Energy Prices 🙄

[damolcfc]

Wow.... 

British Gas have offered a new deal of £145 a month.. up from £64pm....

I shopped around..... 

Eon came up best... but I think not 😆😆

Bulb looked ok.... but look in trouble

[leicsmac]

The energy companies in the UK act as a cartel rather than competitively to benefit the consumer and have done for years.

 

The regulator is failing in its duty.

[FoxesDeb]

When anyone is choosing an energy provider you need to compare the actual energy rates offered, not the monthly payments. The rates are what are fixed, not the monthly direct debit amount, this is just an estimate based on what they think you will use over 12 months.

 

 

[blabyboy]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

The energy companies in the UK act as a cartel rather than competitively to benefit the consumer and have done for years.

 

The regulator is failing in its duty.

I disagree here. Energy companies were competitive, you only need to look at the price disparity 12 months ago where you had some suppliers over 50% cheaper than BG, Eon and others on tariffs offered - that is not a cartel in operation.

 

 

Where i would agree with you, is the regulator Ofgem has failed to regulate the types of suppliers coming into the market, especially for stress testing their survivability for spikes, which would be similar to how banks are tested for capital against defaults/sudden interest rate rises. Just a few months ago it was relatively easy to setup an 'energy company in a pack' with the required software, licences and trading platform hence the growth in that market and now the gradual collapse.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

I disagree here. Energy companies were competitive, you only need to look at the price disparity 12 months ago where you had some suppliers over 50% cheaper than BG, Eon and others on tariffs offered - that is not a cartel in operation.

 

 

Where i would agree with you, is the regulator Ofgem has failed to regulate the types of suppliers coming into the market, especially for stress testing their survivability for spikes, which would be similar to how banks are tested for capital against defaults/sudden interest rate rises. Just a few months ago it was relatively easy to setup an 'energy company in a pack' with the required software, licences and trading platform hence the growth in that market and now the gradual collapse.

Interesting, thank you for the extra information.

 

Perhaps the collapse of those "energy companies in packs" might have something to do with cartel-like behaviour from the bigger boys sorting out any "competition", though?

[Innovindil]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Interesting, thank you for the extra information.

 

Perhaps the collapse of those "energy companies in packs" might have something to do with cartel-like behaviour from the bigger boys sorting out any "competition", though?

Nah. The smaller ones literally ran on fumes to offer lower prices. The bigger ones have prepped for wholesale price rises for ages. 

 

This has undoubtedly come as a massive gift to the players like British gas that have been hemorrhaging customers for a while now though. 

[FoxesDeb]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting, thank you for the extra information.

 

Perhaps the collapse of those "energy companies in packs" might have something to do with cartel-like behaviour from the bigger boys sorting out any "competition", though?

The smaller companies had agreed fixed tariffs for their customers at cheaper prices than it cost them to buy the energy since the wholesale price has risen. 

[blabyboy]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting, thank you for the extra information.

 

Perhaps the collapse of those "energy companies in packs" might have something to do with cartel-like behaviour from the bigger boys sorting out any "competition", though?

Possibly, you can't discount it for definite. But if you are interested, then i would encourage you to look over politics of the NordStream2 gas pipe and Russian influence. You may have heard that just a few days ago when prices were continuing to climb that Putin mentioned that Russia was willing to increase supply and the gas spot price market calmed immediately..for a while. I've heard several interviews where bosses of various energy companies and advisors are always very wary of criticising our Russian friends. At present they hold the the keys for sure, especially for Germany and parts of the Flemish countries and mid-Europe. I personally feel its a powerflex by Russia who have been off the world stage lately apart from being everyone's whipping boy. Never let a good crisis go to waste as they say, and Mr Putin has been very adept with that.

 

I also think you have some rank incompetency in the govt energy dept, especially over planning and future supply.

[blabyboy]

8 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Nah. The smaller ones literally ran on fumes to offer lower prices. The bigger ones have prepped for wholesale price rises for ages. 

