Southampton 2-2 LCFC - Post Match Thread

[BenTheFox]

The first-half was absolutely appalling, however, the second-half performance gave me some encouragement. For the first time in a while that we've played with any intensity and a bit of swagger. We moved the ball much quicker and carved out opportunities and maybe should have seen us leave with the three points. I accept some of that comes down to Southampton not showing the same intensity as they did in the first-half, bt we were certainly better than we have been for a while. 

[Pick Good Name Later]

We made a very average Southampton team look far better than what they are last night. 

 

Not going to delve into the obvious. Same problems every week. Nothing changes.

 

For those who are still defending Rodgers. Defending the team. Stating this is a bad patch and we'll come out the other side. Rodgers is the best man for the job. No better out there. Etc etc..

 

My question.

 

What is the cut off point for you all? When does this situation not become acceptable? When is enough, enough? When does Rodgers become indefensible? 

 

 

[justfoxes]

We have to improve our defence & defending if that means getting a couple of quality defenders in January or what we’re conceding such easily silly goals that could be stopped being scored against us at times we seemed to panic when the ball comes into the box, we’re a lot better since Johnny came back but it’s worrying that our defence is so penetrating for the opposition makes you wonder at times what Kolo’s training methods are about?

 

We really can’t wait for Wes & JJ to be ready and Match fit so we need to be able to get players in that can hit the pitch running shore up that leaky defence then maybe once we have done that sort out any other positions we need to strengthen, time to get our team solid again time to get back to how we know we can perform?

OAU !

[DerbyshireFox]

First half was a shambles to be frank. We are so frustrating at times. To continually concede the goals we are doing is beyond a joke now. Having said that Southampton didn’t really create an awful lot despite having the upper hand, which makes it all the more frustrating. Second half was much better. KDH made such a huge difference and with the chances we had, we really should have taken the three points. If we keep giving sides two goals a game, we are going to find it hard to consistently pick up wins! Villa will not be easy, and if we defend like that Sunday, I can’t see us taking any points from Villa park. Barnes is frustrating me so much at the moment, he doesn’t seem to have the conviction to run at a full back, and speed of decision making is too sluggish. Lookman after a promising start here, really doesn’t seem to offer an awful lot at all which is a real shame. 

[21st Century Fox]

Great to see Maddison back on form.

 

Wilf's head wasn't in it and cost us possession on countless occasions.

 

Evans played a few shocking long passes and gifted possession.

 

KDH played a superb cross field pass.

 

Vestergaard spent a good 10-15 chatting to his Saints mates while warm up along the touchline which was a bit weird.

 

Our defending from set pieces is just non-existent, there's no way they would have scored otherwise. Their front two could barely get a shot off.

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, 21st Century Fox said:

 

 

KDH played a superb cross field pass.

 

Agree. Brilliant vision and execution.

 

Just to give credit where credit is due, a snowblind Söyüncü also switched play in similar spectacular style versus Watford last weekend in the middle of a blizzard. 

[escape2victory]

11 minutes ago, Pick Good Name Later said:

We made a very average Southampton team look far better than what they are last night. 

 

Not going to delve into the obvious. Same problems every week. Nothing changes.

 

For those who are still defending Rodgers. Defending the team. Stating this is a bad patch and we'll come out the other side. Rodgers is the best man for the job. No better out there. Etc etc..

 

My question.

 

What is the cut off point for you all? When does this situation not become acceptable? When is enough, enough? When does Rodgers become indefensible? 

 

 

I’d say around this time next season if still around mid/lower table.

 

Ok this season so far has been poor, doesn’t look like we will have the consistency to really climb the league, and we may end up 11th-15th, not great, but it can happen.

 

After finishing 5th last 2 years and winning the FA cup, I think Rodgers deserves the summer to have a little rebuild, Tielemans probably leaving and might be one or two more he wants out, and to rebuild an exciting hungry team again. If after that, we are still bottom half and showing the same inconsistencies next season, then I think it’s reasonable to say his time is up.

[Fox92]

7 minutes ago, 21st Century Fox said:

 

 

Our defending from set pieces is just non-existent, there's no way they would have scored otherwise. Their front two could barely get a shot off.

Agreed. So frustrating to see the same thing happening again and again.

 

It sounds stupid but set pieces are massive in the game. I can't stand conceding from them, it seems such an easy goal to throw away.

