Sowah (Loan)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

When you see players like Sancho and Sane go for over 50m, it puts it into light how hard it is to get a top class winger.

The thing is, I don't think we need anything like a top class winger. We just need someone better than what we already have. I've seen a few people say that it's not realistic to expect the club to go out and slap 40-50m on a winger and I agree with that completely but that's not the calibre of player necessary to improve our squad.

 

Benrahma, Bowen, Neto, Raphinha, Saint-Maximin, Harrison, Richarlison (to Watford) Trossard, James, Adama and Bertrand Traore, Podence, Martinelli and Torres have all come in for at most £20m in recent years. Closer to £30m you've got Bergwijn, Bailey, Sarr and Fornals. Quite a few of those aren't particularly outstanding players - some of them are actually pretty crap in my opinion - but I think virtually every single one of them would represent an improvement either on our starting options on the right or our depth options on the left (because there aren't any). Adama might not but at least he's shit in an entertaining sort of way.

 

Granted, it might have been difficult the past few windows to get someone half-decent in, but it's not like this wasn't a problem area for us before the pandemic either. I understand we don't have an endless pot of money but it's frustrating that we're again looking at the possibility of another season without having properly addressed the winger issue.

[sacreblueits442]

18 minutes ago, Guest said:

The thing is, I don't think we need anything like a top class winger. We just need someone better than what we already have. I've seen a few people say that it's not realistic to expect the club to go out and slap 40-50m on a winger and I agree with that completely but that's not the calibre of player necessary to improve our squad.

 

Benrahma, Bowen, Neto, Raphinha, Saint-Maximin, Harrison, Richarlison (to Watford) Trossard, James, Adama and Bertrand Traore, Podence, Martinelli and Torres have all come in for at most £20m in recent years. Closer to £30m you've got Bergwijn, Bailey, Sarr and Fornals. Quite a few of those aren't particularly outstanding players - some of them are actually pretty crap in my opinion - but I think virtually every single one of them would represent an improvement either on our starting options on the right or our depth options on the left (because there aren't any). Adama might not but at least he's shit in an entertaining sort of way.

 

Granted, it might have been difficult the past few windows to get someone half-decent in, but it's not like this wasn't a problem area for us before the pandemic either. I understand we don't have an endless pot of money but it's frustrating that we're again looking at the possibility of another season without having properly addressed the winger issue.

.....totally agree with this!!!

I have said the same before, we do not need players that are sprinkled with stardust, we just need someone who is competent and can play the position. You do not need to spend big money to improve the team as it gives us another supplier to the Forwards and allows Barnes to come in to the box more as opposed to only trying to supply from the left. I have watched Chris Richards supplying from the right and he looks more dynamic and cultured than Perez ever does.

  I do not know who in the acquisition team is vetoing certain players (for this position) but he needs to step away from the recruitment process.

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

You forgot Sowah... In the Sowah thread 

Well if you follow the news, you'll know he's leaving to go to Club Brugge. So he won't be our player.

 

In fact you'll find lots of Sowah news... in the Sowah thread

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

The thing is, I don't think we need anything like a top class winger. We just need someone better than what we already have. I've seen a few people say that it's not realistic to expect the club to go out and slap 40-50m on a winger and I agree with that completely but that's not the calibre of player necessary to improve our squad.

 

 

For what it's worth I totally agree with you. But given that we didn't sign someone early on in the window, that can't be the club's thinking. Bertrand, Daka and Soumare will 100% be key players this season. Bertrand would have started twice already and Soumare has come on twice. Had Maddison not pulled up against Wolves, Daka would have come on twice too.

 

Last season we tried to get Trincao very early in the window, the Under right at the end. But this window there hasn't been a strong link for any winger. Even the Madeuke links were tenuous at best.

 

We are all waiting for the Romano tweet where he says [Winger Name Here] to Leicester Here We Go!

[Danny280995]

12 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

For what it's worth I totally agree with you. But given that we didn't sign someone early on in the window, that can't be the club's thinking. Bertrand, Daka and Soumare will 100% be key players this season. Bertrand would have started twice already and Soumare has come on twice. Had Maddison not pulled up against Wolves, Daka would have come on twice too.

 

Last season we tried to get Trincao very early in the window, the Under right at the end. But this window there hasn't been a strong link for any winger. Even the Madeuke links were tenuous at best.

 

We are all waiting for the Romano tweet where he says [Winger Name Here] to Leicester Here We Go!

Yeah another shit winger😂

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Well if you follow the news, you'll know he's leaving to go to Club Brugge. So he won't be our player.

 

In fact you'll find lots of Sowah news... in the Sowah thread

 

 

thatll teach me to pop onto the forum during work haha. Good for him 

[Nicolo Barella]

4 hours ago, Guest said:

The thing is, I don't think we need anything like a top class winger. We just need someone better than what we already have. I've seen a few people say that it's not realistic to expect the club to go out and slap 40-50m on a winger and I agree with that completely but that's not the calibre of player necessary to improve our squad.