 

This has undoubtedly come as a massive gift to the players like British gas that have been hemorrhaging customers for a while now though. 

Hence the stress testing i mentioned. Anyone with a relatively small amount of capital could have setup as a supplier, and a few obviously did!

[blabyboy]

4 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

The smaller companies had agreed fixed tariffs for their customers at cheaper prices than it cost them to buy the energy since the wholesale price has risen. 

Again, that's the trading platform, and their inexperience with buying gas futures. Their hedging was/is woefully inadequate.

[blabyboy]

For planning and future storage, see the closure of Rough storage facility - the govt were too cheap to pay Centrica to fix the safety problems. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_(facility)

[leicsmac]

36 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Nah. The smaller ones literally ran on fumes to offer lower prices. The bigger ones have prepped for wholesale price rises for ages. 

 

This has undoubtedly come as a massive gift to the players like British gas that have been hemorrhaging customers for a while now though. 

 

31 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

The smaller companies had agreed fixed tariffs for their customers at cheaper prices than it cost them to buy the energy since the wholesale price has risen. 

All the time I'm learning more, thank you.

 

It seems like these smaller companies didn't help themselves by not accounting enough for the vagaries of the market, then.

 

Personally, I'll always be looking for the solution that offers the best deal for the consumer.

 

29 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Possibly, you can't discount it for definite. But if you are interested, then i would encourage you to look over politics of the NordStream2 gas pipe and Russian influence. You may have heard that just a few days ago when prices were continuing to climb that Putin mentioned that Russia was willing to increase supply and the gas spot price market calmed immediately..for a while. I've heard several interviews where bosses of various energy companies and advisors are always very wary of criticising our Russian friends. At present they hold the the keys for sure, especially for Germany and parts of the Flemish countries and mid-Europe. I personally feel its a powerflex by Russia who have been off the world stage lately apart from being everyone's whipping boy. Never let a good crisis go to waste as they say, and Mr Putin has been very adept with that.

 

I also think you have some rank incompetency in the govt energy dept, especially over planning and future supply.

Yep, it doesn't surprise me that geopolitics also gets involved when it comes to such vital natural resources.

 

All the more reason for energy capacity and generation to become more self-sufficient at a local level, to say nothing of lowering reliance on oil and gas for energy generation for what they contribute to climate change.

[reynard]

3 hours ago, damolcfc said:

Wow.... 

British Gas have offered a new deal of £145 a month.. up from £64pm....

I shopped around..... 

Eon came up best... but I think not 😆😆

Bulb looked ok.... but look in trouble

There was a guy on Radio4 last week from an energy comparison site who basically said there are no decent deals right now and advised people not to sign up as anything offered was massively priced.

[blabyboy]

Wind especially can also be less than green at scale. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concrete

 

And this Wired article gives a good overview of the coming solar panels problem. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-leaving-behind-toxic-trash/amp

 

We (humans) have been great at innovating, but haven't looked up to the future

[blabyboy]

7 minutes ago, reynard said:

There was a guy on Radio4 last week from an energy comparison site who basically said there are no decent deals right now and advised people not to sign up as anything offered was massively priced.

Martin Lewis - money expert- was advising this.. if you've been shifted due to a collapse then best to sit tight.

[reynard]

Just now, blabyboy said:

Martin Lewis - money expert- was advising this.. if you've been shifted due to a collapse then best to sit tight.

I didn't hear him but he's usually sound.

This will only get worse I'm afraid in the short to medium term. The cap will rise again next year and we have only the capacity to store around 4 or 5 days of gas for the winter.

