West Ham United 4-1 Leicester City - Post Match Thread

[Foxy-Lady]

11 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

My god when the going gets tough we crumble. 

Are you referring to the team performance last night.........or all the doom-mongers posting on this thread today??

 

Seem to recall Man City winning the title last season after we had thrashed them 5-1....even the best teams and best managers have their off-days.

For those supporters on here who have only been following LCFC since 2015, welcome to how life always used to be for some of us...!

[Ricey]

I felt genuinely embarrassed watching that last night. It wasn't even the hiding we eventually was given, it was the passing it around at the back for the first half an hour, devoid of any movement, speed of play or creative plan. It was the way almost every West Ham player bullied us. It was the way we totally fell to pieces yet again.

 

But above all of that I'm annoyed that we have learnt absolutely FA from the two matches against them last season. We had to least try and compete physically, but instead he left the very player we've signed for these type of matches on the bench and persisted with Maddison, even though we know he's non existent against teams like West Ham.

 

We won't face teams like West Ham every match, but a good chunk of our games will be against teams that sit deep, press hard and try to bully us. Fulham, Everton, Southampton, Newcastle and Slavia all did it really well against us last season.

 

I really like Rodgers but I wish we'd play with a bit more fire in our bellies. It so often so flat, slow and predictable. Soumare and Vestergaard should help the physical side, but we only have two genuinely creative players in the squad (Barnes and Maddison) and one of those that's bullied out of a lot of matches, plus both have had injury problems.

 

We can not let the transfer window pass without at least trying to resolve the issue we have on the right wing. If we don't sign anyone you can kiss goodbye to getting anywhere near the top 4 this season.

[Whys it always me]

Some of our fans reactions are laughable at time. We were poor across the park and genuinely had a bad day at the office. West Ham were organised and did a job on us this happens in football to the best teams in the league. 
 

looking at some of the comments about Thomas frustrate me. It wasn’t his best game by any stretch but we forget he’s just turned 20 was arguably one of our better players last week yet he’s now not good enough for us? He will be inconsistent and had no protection from anyone was asked to drop in as a 3rd CB by the looks of it and at times looked lost according to some……yes maybe he did at times as he’s playing a position he wouldn’t usually play. 
 

I’ve also seen comments that he looked tired and if we look at pre season he played no more that 45 minutes in any game and Bertrand was given the lions share of minutes so we can assume bertrand is number 1 based on that yet Thomas has been asked to step in against two physical sides played brilliant in one game and not so good in the other. 
 

West Ham will cause a lot of teams problems and many more experienced LB will also have a difficult time against them. Would Bertrand have done any better last night….I’m not sure he would and the reason for that is we were poor. 
 

Some fans are questioning Rodgers tactical ability yet we’ve been to Wembley twice and won against the so called big six. Anyone that thinks he needs should have a word with themselves. 
 

Accept the better side won and move on rather than hammer the players, I’m sure none of them walked of the pitch thinking they were good. 

[Fox1norfolk]

29 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

This is spot on. Bizarre how people think the two CDs were passing to each other because they'd been told to (or in Amartey's case because he's scared to - which given he was the only one passing it forwards says something pretty unpleasant about Cags). 

 

Lack of movement (to the point where the word 'hiding' starts getting mentioned) meant passes out were all high tariff, slide-rule stuff, and when they did make them our midfield inevitably miscontrolled them (and not always under pressure)

 

Can't see how some go straight to the defence to aportion the blame when in midfield Perez was actually looking the best of them til he got sent off. And to be clear, he was looking pretty shit

 

Ndidi was a shadow of the player he can be, our fans should have been shouting "he's behind you" every time an apparently bonged up Youri had the ball and it feels more and more like Maddison would be better off coming out in skateboarding gear 

 

 

Agree with you comments. The problem is that teams have sussed us out and last nights performance clearly illustrated that. Our main attack force Barnes and Maddison were surrounded by two or three defenders and were given no room. The right wing attack was virtually non existence. The killer through balls to Vardy they were aware of and tactical defending cancelled that route out. Although we had far more of the ball we did not do anything with it. They would have won even if Perez had not been sent off.