 

Benrahma, Bowen, Neto, Raphinha, Saint-Maximin, Harrison, Richarlison (to Watford) Trossard, James, Adama and Bertrand Traore, Podence, Martinelli and Torres have all come in for at most £20m in recent years. Closer to £30m you've got Bergwijn, Bailey, Sarr and Fornals. Quite a few of those aren't particularly outstanding players - some of them are actually pretty crap in my opinion - but I think virtually every single one of them would represent an improvement either on our starting options on the right or our depth options on the left (because there aren't any). Adama might not but at least he's shit in an entertaining sort of way.

 

Granted, it might have been difficult the past few windows to get someone half-decent in, but it's not like this wasn't a problem area for us before the pandemic either. I understand we don't have an endless pot of money but it's frustrating that we're again looking at the possibility of another season without having properly addressed the winger issue.

I would take even Traore a thousand times over Perez in this team. If we had someone like him to progress the ball halfway up the field immediately after winning possession, it wouldn't matter how shit his end product would be, we have enough decent finishers in our team to take advantage of that. Sure he would be frustrating, but less frustrating than Perez.

[wattolcfc]

I want a winger as much as the next person but the problem with upgrading for the sake of it, is that you end up with Perez who was an upgrade on Ghezzal - for £30m. 

I think we all agree that we should have prioritised signing a winger before any other signing.

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, wattolcfc said:

I want a winger as much as the next person but the problem with upgrading for the sake of it, is that you end up with Perez who was an upgrade on Ghezzal - for £30m. 

I think we all agree that we should have prioritised signing a winger before any other signing.

Comments like this annoy me. When we signed Ghezzal and Perez at both times we badly needed a winger, we for whatever reason made a horrendous decision to sign them over other options. Ghezzal we could have got on loan with an option to buy and yet chose to sign him from the off and Perez deal was just horrible.

 

There's still players in that position that are good players that we could get for less than £15m, I've done list after list. This notion that we shouldn't bring one in for the sake of it is ridiculous. We have no problem bringing 1500 central midfielders and defenders in when we decide we need one and it not be frivolous or the wrong decision.

[UHDrive]

25 minutes ago, wattolcfc said:

I want a winger as much as the next person but the problem with upgrading for the sake of it, is that you end up with Perez who was an upgrade on Ghezzal - for £30m. 

I think we all agree that we should have prioritised signing a winger before any other signing.

Perez wasn't bought in as a winger though, he was bought in to link up play between CM and Strikers/wingers. BR spent a lot of time that season trying to get Maddison on the left to do the same and Perez on the right doing the same role.

 

Where I think it went wrong is that Tielemans was behind Maddison and neither have much pace which meant that Perez was further forward because we have more pace with our right backs/full backs on the right and ndidi who would often move ahead of tielemans. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

16 hours ago, Guest said:

The thing is, I don't think we need anything like a top class winger. We just need someone better than what we already have. I've seen a few people say that it's not realistic to expect the club to go out and slap 40-50m on a winger and I agree with that completely but that's not the calibre of player necessary to improve our squad.

 

Benrahma, Bowen, Neto, Raphinha, Saint-Maximin, Harrison, Richarlison (to Watford) Trossard, James, Adama and Bertrand Traore, Podence, Martinelli and Torres have all come in for at most £20m in recent years. Closer to £30m you've got Bergwijn, Bailey, Sarr and Fornals. Quite a few of those aren't particularly outstanding players - some of them are actually pretty crap in my opinion - but I think virtually every single one of them would represent an improvement either on our starting options on the right or our depth options on the left (because there aren't any). Adama might not but at least he's shit in an entertaining sort of way.

 

Granted, it might have been difficult the past few windows to get someone half-decent in, but it's not like this wasn't a problem area for us before the pandemic either. I understand we don't have an endless pot of money but it's frustrating that we're again looking at the possibility of another season without having properly addressed the winger issue.

Thing is, is that the profile of player the club go for? The club seem to strive for value, player growth and resale potential. Why spend £20-30m on someone who falls into the category of "at least he's better than Perez" when you could potentially buy the next Mahrez. 

 

I mean, I agree with your overall point, that we need just about anybody at this point, but ultimately it's about what the club is going to realistically do and they've proven then don't just spend money for the sake of it. 

[Haywood_6]

16 hours ago, Guest said:

The thing is, I don't think we need anything like a top class winger. We just need someone better than what we already have. I've seen a few people say that it's not realistic to expect the club to go out and slap 40-50m on a winger and I agree with that completely but that's not the calibre of player necessary to improve our squad.

