Patson Daka

[LCCFox96]

Daka's performance on Boxing Day shouldn't be surprise to anyone. We simply didn't set up to his strengths. With the exception of Barnes, he was the only major goal threat in the starting 11 and we never created a single opportunity for him and didn't play to his strengths. That's mental, we left him up there between Schar and Botman and barely got people up to help him. The set-up and physicality from Newcastle suited Vardy more, so we looked marginally better when he came on.

 

Daka's best performances have come when he's playing in a front two and has more obvious supply lines into him - Maddison, Iheancho etc. Other than that, the majority of his goals have been his predatory instincts in the box. Bournemouth away was a perfect example, before anyone else had even reacted he'd swivelled and cranked a brilliant finish into the bottom corner. I've no concerns about Daka scoring goals for us if we set up to give him a chance to do that.

[Sampson]

58 minutes ago, LCCFox96 said:

Daka's performance on Boxing Day shouldn't be surprise to anyone. We simply didn't set up to his strengths. With the exception of Barnes, he was the only major goal threat in the starting 11 and we never created a single opportunity for him and didn't play to his strengths. That's mental, we left him up there between Schar and Botman and barely got people up to help him. The set-up and physicality from Newcastle suited Vardy more, so we looked marginally better when he came on.

 

Daka's best performances have come when he's playing in a front two and has more obvious supply lines into him - Maddison, Iheancho etc. Other than that, the majority of his goals have been his predatory instincts in the box. Bournemouth away was a perfect example, before anyone else had even reacted he'd swivelled and cranked a brilliant finish into the bottom corner. I've no concerns about Daka scoring goals for us if we set up to give him a chance to do that.

So we should sacrifice for the rest of the side for Daka? We should force Tielemans, Barnes or Maddison further back so we can sit back and give Daka more space to run into?

 

It’s the same with Ndidi, people constantly say “we should switch to 433 and play him as a proper anchor man to play to his strengths” - as if we should be building the side around him. There’s always trade offs in building sides to play to certain players strengths and the likes of Daka and Ndidi simply aren’t the players we should be setting up our side to placate, because we have much better and more talented players who we clearly should be concentrating on.

 

We’ve scored plenty of goals this season - comfortably the most in the bottom half and more than the likes of Chelsea and ManUtd (it’s our defence/goalkeeper who’ve been a far bigger issue than goals), largely through Maddison, Tielemans and Barnes, so the side is certainly set up in a way to score goals from some sources certainly, even it’s more from midfield/wide players. I don’t know why people think “we should play to Daka’s strengths” is anything but a backhanded compliment and an indication that Daka is too limited.
 

He’s not good enough to build the side around and sacrifice other players to play to his strengths, we should be playing to the strengths of the likes of Maddison and Barnes which the current setup is doing somewhat, not Daka.

 

If Daka can only play one way to the point we have to set up the entire side around him, that isn’t a good thing.

[Guest Mee-9]

We never play to the strength's of our forwards anymore. 

 

No balls forward, nothing to run on to. 

[1884Man]

That's very true and therein lies our problem 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Tbf those stats aren’t particularly great and don’t really show a top half PL striker. For all people go on about his lack of service, I’d say 16% conversation rate is pretty mediocre and below what you want from a top half PL striker and the fact he’s behind a load of midfielders and wingers and flops like Bailey and Eduard isn’t exactly flattering.
 

I’m not saying he won’t come good but those tables aren’t particularly flattering or showing a player who looks like a good top half PL striker. Personally I think he’s probably a decent bottom half PL striker who can get you 8-12 goals a season but I think we probably need a bit better than him going forward, I think there’s more to it than just “a lack of service”

 

And the fact preppie are using the defence that “he needs it played in behind” is not a good sign. As it means he’s so reliant on only playing one way and needs it played in behind is a worry as it means we have to build the whole side around him and he isn’t good enough to have a whole side built solely for his benefit like Vardy was tbh.
 

