Rudkin for every little thing that goes wrong, there's plenty of actual catastrophes that will come around where he is to blame. 

[AKCJ]

Just now, Verumex said:

I'm hardly claiming that Rudkin is the Saint of LCFC, there's plenty of issues that we all know about. But the amount of times that he gets flak on here for stuff that quite likely has nothing to do with him is getting a bit ridiculous.

 

There's no point bringing out the pitchforks for Rudkin for every little thing that goes wrong, there's plenty of actual catastrophes that will come around where he is to blame. 

Selling players is literally his job. He's the Director of Football and because of that he's culpable for a hell of a lot.

[Verumex]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

Are we really trying to suggest that Daka is even remotely as effective as a prime Vardy?

Who has claimed that? Seriously, can you find me anyone? 

 

Those of us that see something in his stats see that he has the potential to become good, based on the fact that his contributions have been very good considering his lack of play time, and they seem to come more in those little periods where he got some 70-90 minutes run outs.

 

I'd say that it's more like we're comparing Daka to Vardy in his first season here, before he got to play some regular football and show us what he was capable of.

[Verumex]

3 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Selling players is literally his job. He's the Director of Football and because of that he's culpable for a hell of a lot.

You can only sell to people who want him, and for a reasonable offer.

 

He's also in charge of making sure we don't get rinsed.

[Jobyfox]

56 minutes ago, Verumex said:

Who has claimed that? Seriously, can you find me anyone? 

 

Those of us that see something in his stats see that he has the potential to become good, based on the fact that his contributions have been very good considering his lack of play time, and they seem to come more in those little periods where he got some 70-90 minutes run outs.

 

I'd say that it's more like we're comparing Daka to Vardy in his first season here, before he got to play some regular football and show us what he was capable of.

Ok I’ll leave it there.

 

I don’t see it myself, but would be delighted to be proven wrong. He wouldn’t be the first player to come good and make me look a bit silly and, for the sake of the team, I hope he’s the next. 
 

Not holding my breath though 

[funkyrobot]

19 hours ago, Samilktray said:

A striker who presses and tackles from the front really isn’t some wildly futuristic concept I’m sorry but you are just being pedantic and a bit silly here 

Tbh what ever the players position on the pitch, under Enzo, the basic requirement off the ball is an ability to press.  

[fuchsntf]

On 14/09/2023 at 20:03, Fox92 said:

It's a shame Justin doesn't feature as much but Iversen is not good with his feet and Souttar is no better than Vestergaard.

I am really not concerned who is better,but welcoming them into the squad,and showing club,player & fans, rescources ( players) on the books from the off were willing to play for the club. We have all lived and experienced with our club,where need premeditates individual stubborn wishes. Even a manager has to realise,players on the clubs books are still a rescource that should not be dumped,or ignored. Wages are being payed..