 

Benrahma, Bowen, Neto, Raphinha, Saint-Maximin, Harrison, Richarlison (to Watford) Trossard, James, Adama and Bertrand Traore, Podence, Martinelli and Torres have all come in for at most £20m in recent years. Closer to £30m you've got Bergwijn, Bailey, Sarr and Fornals. Quite a few of those aren't particularly outstanding players - some of them are actually pretty crap in my opinion - but I think virtually every single one of them would represent an improvement either on our starting options on the right or our depth options on the left (because there aren't any). Adama might not but at least he's shit in an entertaining sort of way.

 

Granted, it might have been difficult the past few windows to get someone half-decent in, but it's not like this wasn't a problem area for us before the pandemic either. I understand we don't have an endless pot of money but it's frustrating that we're again looking at the possibility of another season without having properly addressed the winger issue.

[Ric Flair]

16 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Thing is, is that the profile of player the club go for? The club seem to strive for value, player growth and resale potential. Why spend £20-30m on someone who falls into the category of "at least he's better than Perez" when you could potentially buy the next Mahrez. 

 

I mean, I agree with your overall point, that we need just about anybody at this point, but ultimately it's about what the club is going to realistically do and they've proven then don't just spend money for the sake of it. 

I've just posted the complete opposite. We no longer are interested in buying young, very unpolished players in the less than £10m bracket. It's like we deem them too risky and so we find it harder to add more than 2 or 3 players each season.

 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

This hasn't gone through yet. Could it be contingent on a few things?

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Chocolate Teapot said:

This hasn't gone through yet. Could it be contingent on a few things?

I bloody well hope so Teapot.

 

The more I think about this, the more it annoys me. I get loaning him out, or being tempted to sell if it means we have plenty to of added extras to the deal and it helps us get another winger in who's ready right now to improve us.

 

However if that isn't the case then what on earth are we doing? We all accept that when it comes to wingers we don't seem that good at recruiting them in recent years, the only one we've got whose quality has come through our ranks and had we made the same decision with Barnes as we are seemingly doing with Sowah then he'd have been gone for several million when he wasn't yet ready for the PL after absolutely ripping it up in the Championship.

 

Fans can claim Rodgers doesn't rate Sowah but think back to the 2 times Barnes came back from Barnsley and then West Brom. Everyone was chomping at the bit when Puel got him back after Barnsley and then he played in the FA Cup games and was like a lost boy. He went back out on loan to West Brom the following summer and again we got him back after being arguably the best attacking midfielder/winger in the league upstanding Grealish and Mason Mount and yet he still wasn't that dominant until Rodgers got hold of him. At any point had someone offered us £8m with various add ons there'd have been fans on here saying we should take it and had we done so that the manager was right not to rate him etc.

 

But if we aren't going to buy young raw attacking players and develop them then we've got to make it a priority to spend the finances needed to get a right winger of the required calibre to make an impact here. We get linked with wingers below £15m who we opt not to sign and they move elsewhere like Bowen, Olise, Adli etc and yet ones that cost more than that we can't get either as we haven't got the money. No wonder we're where we are. Someone needs to make a brave decision. 

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

3 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Thing is, is that the profile of player the club go for? The club seem to strive for value, player growth and resale potential. Why spend £20-30m on someone who falls into the category of "at least he's better than Perez" when you could potentially buy the next Mahrez. 

 

I mean, I agree with your overall point, that we need just about anybody at this point, but ultimately it's about what the club is going to realistically do and they've proven then don't just spend money for the sake of it. 

....we have made an absolute mess of this!!!

We chased Trincao and looked to pay £40m+ for him the whole of last seasons transfer window, he eventually went to Wolves for £19.8m the next season. We have chased Berardi in this summer window and looking at a similar fee between £30-40m and failed to pick up available talent that was more than accessible for half the price, and no more than £30m. My favourite was Pereira (now at Al Hilal) went for £16.2m, a player who could play right across the front line, and had proved he could play in the Premier League without having to adjust to the pace of the game, totally "oven ready" , with the versatility Rodgers claims he is looking for, but we let him pass us by.

  We really do not need to have a ready made star in the position, we needed someone who could  eventually excel in the role and provide better support than the present incumbent, even if we are looking into the championship or further afield in their lower leagues.

  At this very moment I would have KDH playing in that position, he can create, work for the team, can finish and can read the game well. I am not a fan of playing people out of position but at this moment he can do a better job from that position, than what we seen from Perez.

[Les-TA-Jon]

38 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I've just posted the complete opposite. We no longer are interested in buying young, very unpolished players in the less than £10m bracket. It's like we deem them too risky and so we find it harder to add more than 2 or 3 players each season.

Are there even sub £10m players anymore? I mean we spent £20m on Soyuncu, £30m on Fofana, £20m on Daka. Those are all young unpolished players, with huge potential and resale value. 