People used to make all exactly the same defences for Beckford back in the day on here - and it’s exactly the same thing, that’s fine if he was a genuine quality player rather than a lazy, mediocre player who needed everything done for him and who wasn’t good enough to sacrifice other players for  - if you can only play one way and people are complaining that the team isn’t built to suit him, that’s not a good sign as you have to be good enough to have the rest of the squad sacrifice themselves for you. Players like Vardy, Maddison and Mahrez are/were good enough to sacrifice other players for their benefit/freedom, but I think Daka has shown very very little to show he is the player we should be building the side around and sacrificing other players for.

Vardy isn't even on the conversion list from the other 14 clubs, so is he not a top half striker? Just pointing out those saying his stats and finishing aren't particularly good are just ignoring those highlighted above.

[Sampson]

56 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Vardy isn't even on the conversion list from the other 14 clubs, so is he not a top half striker? Just pointing out those saying his stats and finishing aren't particularly good are just ignoring those highlighted above.

He certainly was but clearly not now age has caught up with him. Vardy was top of that list last season and the season or two before

 

Yep and I was saying those stats if anything show that Daka isn’t a top half striker. For starters, ignoring the top 6 is ignoring most of the top half, so you’d expect only the top 3 or 4 players in that list to be top half strikers. Not a player who’s shown as 17th in the conversation list even after you’ve taken out most of the top half anyway. If anything that barely shows a player who should be good enough to be a bottom half PL striker.
 

I would hardly call the likes of Leon Bailey or Eduard, who Daka is behind, top half strikers either.

[cruzFOX]

Truth is Daka should have kicked on by now. Vardy has been tiring for a while now.

Daka has one job to do and that is to score goals. He has to do much much better imo

sorry it’s tough love but we can’t afford for him to not be scoring every game. If he can’t handle it we look for someone who can.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

His 8 Premier League goals have come in just over 20 matches worth of minutes. That's actually not too shabby. Brendan needs to start showing some confidence in him. Hooking him at halftime on Boxing Day won't do much for his confidence.

[StanSP]

14 minutes ago, cruzFOX said:

sorry it’s tough love but we can’t afford for him to not be scoring every game.

Wanting him to score every game is not tough love. It's just downright unrealistic  

[Mr Weller 2]

It isn’t just a matter of service although that plays a part. We need a striker who will get 20+ if we are to compete for Europe and so far Daka hasn’t looked like he can do this. He may be different in training and he may get better in time but he’s had 18 months and few players need that long.

[Tommy Fresh]

48 minutes ago, Sampson said:

He certainly was but clearly not now age has caught up with him. Vardy was top of that list last season and the season or two before

 

Yep and I was saying those stats if anything show that Daka isn’t a top half striker. For starters, ignoring the top 6 is ignoring most of the top half, so you’d expect only the top 3 or 4 players in that list to be top half strikers. Not a player who’s shown as 17th in the conversation list even after you’ve taken out most of the top half anyway. If anything that barely shows a player who should be good enough to be a bottom half PL striker.
 

I would hardly call the likes of Leon Bailey or Eduard, who Daka is behind, top half strikers either.

Mitrovic is behind him in that list with Fulham sitting in the top half so would yoh say his 16% isn't good enough?

[Sampson]

22 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Mitrovic is behind him in that list with Fulham sitting in the top half so would yoh say his 16% isn't good enough?

I mean in terms of finishing which is what we’re talking about clearly Mitrovich isn’t, no. He’s shown that in the past he’s never really been cut out for the PL. But this season he’s had the most shots in the division, even more than Haaland, which is why he’s scored well as a mediocre finisher. That’s either because he’s getting ridiculous service that is even better than de Bruyne and Foden can supply which is quite obviously unsustainable and far too unrealistic for what we can achieve here or he’s creating chances through his own strengths and movement which even the biggest defenders of Daka on here admit Daka isn’t doing and he needs service and it put on a plate in behind for him to run onto.