[adejo92]

It's an odd one because it almost feels like a good point having come from behind twice.

 

Reality,  having to come from behind to....Southampton...twice.....the way we did as well for both goals.....it really is game we shouldn't even consider coming away with anything less than the 3 points.

 

Shame about the Barnes and Vardy chance, two good chances that fell to the two right people, just wasn't to be. 

 

On the whole, we're moving in the right direction in the table so hopefully can get three points on Sunday, albeit it will be much more difficult than last night.

Edited 2 December 2021 by adejo92

[foxfanazer]

We're just not addressing our deficiencies. I said it last night but it's pure incompetence from Brendan and our coaching team

[foxinsocks]

12 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

We're just not addressing our deficiencies. I said it last night but it's pure incompetence from Brendan and our coaching team

I agree.  We are not seeing him fix flaws.   We cannot progress until these problems are addressed.  BR seems blind to reality.

 

[Pick Good Name Later]

37 minutes ago, escape2victory said:

I’d say around this time next season if still around mid/lower table.

 

Ok this season so far has been poor, doesn’t look like we will have the consistency to really climb the league, and we may end up 11th-15th, not great, but it can happen.

 

After finishing 5th last 2 years and winning the FA cup, I think Rodgers deserves the summer to have a little rebuild, Tielemans probably leaving and might be one or two more he wants out, and to rebuild an exciting hungry team again. If after that, we are still bottom half and showing the same inconsistencies next season, then I think it’s reasonable to say his time is up.

I hear you. Would you not say the last 1/4 of 20/21 was as poor as what we have been this season? That this season is a continuation of last seasons back end form? Even go as far as saying that the FA Cup win that many an argument use as a defence to the current plight, has masked what has been a downward trajectory for a decent length of time and games now?

 

Not for a moment should we take away from two utterly incredible highlights in the FA Cup and CS, which would have been difficult to achieve without Rodgers expertise. But that's two games. Very easy occasions to motivate players for. However, for all the progress made in the previous two seasons under Rodgers, are we not regressing back to where we were before his tenure? 

 

I absolutely respect your view. The fear for me is by giving him the season, a summer and then 10 games next season to sort out this current plight is we're back to Square 1 having undone all of the progress of the last couple of seasons. 

 

For all of the resource Rodgers has at his disposal. For all of the *ollock* spoken about my media, commentators that he is an elite manager. For all of the quality at his disposal, he is gravely underperforming. And he doesn't seem to have an answer. Well, outside of spotting himself on the big screen when the camera focuses on him, and subsequently starting his clapping routine to rouse the players anyway. 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

[Fightforever]

1 hour ago, Pick Good Name Later said:

We made a very average Southampton team look far better than what they are last night. 

 

Not going to delve into the obvious. Same problems every week. Nothing changes.

 

For those who are still defending Rodgers. Defending the team. Stating this is a bad patch and we'll come out the other side. Rodgers is the best man for the job. No better out there. Etc etc..

 

My question.

 

What is the cut off point for you all? When does this situation not become acceptable? When is enough, enough? When does Rodgers become indefensible? 

 

 

If we ever are in the relegation zone thats when I would become Rodgers out personally.

[foxes1988]

That first half was very poor.  Defensively we are very poor both in terms of the players playing in defense and the team as a whole I think our midfield is a bit of a problem here as well especially with Ndidi being in such bad form.  Our best form of defense is to pressure the other team much more then we are currently and we are not positive enough on the ball or aggressive enough without it. 

 

Second half this definitely improved in that respect.  Not convinced that was all down to Dewsbury-Hall like others seem to be.  Think he played well but the teams overall desire and assertiveness was a bigger factor for me.

[Bob Hazels shorts]

11 hours ago, peterborofox said:

The defence is absolutely shambolic. 

 

The panic every set piece or ball in is just mental. It's a massive issue. Its going to cost us this season big time.

 

Soumare still flatters to deceive for me. Kdh seems a more tidy player and offers something more. Should start next game. 

 

Great to Maddison finally come back to life. 

 

Barnes again was so shite in front of goal. Let's get it right, his goal scoring record isn't good enough. He gets a massive chance probably once every couple of games and he's not clinical enough. 

 

Sad thing about us is that we should be so much closer to fourth place. It's a poor league after the top three and there is a spot up for grabs...

