Post Villa game Vote in or sack for Rodgers

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

At this point, it’s really whether you want to trust that Brendan can rebuild for another push next year. For me, I would be happily let him do that if I could see any sign of improvement in the problems that have dogged us for months. But there’s absolutely no signs atm.

...so what would it take for you to release him now!!!

[frany104]

6 hours ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Yeah….it’s so easy to get into the top four. 

When you’ve got a 12 point lead and other top teams are not at their peak it should be. Stop being a Leicester fan of 30 years ago and get with the times. That was our chance to disrupt the establishment and we flopped. This we are Leicester mentality is starting it wear thin. Doesn’t matter who you are, you finish where you deserve to. Teams have the right to progress and raise the expectations and the fans expectations should raise with it not live in the past. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

Are we still overachieving?

[Detroit Blues]

This team is missing James Justin, Ricardo Pereira and Wesley Fofana. At their peak, that's 3 players that would start on most teams in the premier league. To make matters worse we have lost Youri Tielemans, and at various times Wilfred Ndidi due to injury. James Maddison and Harvey Barnes are just now regaining their form after suffering various injuries last season.

 

We have no replacements because Vestergaard and Bertrand have been generally awful signings. Lookman, Daka and Soumare are promising, but they don't really fix the area of the pitch that is broken. 

 

Yet, given all the issues and poor luck we've had we still are well within striking distance to finish in one of the Europa League places, with no real threat of falling into a relegation battle. We are about to qualify for the next round of the Europa League with a good result @ Napoli. We are in the Quarterfinals of the League Cup.

 

We celebrate around here how we kept Nigel Pearson for the whole season, culminating in the great escape. We preach how important it is to keep the same starting XI for consistency. Yet so many people want to just fire the guy who brought you the FA Cup Trophy, not even 7 months later. It's not like its some Claudio Ranieri situation where the team was actually in fear of being relegated. It's not like the players have quit on him.

 

Every other club in the summer strengthened their team, and the moment Wesley Fofana got injured, we got immediately worse. Instead of going out and spending the kind of money that was necessary to really give ourselves a replacement that could maybe replace Fofana, in James Tarkowski, we cheaped out and brought in Vestergaard. 

 

If it were up to me, and it isn't, I would let Rodgers finish the season. Give him the summer to get the core of our team healthy, and then replace some of the players on the team that aren't performing. If the defensive issues remain, then you know the issue is systemic and not related to personnel. 

Edited 6 December 2021 by Detroit Blues

[when_you're_smiling]

1 hour ago, frany104 said:

When you’ve got a 12 point lead and other top teams are not at their peak it should be. Stop being a Leicester fan of 30 years ago and get with the times. That was our chance to disrupt the establishment and we flopped. This we are Leicester mentality is starting it wear thin. Doesn’t matter who you are, you finish where you deserve to. Teams have the right to progress and raise the expectations and the fans expectations should raise with it not live in the past. 

We have disrupted the establishment….but apparently that’s not good enough, even with a budget not close to the top four in the league..

 

To be fair you are right and I am part of the problem - I don’t have spare billions to spunk on the club like top six owners and a few other clubs. 

 

[Guest Col city fan]

25 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

This team is missing James Justin, Ricardo Pereira and Wesley Fofana. At their peak, that's 3 players that would start on most teams in the premier league. To make matters worse we have lost Youri Tielemans, and at various times Wilfred Ndidi due to injury. James Maddison and Harvey Barnes are just now regaining their form after suffering various injuries last season.

 

We have no replacements because Vestergaard and Bertrand have been generally awful signings. Lookman, Daka and Soumare are promising, but they don't really fix the area of the pitch that is broken. 

 

Yet, given all the issues and poor luck we've had we still are well within striking distance to finish in one of the Europa League places, with no real threat of falling into a relegation battle. We are about to qualify for the next round of the Europa League with a good result @ Napoli. We are in the Quarterfinals of the League Cup.

 

We celebrate around here how we kept Nigel Pearson for the whole season, culminating in the great escape. We preach how important it is to keep the same starting XI for consistency. Yet so many people want to just fire the guy who brought you the FA Cup Trophy, not even 7 months later. It's not like its some Claudio Ranieri situation where the team was actually in fear of being relegated. It's not like the players have quit on him.