 

So yeah, I’m sure Daka would score a few if he was getting even better service than Haaland is, but if we’re getting to the point where we’re creating the most shots in the league for a striker then I think we would clearly still be scoring more with a striker with a better conversation rate. 

But the point is that the stats you posted show he’s not a particularly good finisher and compares quite poorly to some pretty mediocre PL strikers and yet we’re constantly told he’ll be an excellent striker it only we built the side around him to play it in behind him.

But honestly, the stats you posted show he’s not a particularly great finisher at this level and the eye test (as it’s hard to measure by stats else we’d find those too) to me show  he’s not a particularly great finder of space and doesn’t have particularly great movement either. Certainly after watching Vardy excel so greatly in those areas for so many years, Daka is a quite noticeable step down in terms of movement and finding space. Not saying anyone was ever going to compare to Vardy but there’s a much bigger gap there than I think I’d hoped when we signed him.

 

Which means yes, I’m sure if we had the best supply in the division to him and gave him the most shots in the division he might reach 15 league goals or so, but that’s both unrealistic and that I’m sure that’s true of plenty of bottom half PL and Championship strikers too and there’s still much better out there.

Edited 30 December 2022 by Sampson

[Tommy Fresh]

32 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I mean in terms of finishing which is what we’re talking about clearly Mitrovich isn’t, no. He’s shown that in the past he’s never really been cut out for the PL. But this season he’s had the most shots in the division, even more than Haaland, which is why he’s scored well as a mediocre finisher. That’s either because he’s getting ridiculous service that is even better than de Bruyne and Foden can supply which is quite obviously unsustainable and far too unrealistic for what we can achieve here or he’s creating chances through his own strengths and movement which even the biggest defenders of Daka on here admit Daka isn’t doing and he needs service and it put on a plate in behind for him to run onto.

 

So yeah, I’m sure Daka would score a few if he was getting even better service than Haaland is, but if we’re getting to the point where we’re creating the most shots in the league for a striker then I think we would clearly still be scoring more with a striker with a better conversation rate. 

But the point is that the stats you posted show he’s not a particularly good finisher and compares quite poorly to some pretty mediocre PL strikers and yet we’re constantly told he’ll be an excellent striker it only we built the side around him to play it in behind him.

But honestly, the stats you posted show he’s not a particularly great finisher at this level and the eye test (as it’s hard to measure by stats else we’d find those too) to me show  he’s not a particularly great finder of space and doesn’t have particularly great movement either. Certainly after watching Vardy excel so greatly in those areas for so many years, Daka is a quite noticeable step down in terms of movement and finding space. Not saying anyone was ever going to compare to Vardy but there’s a much bigger gap there than I think I’d hoped when we signed him.

 

Which means yes, I’m sure if we had the best supply in the division to him and gave him the most shots in the division he might reach 15 league goals or so, but that’s both unrealistic and that I’m sure that’s true of plenty of bottom half PL and Championship strikers too and there’s still much better out there.

If he was getting as many chances as Mitrovic we wouldn't be having this conversation, it's as simple as that really.

[Dahnsouff]

He will be fine once we get our supply lines sorted out, his ratio part time shows enough, but this obviously made more challenging currently with Maddison being in the shop (window?   )

Edited 30 December 2022 by Dahnsouff

[FoxyJim1987]

4 hours ago, LCCFox96 said:

Daka's performance on Boxing Day shouldn't be surprise to anyone. We simply didn't set up to his strengths. With the exception of Barnes, he was the only major goal threat in the starting 11 and we never created a single opportunity for him and didn't play to his strengths. That's mental, we left him up there between Schar and Botman and barely got people up to help him. The set-up and physicality from Newcastle suited Vardy more, so we looked marginally better when he came on.

 

Daka's best performances have come when he's playing in a front two and has more obvious supply lines into him - Maddison, Iheancho etc. Other than that, the majority of his goals have been his predatory instincts in the box. Bournemouth away was a perfect example, before anyone else had even reacted he'd swivelled and cranked a brilliant finish into the bottom corner. I've no concerns about Daka scoring goals for us if we set up to give him a chance to do that.