Has a bit of a charmed existence as one of our own

 

I've watched him since he was a kid inc loans and a fan. Has been poor though this season. The fact that you can do the odd trick doesn't exclude you from putting a shift in and contributing elsewhere on the pitch. Mahrez did eventually and Madison literally bust his ass several times last night inc a full stretch touchline challenge.

 

[CloudFox]

38 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

We're just not addressing our deficiencies. I said it last night but it's pure incompetence from Brendan and our coaching team

 

25 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

I agree.  We are not seeing him fix flaws.   We cannot progress until these problems are addressed.  BR seems blind to reality.

 

I'd recommend watching Maddison's post match interview if I were you. I was of the same opinion before, but Maddison seemed genuinely exasperated that it's a problem and spoke about them drilling and drilling on defending set pieces the day before the match. Was frustrated that despite them training on it, they were still suffering.

 

You can coach and coach and coach, but he and Rodgers were right - it's players switching off, not staying concentrated, and not being strong enough. Zonal marking does play a a factor, but lots of teams make it work, so it has to be down to the players.

[East Langton Fox]

2 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Need to ditch the presently used coaching manual for playing out from the back 

 

When I used to be a centre half for a Sunday league team I hated it when the keeper would pass the ball to me as the midfield never came looking for a pass or move into space and I wasn’t creative enough to do a lot with it. Just like watching out defence now and last night in the first half was turgid. Ends up back with schmeichel who puts it into the crowd!

[Pick Good Name Later]

20 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

If we ever are in the relegation zone thats when I would become Rodgers out personally.

Interesting. Out of curiosity, why would the relegation zone by your tipping point?

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Pick Good Name Later said:

What is the cut off point for you all? When does this situation not become acceptable? When is enough, enough? When does Rodgers become indefensible?

 

 

If performances continue to be poor and we fall out of touch with the top half then I'd be asking serious questions. Given we're not likely to be anywhere near relegation I don't see any point in sacking him mid season unless an unbelievably good manager became interested (I'm talking about Gaaperini or Ten Hag showing up at Top's house and asking for a job.)

 

If we finish comfortably bottom half, a good few points off the top eight or nine and we're still in poor form at the end of the year, looking low on confidence, then I'd probably let him go. 

 

It's far too early to be wanting him out though, to be honest. Despite a horrid run of luck with injuries, we're only 5 points off 4th. Could have been 3 if Vards had taken his shooting boots down south with him.

 

We're all frustrated at what is starting to look like a hideous inability to get the defence re-organised, stop the rot from set pieces and get everyone fired up but there's also positives. The last few games have improved, we look like scoring in most games, and Maddison is coming back to some excellent form. 

 

If we take four points from the next two league games and get a good result in Naples then I think we're back to looking quite good really. 

[sacreblueits442]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Very happy with that 2nd half performance after what felt like a real desperate return to how pedestrian and poor we have looked for large parts of the season in the 1st half.

 

KDH did help make a difference, his energy is non stop and for a team that finds it quite easy to struggle for movement he kick started us and made Southampton mere passengers for big parts of that 2nd half.

 

Did enough to score at least 1 or 2 more but if you gift teams 2 goals, especially away from home then it's a nightmare to try and win such games nor really warrant winning them when we keep committing the same shit over and over again. I'm at the end of my tether.

 

Despicable performances again from Soumare and Ndidi in the 1st half and in the 2nd Ndidi was going from being dominant in the middle of the pitch and turning it over, to causing us a load of unnecessary pressure around our box which should be his bread and butter. Did one of his heinous gaffs that would have given away another pen if their man wasn't offside and another atrocious wild slash at goal when we had a decent opening which Rodgers was fuming about. I can't help but feel he might well be at that point in his career where he's a bit bored here and wants a new challenge because he just looks half hearted to me which is never something I thought I'd accuse Ndidi of.

 

Lookman and Barnes mediocre, Maddison excellent and thought Soyuncu was quality 2nd half too. 

 

I'll take the point and hope we can follow it up with a win on Sunday, otherwise it loses its merit. 

.. for Ndidi, it really comes down to having to accommodate another player beside him!!!