 

The best form of attack is surprise and we had £40 million plus sitting on the bench until the last few minutes. All the players in the Premier know how individual players like to play and all the pre planning and training can counteract that. However, we had Daka and Sumare who WH would have never played against which just might have surprised them. Why were they not used until it was too late.  

 

[RowlattsFox]

I think our front 4 are really shown up at times. I think it's right to say the build up is slow and passing around the back etc but I think a lot of it comes from our front 4 being unable to get hold of it unless they have space to work. Vardy marks himself unless the through ball is on, Barnes needs space to run and first touch can be wayward, Maddison is easily bullied and we all know about Perez. That's the difference between the better sides and us, they can control the ball higher up the pitch. 

[Ricey]

2 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

I think our front 4 are really shown up at times. I think it's right to say the build up is slow and passing around the back etc but I think a lot of it comes from our front 4 being unable to get hold of it unless they have space to work. Vardy marks himself unless the through ball is on, Barnes needs space to run and first touch can be wayward, Maddison is easily bullied and we all know about Perez. That's the difference between the better sides and us, they can control the ball higher up the pitch. 

In matches like last night we have to stop starting Vardy, it's fairly pointless.

[ealingfox]

I'm not sure why us passing it around the back, at least during the first half, has got people's backs up so much? Pretty standard practice away from home isn't it.

[RonnieTodger]

On the positive side, them Hammers were bloody brilliant weren't they?

Three cheers for Antonio!

[Pliskin]

10 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

Agree with you comments. The problem is that teams have sussed us out and last nights performance clearly illustrated that. Our main attack force Barnes and Maddison were surrounded by two or three defenders and were given no room. The right wing attack was virtually non existence. The killer through balls to Vardy they were aware of and tactical defending cancelled that route out. Although we had far more of the ball we did not do anything with it. They would have won even if Perez had not been sent off.

 

The best form of attack is surprise and we had £40 million plus sitting on the bench until the last few minutes. All the players in the Premier know how individual players like to play and all the pre planning and training can counteract that. However, we had Daka and Sumare who WH would have never played against which just might have surprised them. Why were they not used until it was too late.  

 

I’m not sure it’s even down to being sussed out. There’s nothing really to suss. We are a side that largely relies on momentum. So momentum of the full backs, Barnes and Vardy/Kalechi. 
 

We like to play out from the back and normally like to invite the opponent to come at us, but the difference is when we’re having a bad day, we don’t have the quality that the likes of Liverpool, United, City and Chelsea have to be able to drag themselves through the game. 
 

We need to be better off the ball, our movement needs to be sharper, last night Perez, Barnes, Maddison and Vardy all faced one way and played in one direction, it’s all too easy for teams to play against, especially when you’re having a bad day.

 

The biggest culprit to slowing us down is Maddison, he (as well as everyone else) was dreadful, he spends far too long on the ball looking to make something happen, and you can’t do that against West Ham, what he should have been doing was sticking the ball into the channels for Barnes and Vardy to chase, try and turn the West Ham back line, stretch them a little, just make them sweat. 
 

We will have games like that this season, where we are slow an ponderous and we will get beaten, but I think sometimes Brendan needs to be a little braver with his team selection. Put a Praet in against West Ham, someone to just get hold of the ball and be a bit more active off it, Praet gets a bit of stick but off the ball he’s one of our better players.

 

Thing is with us? You can tell within the first ten minutes of things are going to work or not, the only concerning this is, is that this has been our Achilles heel in the last three seasons, we have these rotten spells where we’re just awful, possibly the easiest team in the league to beat, and then he have spells where we look like to would take Barcelona to the cleaners.

 

Still, we’re missing a defence, and things probably won’t get easier until we can put out a defence, if you’re weak at the back it’s a sure way to lose football matches, there’s no real point in blaming training or medical staff, it is what it is at the moment, we may need to sign yet another CB. 