Totally disagree. The majority of his goals have been tap ins, most of the time he plays without a brain. Plenty of times I've seen him have space to run into or time and space on the ball and he hasn't got a clue what to do. When he's through on goal and it's harder to miss than score then happy days, but a league one striker would be in the same bracket. 18 months is enough to see he's not good enough for this league. Cannot fathom why Kelechi and Vardy are picked behind him.

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

Totally disagree. The majority of his goals have been tap ins, most of the time he plays without a brain. Plenty of times I've seen him have space to run into or time and space on the ball and he hasn't got a clue what to do. When he's through on goal and it's harder to miss than score then happy days, but a league one striker would be in the same bracket. 18 months is enough to see he's not good enough for this league. Cannot fathom why Kelechi and Vardy are picked behind him.

Because picking an ageing Vardy, whose numbers (g+a) this year are the same as Daka’s despite having played more, is a very emotional short term choice doomed to merely marginalise Daka further, and also be a plan needing scrapping in the short term anyway. Nacho though, yes, he should definitely be starting, ideally in a two.

[Sampson]

28 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

If he was getting as many chances as Mitrovic we wouldn't be having this conversation, it's as simple as that really.

Which is the point isn’t it? Needing a player to get the most chances in the league, even more than Haaland, to score a halfway decent amount is a backhanded compliment to the extreme. People saying “he just needs the service” when our better players like Maddison, Barnes and even Tielemans are scoring more than him is just reinforcing that he’s a very limited player who needs everything around him at the detriment of other attacking players to be perfect, because the stats show he’s not particularly clinical and the eye test shows he can’t create the movement and chances for himself, which we have been so used to seeing Vardy do both for years. 
 

No one is saying Daka is outright crap, but there’s definitely a lot more to it than just “he needs the service” and “play to his strengths, regardless of the rest of the side” is such a lazy defence and people were using it for about 18 months for Ndidi before realising that it’s more just an indication of how limited and one-note the player is.
 

If you need to build an entire team round a player, at the detriment of the rest of the balance of your side, just so he can get you 15 goals a season - and people are complaining we’re not creating enough for him when both our wingers and deep-lying midfielder clearly actually are still scoring goals at a decent rate in the way we’re currently set up - then there’s probably a lot better and far less limited and restrictive you could get in the centre forward position at this level.
 

You need to be exceptional to be so limited and get everyone around you to only play one way in the PL, which we’re told by those defending Daka he needs, and Daka just isn’t that kind of level to be worth building the side around.

Edited 30 December 2022 by Sampson

[FoxyJim1987]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Because picking an ageing Vardy, whose numbers (g+a) this year are the same as Daka’s despite having played more, is a very emotional short term choice doomed to merely marginalise Daka further, and also be a plan needing scrapping in the short term anyway. Nacho though, yes, he should definitely be starting, ideally in a two.

Vardy actually looks like scoring when he's on the pitch, as does Nacho. They intelligently join the build up play aswell. Daka, granted, has scored a couple of decent goals against Forest and Bournemouth, but most of his goals are tap ins. I was excited when he joined, but 18 months on he's just not good enough as a main striker. I agree Vardy needs replacing and Kelechi is better as a CF in a two, but until we sign a better number 9 those two should be picked ahead of Patson in my opinion.

[FoxyJim1987]

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Which is the point isn’t it? Needing a player to get the most chances in the league, even more than Haaland, to score a halfway decent amount is a backhanded compliment to the extreme. People saying “he just needs the service” when our better players like Maddison, Barnes and even Tielemans are scoring more than him is just reinforcing that he’s a very limited player who needs everything around him at the detriment of other attacking players to be perfect, because the stats show he’s not particularly clinical and the eye test shows he can’t create the movement and chances for himself, which we have been so used to seeing Vardy do both for years. 
 