We're paying the price for our drive (correctly) towards greener energy supply but I'm afraid the government didn't plan properly for the medium term before renewables come more into play and have left us exposed. Withdrawal from the Eu has also added to the cost.  In 2019 various industry people were warning "The biggest challenge facing the UK is the guarantee that energy supplies will remain affordable for businesses as well as domestic customers. If the UK leaves the EU’s single energy market, it will most likely have to pay higher prices, invest in new energy generating capacity, and accept a greater role in the energy sector. "  Of course they may be biased but it isn't helping people's financial pain right now.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Wind especially can also be less than green at scale. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concrete

 

And this Wired article gives a good overview of the coming solar panels problem. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-leaving-behind-toxic-trash/amp

 

We (humans) have been great at innovating, but haven't looked up to the future

These options are still better than the toxic byproducts that are produced from oil and gas extraction and refining, however - to say nothing of the carbon emissions that burning them produces. And such renewable tech will only get cleaner and more efficient with further development.

 

However, as I put in the Sci/Tech thread, Gen III and IV fission has to form part of the transition too.

[reynard]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

These options are still better than the toxic byproducts that are produced from oil and gas extraction and refining, however - to say nothing of the carbon emissions that burning them produces. And such renewable tech will only get cleaner and more efficient with further development.

 

However, as I put in the Sci/Tech thread, Gen III and IV fission has to form part of the transition too.

I'm ignorant about the science but what do you think about the potential use of hydrogen in the future?

[Mike Oxlong]

Surely the future’s methane 

[Scotch]

I have to say, with this massive shift in energy prices, I'm so glad that I'm imminently moving into my new house. 

Newbuild Council property which isn't only insanely insulated but comes with solar panels and a nearby biomass boiler that provides additional energy to cut costs. Hopefully makes a differance. 

Edited 9 October 2021 by Scotch

[blabyboy]

17 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

These options are still better than the toxic byproducts that are produced from oil and gas extraction and refining, however - to say nothing of the carbon emissions that burning them produces. And such renewable tech will only get cleaner and more efficient with further development.

 

However, as I put in the Sci/Tech thread, Gen III and IV fission has to form part of the transition too.

Whilst i generally agree with the overall point, i referred to concrete specifically because it requires the burning of the same carbon and associated emissions to produce it i.e. in order to get to the greener wind, you need to incur a 'dirty' debt to achieve it at least with today's manufacturing processes - vive la future! A lot of ppl discount this as part of the real cost of renewables. The same with the disposal. Nuclear is actually very green when you take in the lifetime of generation it can survive for, but the upfront cost is high and disposal has its own complications due to radioactive longevity of the fuel.

[blabyboy]

21 minutes ago, reynard said:

I'm ignorant about the science but what do you think about the potential use of hydrogen in the future?

Educate yourself 🙂

https://planetforlife.com/h2/h2swiss.html

 

In the long term, i have hopes for it, but we really need to sort the storage if it.

[blabyboy]

20 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Surely the future’s methane 

Plentiful here, storage not dissimilar to other gases. Also a good indicator of potential life on other planets so option to possibly refuel if we get there to investigate. Thumbs up from me. 

[Mike Oxlong]

Just now, blabyboy said:

Plentiful here, storage not dissimilar to other gases. Also a good indicator of potential life on other planets so option to possibly refuel if we get there to investigate. Thumbs up from me. 

And you could funnel straight from your car seat to your engine. No roadside charging infrastructure required 

[leicsmac]

28 minutes ago, reynard said:

I'm ignorant about the science but what do you think about the potential use of hydrogen in the future?

 

26 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Surely the future’s methane 

Both methane and hydrogen are possible candidates for small vehicle power, but they're impractical for the bigger stuff, from what I can tell.

 

And it is power generation that is the biggest emission contributor and the one we should focus on.

 

15 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Whilst i generally agree with the overall point, i referred to concrete specifically because it requires the burning of the same carbon and associated emissions to produce it i.e. in order to get to the greener wind, you need to incur a 'dirty' debt to achieve it at least with today's manufacturing processes - vive la future! A lot of ppl discount this as part of the real cost of renewables. The same with the disposal. Nuclear is actually very green when you take in the lifetime of generation it can survive for, but the upfront cost is high and disposal has its own complications due to radioactive longevity of the fuel.

Yep, there are certainly issues there, however what is true of both is that of you look in the long term they are much greener overall than oil or gas power generation.

 

It just needs someone to think of - and fund for - that long term.