[drumbeat]

1 hour ago, turtmcfly said:

 

This is spot on. Bizarre how people think the two CDs were passing to each other because they'd been told to (or in Amartey's case because he's scared to - which given he was the only one passing it forwards says something pretty unpleasant about Cags). 

 

Hmmm, reads like you're referring to something I wrote on another thread. If so, that's a little bit of a misinterpretation.

 

If the instruction was to make the safe pass, to not risk giving away possession, then that's a little different to 'only pass to each other'  I don't think Amartey's scared either, I think he's cautious and I'd like to see him become more confident - because his passing is good, and getting better. I remarked on that after the preseason games.   Cags passing forward was poor last night, a number of those chipped passes went astray.

 

I think there's a broader point and that's that perhaps there were often no safe passes on for our CBs, and for that I think you have to give some credit to WH. Antonio particularly was dropping off to cover out balls to Ndidi, Rice and Soucek were tying up Maddison and Tielemens. I only read that in reports btw; watching the game on TV doesn't give you a full field perspective. 

 

Edit: I said "reads like you're referring to something I wrote on another thread"... after reading comments on this thread, maybe not. Coincidence praps.

Edited 24 August 2021 by drumbeat

[coolhandfox]

4 hours ago, gerblod said:

Why do you believe Bertrand and Castagne would have made such a difference? Ricardo and Thomas performed well enough considering the absence of any dynamism and creativity in defence.

Thomas is a unexperienced player playing only he's 3rd or 4th game in front of a fans, he never experience crowd of 60k home fans, so yes I think a old head in Bertrand would have been useful. When everyone is fit his more than likely 3rd of 4th choice left back behind Bertrand, Justin, Castange. 

 

4 hours ago, gerblod said:

Amartey has no confidence in himself in carrying the ball forward. Given the choice he will always pass across or back - that pattern became clear almost immediately. West Ham pressed high and pinned the back four down straightaway.

He isn't good enough to start in a team with aspirations of a top half Premier position.

What do you expect of our 5th choice CB, he would'nt be anywhere near the starting 11 if Evans, Fofana, Vesterguard are fit.

 

4 hours ago, gerblod said:

 

 

He's being asked too much of. I believe Castagne would have done better in his place. At a pinch maybe even Choudhury.

Castagne isn't match fit and Choudhury has never played as a CB. 

 

4 hours ago, gerblod said:

For all the recruitment done, it's apparent City are still paper-thin at the back. Evans may never be able to play at the same level again.

Are you for really we have Evan, Fofana, Vestiguard, Justin and Bertrand unavailable, 5 first team defenders 

 

4 hours ago, gerblod said:

For all the genuine ability of Tielemans and N'Didi, there's something missing in that area of the pitch. Was Soumare supposed to be an answer to that? I've read the word 'bullied' frequently in comments last night - 'herded' is also apt. We needed a scrapper - someone to disrupt the press, someone who wouldn't be bullied.

Soumare has only just joined the club, new country, new league, his time will come.

 

 

4 hours ago, gerblod said:

Rodgers. Moyes demonstrated that the dubious accolade of 'Best British Manager is now his. Before the match started he'd sussed out there'd be no surprises from Rodgers. 

Why take off Barnes - he'd created problems when the opportunities arose? Why wait until a quarter of an hour remaining  to make significant changes?

We desperately need James Justin back, but, until he and Fofana are fit again, Rodgers has to start finding answers to obvious problems. He's a terrific manager in many ways but he has awful blind spots.

 

 

 

 

Barnes probably because he's only just come back form a major injury 

 

Moyes PL career win %---- 39%, no major trophies 

Rodgers PL career win%---44%, FA Cup.

 

Winning a couple of battles doesn't mean you have won the war.

[Leicesterpool]

Last night mirrored the performance against Bournemouth a few seasons ago, team looked lost and clueless and allowed themselves to be bullied. Soncyhu had a mare last night. Perez getting sent for awful challenge didnt help, only positive thing I can say it means he will be out for the next game. Much prefer starting with albrighton anyway.

Edited 24 August 2021 by Leicesterpool

[Bazly]

I would say after that display Brendan needs a bit of a rethink.