 

Every other club in the summer strengthened their team, and the moment Wesley Fofana got injured, we got immediately worse. Instead of going out and spending the kind of money that was necessary to really give ourselves a replacement that could maybe replace Fofana, in James Tarkowski, we cheaped out and brought in Vestergaard. 

 

If it were up to me, and it isn't, I would let Rodgers finish the season. Give him the summer to get the core of our team healthy, and then replace some of the players on the team that aren't performing. If the defensive issues remain, then you know the issue is systemic and not related to personnel. 

What if keeping Rodgers means we get drawn into a relegation battle?

So many times I’ve read on this very forum over the years that such and such won’t happen.. and then it does.

eg Holloway won’t take us down, we’re too far ahead to blow a champions league spot etc etc

Its about FORM.

Re champions league qualification, this wasn’t about points… it was about how we’d gotten into a downward spiral of defeats which meant that Utd one season and Chelsea the next WERE going to catch us because their form had improved dramatically 

Aston Villa have hit some form, Watford are hard to predict but we know they can win games. Newcastle are pants but they could spend big in January. Etc etc

All this while we are going downhill…

Its a big call but I guess the question is will keeping Brendan actually suck us into a dogfight? I dunno but what I do know is that we’ve been getting worse for many many months now 

[DanDare]

On 05/12/2021 at 20:28, Fox92 said:

In.

 

He has delivered us two top 6 finishes, a League Cup semi final and FA Cup trophy.

 

We aren't going to go down so give him time to sort it out. If anybody has earned time he has.

I wouldn't have so much of a problem if we were a small town team with little money to spend and limited facilities. 

That was us 8 years ago, we now have owners who have been prepared to throw their money into this club and this city to the point we have the best squad and training facilities ever.

You'd struggle to believe that tho' when you witness the same mistakes over and over again. Has Rodgers took the team up there yet and utilised the technology available to analyse any of our games?

You wouldn't think so watching the same dross week in week out.

Perhaps someone needs to show him and Toure how to use analytical tools. Maybe Sky could lend us Neville but do it soon before the owner loses patience and calls it quits.

It'll be a lot easier to replace Rodgers than it ever will our current backers 

[deep blue]

4 hours ago, Detroit Blues said:

.....

We celebrate around here how we kept Nigel Pearson for the whole season, culminating in the great escape. We preach how important it is to keep the same starting XI for consistency.

....

The difference is that the team gave their all for him and kept going until it came right.  I don't see our current team "giving their all" in games", or showing enough fight or intensity.

[Jattdogg]

On 05/12/2021 at 14:02, Jattdogg said:

Will start off as 60-40 out and then over the next few days become 53-47  in.

 

 

Pretty close, not bad jattdogg, not bad.

[John12345]

Irritating that he couldn't get Gray firing either.  Looks like he's just scored a goal of the season contender and has become a talisman at Everton. His renaissance coming at a bad time for Bodgers. 

[erlee]

sacked him. Gray only cost Everton 1.7M quids.

[erlee]

9 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Are we still overachieving?

yes we are .. we are ahead of Everton & watford

[J. James]

14 hours ago, Detroit Blues said:

This team is missing James Justin, Ricardo Pereira and Wesley Fofana. At their peak, that's 3 players that would start on most teams in the premier league. To make matters worse we have lost Youri Tielemans, and at various times Wilfred Ndidi due to injury. James Maddison and Harvey Barnes are just now regaining their form after suffering various injuries last season.

 

We have no replacements because Vestergaard and Bertrand have been generally awful signings. Lookman, Daka and Soumare are promising, but they don't really fix the area of the pitch that is broken. 

 

Yet, given all the issues and poor luck we've had we still are well within striking distance to finish in one of the Europa League places, with no real threat of falling into a relegation battle. We are about to qualify for the next round of the Europa League with a good result @ Napoli. We are in the Quarterfinals of the League Cup.

 

We celebrate around here how we kept Nigel Pearson for the whole season, culminating in the great escape. We preach how important it is to keep the same starting XI for consistency. Yet so many people want to just fire the guy who brought you the FA Cup Trophy, not even 7 months later. It's not like its some Claudio Ranieri situation where the team was actually in fear of being relegated. It's not like the players have quit on him.

 

Every other club in the summer strengthened their team, and the moment Wesley Fofana got injured, we got immediately worse. Instead of going out and spending the kind of money that was necessary to really give ourselves a replacement that could maybe replace Fofana, in James Tarkowski, we cheaped out and brought in Vestergaard. 