No one is saying Daka is crap, but if you need to build an entire team round a player, at the detriment of the rest of the balance of your side, just so he can get you 15 goals a season - and you’re complaining we’re not creating enough when both our wingers and deep-lying midfielder clearly actually are still scoring goals at a decent rate - then there’s probably a lot better you could get in the centre forward position at this level.

Spot on. Daka scores easy goals and doesn't take part in any build up play really. Would he score 20 goals in the prem? No chance. Vardy or Kelechi have and will. And comparing him to Mitrovic is absurd, totally different forwards.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

Vardy actually looks like scoring when he's on the pitch, as does Nacho. They intelligently join the build up play aswell. Daka, granted, has scored a couple of decent goals against Forest and Bournemouth, but most of his goals are tap ins. I was excited when he joined, but 18 months on he's just not good enough as a main striker. I agree Vardy needs replacing and Kelechi is better as a CF in a two, but until we sign a better number 9 those two should be picked ahead of Patson in my opinion.

Does he? I know stats are arse,  but it shows Daka is much closer to his xG/xnpG than Vardy, but Vardy does seem to be transitioning to be more of an assister. Can be hard to gauge at present as we need a better look at the team post WC, and the Newcastle game was so disappointing.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

Spot on. Daka scores easy goals and doesn't take part in any build up play really. Would he score 20 goals in the prem? No chance. Vardy or Kelechi have and will. And comparing him to Mitrovic is absurd, totally different forwards.

Now hold on. Easy goals? Who cares? He could score 20 penalties, 20 off his arse, does it matter? Right place, same outcome, it’s all part of the position. 

[Unabomber]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Now hold on. Easy goals? Who cares? He could score 20 penalties, 20 off his arse, does it matter? Right place, same outcome, it’s all part of the position. 

Yeah that was an awful take

[Astleyfox]

Dake has got it. It wont come out inder this clown of a manager. 

[Tommy Fresh]

20 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Which is the point isn’t it? Needing a player to get the most chances in the league, even more than Haaland, to score a halfway decent amount is a backhanded compliment to the extreme. People saying “he just needs the service” when our better players like Maddison, Barnes and even Tielemans are scoring more than him is just reinforcing that he’s a very limited player who needs everything around him at the detriment of other attacking players to be perfect, because the stats show he’s not particularly clinical and the eye test shows he can’t create the movement and chances for himself, which we have been so used to seeing Vardy do both for years. 
 

No one is saying Daka is outright crap, but there’s definitely a lot more to it than just “he needs the service” and “play to his strengths, regardless of the rest of the side” is such a lazy defence and people were using it for about 18 months for Ndidi before realising that it’s more just an indication of how limited and one-note the player is.
 

If you need to build an entire team round a player, at the detriment of the rest of the balance of your side, just so he can get you 15 goals a season - and people are complaining we’re not creating enough for him when both our wingers and deep-lying midfielder clearly actually are still scoring goals at a decent rate in the way we’re currently set up - then there’s probably a lot better and far less limited and restrictive you could get in the centre forward position at this level.
 

You need to be exceptional to be so limited and get everyone around you to only play one way in the PL, which we’re told by those defending Daka he needs, and Daka just isn’t that kind of level to be worth building the side around.

I've not once said build a team round him or that we need to play solely to his strengths have I? We can still havebe more creative and create more chances for him without having to change the entire way we want to play, they aren't mutually exclusive.

[coolhandfox]

8 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

Spot on. Daka scores easy goals and doesn't take part in any build up play really. Would he score 20 goals in the prem? No chance. Vardy or Kelechi have and will. And comparing him to Mitrovic is absurd, totally different forwards.

 6 out of Haaland 20 goals have been easy taps, you not counting them. 

 

He doesn't take penalties either, which are a nice stat padder for forwards, 20% of Vardy PL goals have been penalties, you taking them off him because they are easy goals?

 

How taps do you think Vardy has scored?