 

You can go on about all the back of field injuries and they are for certain going to hold us back this season but last night the entire machine ground to a halt. Midfield was abject, constantly giving the ball away and Vardy may as well have stayed at home. Vardy doesn't fit this slow service midfield with Madders playing in a line or with Perez playing a particularly poor number 10 role. The team craves a proper creative and direct number 10. I'd look to drop Vardy and give Natcho a run as the opening striker. Vardy hasn't scored for fun for almost a whole year now. But Natcho needs players who can run at the defence alongside him to create space and deliver telling balls as he isn't quick enough to do that himself and only Barnes fits that role or Ricardo when he is miles out of position leaving us exposed at the back. Perez just needs packing off somewhere for the rest of his career.

 

As things are trending from the arse end of last season when we had a lot of shit show performances and the more of the same shit fest last night I think we need to concentrate on a 40 point season first before anything else. Use this season to transition away from Vardy and get our long term injured players, three of whom would be first team regulars, back and fit and performing ready for next season.

[Dan.Reynolds]

We was never ever going to get anything last night.

 

Didn't matter who played, we just got bullied like usual against West Ham.

[Leicesterpool]

Problem for me last night was, you looked at the bench there was no real game changers. Which summed up what a small squad we still have for me, the starting xi we have got is very good but if we have a couple of injuries or two players have a mare, that's it were done. I think were in need of two more before the window closes possibly two wingers. 

Edited 24 August 2021 by Leicesterpool

[Manini]

48 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

On the positive side, them Hammers were bloody brilliant weren't they?

Three cheers for Antonio!

If that Antonio doesn’t win player of the season there’s no bloody justice! 

[suffolk fox]

12 hours ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

This is becoming painful. One of the goals actually began with him giving the ball back to them. Think it was the second. And he’s been like it for a while now. Sometimes people need to acknowledge their limitations…

This is right re the second goal.  I was behind the goal at the game Kasper called for the ball clear as day hence Soyuncu making a pass back without looking.

[Eskay]

Bad night last night - the positive is we can put it right against Norwich....show we mean business and really put a show on for the travelling fans.

 

If I was Rogers I would look at 2 things:

1. Getting Soumare up to speed
2. Getting Kel back in the team - its mad to think hes sidelined now after being our best player in the second half of last season

At the moment we have too many players that are in the 'I hope he can have a good game this week' category. They're not steady performers and the inconsistency is infuriating. Ndidi, Tilemans, Soyuncu, Kasper are the only ones who play more often than not, in the same gear week in week out. We need to add a midfielder to that list and 2 more of the defence if we want to get anywhere.

 

BR will have them ready for next week and they will be pissed off (I hope) by that performance.

[Eskay]

3 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

Problem for me last night was, you looked at the bench there was no real game changers. Which summed up what a small squad we still have for me, the starting xi we have got is very good but if we have a couple of injuries or two players have a mare, that's it were done. I think were in need of two more before the window closes possibly two wingers. 

Kel & Daka would beg to differ

[turtmcfly]

6 minutes ago, drumbeat said:

Hmmm, reads like you're referring to something I wrote on another thread. If so, that's a little bit of a misinterpretation.

 

If the instruction was to make the safe pass, to not risk giving away possession, then that's a little different to 'only pass to each other'  I don't think Amartey's scared either, I think he's cautious and I'd like to see him become more confident - because his passing is good, and getting better. I remarked on that after the preseason games.   Cags passing forward was poor last night, a number of those chipped passes went astray.

 

I think there's a broader point and that's that perhaps there were often no safe passes on for our CBs, and for that I think you have to give some credit to WH. Antonio particularly was dropping off to cover out balls to Ndidi, Rice and Soucek were tying up Maddison and Tielemens. I only read that in reports btw; watching the game on TV doesn't give you a full field perspective. 

 

Not your post at all. 