  Wilf always wants to play his role on his own and anticipating problems and being the cover the team needs. He is not being allowed because we have a structure in place where he has to be in a certain position in relation to his partner. It is his (Wilf's) reading of the game that puts him one step ahead of an attacker, we are taking the ability to decide for himself away from him.

  When he plays with Youri, we already know he is going to stay and hold his position, what we needed to bolster the midfield was, someone to fill the gap between Youri and Wilf. What we seemed to have created is two players, playing the same roles and Wilf effectively ahead of Soumare when that scenario should never happen. 

 The formation of 4-1-4-1 worked well for us and the reason was Wilf was by himself, doing what he does best, putting out fires. As Matt Piper said, last night, he was creating the fires himself.

[Richard baxter]

when are we going to stop passing the ball time and again across the back line and going nowhere, keepers distribution is crap most of the time. richard baxter

[hejammy]

1 hour ago, 21st Century Fox said:

Great to see Maddison back on form.

 

Wilf's head wasn't in it and cost us possession on countless occasions.

 

Evans played a few shocking long passes and gifted possession.

 

KDH played a superb cross field pass.

 

Vestergaard spent a good 10-15 chatting to his Saints mates while warm up along the touchline which was a bit weird.

 

Our defending from set pieces is just non-existent, there's no way they would have scored otherwise. Their front two could barely get a shot off.

What's weird about this? Players who used to play together having a catch up? It would be weird if he did it on the pitch whilst playing but otherwise not sure why this is strange to you?

[CosbehFox]

I’ll slightly defend Brendan regards set pieces yesterday. Both were largely second phase type situations. Less about preparation and more about concentration. 
 

The first goal was a failure of four individuals failing to win their ‘battle’. The second goal involves five players failing to do their job. 
 

Bottom line for me I said the same on Sunday we simply don’t work hard enough. And those that do try to overcompensate for others which puts them out of position or off their game 

[sm1]

30 minutes ago, East Langton Fox said:

When I used to be a centre half for a Sunday league team I hated it when the keeper would pass the ball to me as the midfield never came looking for a pass or move into space and I wasn’t creative enough to do a lot with it. Just like watching out defence now and last night in the first half was turgid. Ends up back with schmeichel who puts it into the crowd!

That's why Pep got rid of Joe Hart, Englands no1 GK at the time. If you want to play from the back you have to have a GK that can pass. There's no other way. We haven't and therefore need to play a more pragmatic game. 

[Pick Good Name Later]

23 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

If performances continue to be poor and we fall out of touch with the top half then I'd be asking serious questions. Given we're not likely to be anywhere near relegation I don't see any point in sacking him mid season unless an unbelievably good manager became interested (I'm talking about Gaaperini or Ten Hag showing up at Top's house and asking for a job.)

 

If we finish comfortably bottom half, a good few points off the top eight or nine and we're still in poor form at the end of the year, looking low on confidence, then I'd probably let him go. 

 

It's far too early to be wanting him out though, to be honest. Despite a horrid run of luck with injuries, we're only 5 points off 4th. Could have been 3 if Vards had taken his shooting boots down south with him.

 

We're all frustrated at what is starting to look like a hideous inability to get the defence re-organised, stop the rot from set pieces and get everyone fired up but there's also positives. The last few games have improved, we look like scoring in most games, and Maddison is coming back to some excellent form. 

 

If we take four points from the next two league games and get a good result in Naples then I think we're back to looking quite good really. 

Constructive view points here. 

 

Agree that at least we now look like scoring most games. No coincidence that this has changed with Madders being back on it. 

 

What's doing it for me is the sheer ineptness of tackling the same fundamental issues that have dogged our season. I don't believe injuries to our defence are the cause of our awful form at the back. We've the same core of players that are now making poor decisions, full of errors, and positionally are all over the shop. He's setting the team up and asking players to play out of position where their weaknesses are highlighted and we're being found out. 

 

Understand being 5 points of 4th. What's clear is that 4th place is anyones. Where would we be if we started any of the games (ba Utd) at anything more than a snails pace? Or if we learned to mark set pieces? Or if we stopped giving starts away? Or if Brendan had got the correct formation in the first half without having to tweak for second half displays. All semantics really. 

 

I wish I could see the situation changing. But listening to the argument that he's warranted time because we've won an FA Cup and CS baffles me. Hypothetical here. If we wouldn't have won the two pieces of silverware, would there still be as much defence for the bloke?