[An Sionnach]

Sowah , at the moment anyway , would only be a bench player  for us. However he gives Rodgers an option when needed . If the opposition LB shows a weakness he could exploit it. I personally doubt that Rodgers would want a RW as a fixture in the team given that he can't afford a player of the highest class. I would hope the lad has a good football brain which could make him far more useful than Grey ever was. This all may be too late of course if he has indeed decided he wants Bruges.

[sacreblueits442]

7 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Are there even sub £10m players anymore? I mean we spent £20m on Soyuncu, £30m on Fofana, £20m on Daka. Those are all young unpolished players, with huge potential and resale value. 

....I am sure there is a very lucrative stream of players plying themselves in the French lower leagues!!!

The trick is to identify the potential and invest in it. We now see ourselves as too entrenched in a fight for Champions League to want to go to those markets and now look for ready made players to fill the positions.

    Wenger very much was the manager who had the foresight to work from the African Market and pulled out a lot of gems. Eventually other clubs followed then it became not so easy to take your pick of the best player available. The French upper and lower leagues are still very much the avenue for players from Africa (this also includes, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt etc) where there is the potential for great talent, we just have to be brave enough to work in these markets.

[Ric Flair]

44 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Are there even sub £10m players anymore? I mean we spent £20m on Soyuncu, £30m on Fofana, £20m on Daka. Those are all young unpolished players, with huge potential and resale value. 

Yes there's quality players sub £10m but there's a plethora in the £10-15m bracket that was the old £6-8m thst we used to purchase and have now completely opted to swerve.

 

Michael Olise was a bargain at £8m this season, just you wait until he's fully fit at Palace. He's every bit as talented as Eze. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

43 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....I am sure there is a very lucrative stream of players plying themselves in the French lower leagues!!!

The trick is to identify the potential and invest in it. We now see ourselves as too entrenched in a fight for Champions League to want to go to those markets and now look for ready made players to fill the positions.

    Wenger very much was the manager who had the foresight to work from the African Market and pulled out a lot of gems. Eventually other clubs followed then it became not so easy to take your pick of the best player available. The French upper and lower leagues are still very much the avenue for players from Africa (this also includes, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt etc) where there is the potential for great talent, we just have to be brave enough to work in these markets.

Where on earth is the evidence for this supposed shift in strategy? 

 

We signed a 19 year old with less than 50 appearances in Fofana. Daka has only played in the Austrian league. Soumare is only 22 and less than 100 games 

 

 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes there's quality players sub £10m but there's a plethora in the £10-15m bracket that was the old £6-8m thst we used to purchase and have now completely opted to swerve.

 

Michael Olise was a bargain at £8m this season, just you wait until he's fully fit at Palace. He's every bit as talented as Eze. 

Can't help but think he was an absolute no brainer of a signing. Absolute worst case scenario and he flopped a Championship club would have given us our money back.

[FoxOnWheels]

If we aren’t going to replace him then this is an awful decision to sell, do we really need that kind of money that much to leave us with a joke of right wing options. He may not be ready yet but he offers different to the other 2 on that side and could be needed in various games.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Thing is, is that the profile of player the club go for? The club seem to strive for value, player growth and resale potential. Why spend £20-30m on someone who falls into the category of "at least he's better than Perez" when you could potentially buy the next Mahrez. 

 

I mean, I agree with your overall point, that we need just about anybody at this point, but ultimately it's about what the club is going to realistically do and they've proven then don't just spend money for the sake of it. 

I do agree that we shouldn't just sign someone for the sake of signing someone because that's how you end up with piles of deadwood who take an eternity to shift, as we know better than pretty much anyone. Having three not great right wingers, for instance, doesn't put really us in a better position than having two and it's more expensive to boot. 

 

However, lots of those players I mentioned do satisfy all or most of those criteria. Some of them are borderline dossers who I wouldn't want near our starting eleven, but if we want to talk value for money, potential and resale value then our signing of Perez does not compare favourably to someone like Raphinha, Neto or ASM.

 

Realistically I think the days of us plucking some mystery winger from nowhere for a few hundred grand and him strolling into the first team are over, and equally the days of us being a financial powerhouse who can take whoever we want without really giving a shit about the price are very much a distant dream. My point was that there is plenty of value to be had in the space between, proven repeatedly by less attractive teams with fewer resources than us going out and acquiring good first-choice wingers for about the same as we've just spent on a fourth-choice centre back with a year left on his contract. It should be well, well within our capabilities to make noticeable improvements there without breaking the bank, and maybe we'd have done so without Fofana's injury. I've got very few complaints about our transfer policy (and given my whining here I can see why you might think otherwise) but our continuing blind spot for wingers is hurting us imo.

[jeffschlupp]

Not in training this morning - this is all done pending a visa