 

Indeed the remainder of your post is pretty much what I think too. Amartey is a better passer than nearly everyone on here gives him credit for (as I've mentioned before he has a very 'deliberate' style of release which could be mistaken for a lack of confidence, but if you look where the ball actuall goes much more often than not...). The run he went on in the second half was lovely, and ended with a superb ball to the touch line. Personally I find the 'bomb scare' comments more applicable to Cags and his 'I could play in midfield me' approach, and I think Cags' generally poor passing (not just in this game) gets somewhat ignored because he's a 'proper' footballer.

 

And yes, safe passes were in fairly short supply (due to poor movement in midfield) but they were there and passes were made to feet and balls were... miscontrolled, often under minimal pressure. Which I suppose means that if you're Amartey or Cags you start to wonder if even the safe passes that do present themselves are safe.

 

Last night, finding space, a decent first touch and moving the ball quickly when it is controlled (and then repeat) were paramount, and in all cases the things we were miserably missing. I don't think we 'played into their hands' (I don't think I've seen one post detailing what we should have done tactically), I think we played shit.

 

 

 

[drumbeat]

45 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

we have these rotten spells where we’re just awful, possibly the easiest team in the league to beat

Agreed, and the 'how' is telegraphed, a blue-print even. If a team can set-up and play a certain way then we will struggle against them. We still don't seem to be able to adapt to that style of play either. A few of the teams some deem 'shithouse' can do it. It's possibly Chelsea I fear most though, I reckon they could rip us to shreds... and maybe now with Lukaku they will.  

[ARM1968]

1 hour ago, Whys it always me said:

Some of our fans reactions are laughable at time. We were poor across the park and genuinely had a bad day at the office. West Ham were organised and did a job on us this happens in football to the best teams in the league. 
 

looking at some of the comments about Thomas frustrate me. It wasn’t his best game by any stretch but we forget he’s just turned 20 was arguably one of our better players last week yet he’s now not good enough for us? He will be inconsistent and had no protection from anyone was asked to drop in as a 3rd CB by the looks of it and at times looked lost according to some……yes maybe he did at times as he’s playing a position he wouldn’t usually play. 
 

I’ve also seen comments that he looked tired and if we look at pre season he played no more that 45 minutes in any game and Bertrand was given the lions share of minutes so we can assume bertrand is number 1 based on that yet Thomas has been asked to step in against two physical sides played brilliant in one game and not so good in the other. 
 

West Ham will cause a lot of teams problems and many more experienced LB will also have a difficult time against them. Would Bertrand have done any better last night….I’m not sure he would and the reason for that is we were poor. 
 

Some fans are questioning Rodgers tactical ability yet we’ve been to Wembley twice and won against the so called big six. Anyone that thinks he needs should have a word with themselves. 
 

Accept the better side won and move on rather than hammer the players, I’m sure none of them walked of the pitch thinking they were good. 

The trouble is, that’s three bad days at the office on the trot against West Ham. Brendan is a good manager, but seems slow to learn and incredibly stubborn.  No rocket science needed to work out how West Ham were going to play - it’s the Moyes way. You compete with it or you fail. We aren’t Man City. We’re not good enough to hold the ball and pass round them, so we have to compete. We didn’t. AGAIN. 
 

Injuries are not helping us that is true, but neither is stubbornly sticking to a failed formula. Each team presents its own challenges and the challenge of West Ham is obvious to most. 

[Leicesterpool]

I agree about Kel he needs to be starting for me I'm not sure why hes been sidelined behind Perez. 

[murphy]

12 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

It's often the way though. We come up against fast, aggressive teams who like to counter and we just implode. I'd love us in games like this to set traps and actually give them the ball and low block them and see what happens after 20 minutes.

Agreed.  That's why at 1-0 I wasn't overly concerned when Perez went off.  Perhaps it would force Rodgers' hand?  Get some pace on, Daka for Maddison, sit back and counter West Ham.  Didn't really work out that way, obviously.

[drumbeat]

4 minutes ago, suffolk fox said:

I was behind the goal at the game Kasper called for the ball clear as day hence Soyuncu making a pass back without looking.

Thanks, I was wondering whether Cags wasn't entirely culpable... that said, it was a god awful pass, can't blame anyone other than Cags for that!