 

If it were up to me, and it isn't, I would let Rodgers finish the season. Give him the summer to get the core of our team healthy, and then replace some of the players on the team that aren't performing. If the defensive issues remain, then you know the issue is systemic and not related to personnel. 

Oh dear, I'm going to disagree wirh most of this even though I'm not in the sack him now camp, sorry.

To begin with most teams lose key players at some point we are not unique, good managers adapt their team and can grind out results if need be, BR to me seems incapable of this.

Ndidi is a shadow of the player he appeared to be a few months ago as is Cags - isn't BR supposed to improve players?

Maddison and Barnes have both experienced highs and lows too, that they are consistently at or near their best is self deluding, both are good players neither is brilliant.

We have no replacements because BR chose to bring in Vestegard and Bertrand!

 

William Pitt said "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel", to me luck is the last excuse of a loser, we used all of our "luck"  on 15th May.

Besides which the great Gary Player (belittled as lucky ) said "yep and the more l practice, the luckier l get"

Luck is like the rain in England its generally evenly distributed.

 

To say we are within striking distance of a Europa league place is delusional! or at the least so is every other team down to Watford 4th from bottom!

 

But the big one is stating we are in no real danger of relegation - really, are Southampton or Everton? We are in fact closer to a relegation fight than a top 6 finish atm, not just in terms of points, mostly on performances.

But no doubt we can finish strongly as we usually dont and stay up.

 

We need a result at Napoli in a group we should have won 3 games ago and at a canter, thats not a positive!

 

Btw do you KNOW that the players havent quit on him or just assuming so.

 

Much of this present shambles is down to the manager but its probably not a big deal for him to be in the bottom half when you consider how we have overachieved (succeeded) in the last few years, good managers accept and instill over achievement (success) as the new norm (as we supporters do) and push on from that to greatness.

 

Not in the sack him now camp as i said but only because i cant see us getting a really top guy in at this point in the season.

 

Edited 7 December 2021 by J. James
Added a bit

[Foxy-Lady]

On 05/12/2021 at 18:45, sm1 said:

And Stowell too. He's got the best job in football, doing fuch all for 15yrs.

He's been stealing a living for 15 years.....basically does whatever Kasper wants which ensures he keeps his job due to Kaspers influence at the club!

 

And I cant recall a single goalkeeper we've produced through our academy GK system in those 15 years.....

[87fox]

2 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

He's been stealing a living for 15 years.....basically does whatever Kasper wants which ensures he keeps his job due to Kaspers influence at the club!

 

And I cant recall a single goalkeeper we've produced through our academy GK system in those 15 years.....

[Fox92]

16 hours ago, DanDare said:

I wouldn't have so much of a problem if we were a small town team with little money to spend and limited facilities. 

That was us 8 years ago, we now have owners who have been prepared to throw their money into this club and this city to the point we have the best squad and training facilities ever.

You'd struggle to believe that tho' when you witness the same mistakes over and over again. Has Rodgers took the team up there yet and utilised the technology available to analyse any of our games?

You wouldn't think so watching the same dross week in week out.

Perhaps someone needs to show him and Toure how to use analytical tools. Maybe Sky could lend us Neville but do it soon before the owner loses patience and calls it quits.

It'll be a lot easier to replace Rodgers than it ever will our current backers 

I understand your point, and it's a point I've made about having a new training ground and all the backing from the owners etc, but we can't ditch a manager after a little spell. What's the point in that? We just gonna appoint managers, let them be successful and when he has an off season just get rid? We'd eventually go down with that approach.

 

Rodgers has said they do analyse set pieces but it's more of the point we need to actually do/train on them.

 

I wouldn't say it's easy to replace him either just because current owners backing. The right call needs to be made. They appointed Sousa and Sven, chucked everything at the latter too, but those appointements didn't work.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

17 hours ago, when_you're_smiling said:

We have disrupted the establishment….but apparently that’s not good enough, even with a budget not close to the top four in the league..

 

To be fair you are right and I am part of the problem - I don’t have spare billions to spunk on the club like top six owners and a few other clubs. 

 

We had enough money to spunk on making  Rodgers one of the top managerial pay packet  earners in the premier league. Only to have him say we have over archived. Well I thought that was what he had been brought in to do  ? We disrupted the establishment way before he was appointed ( yes won the title ) Even with a budget not in the top four bracket we still have enough financial clout not to be in this situation we find ourselves in at present, and it has nothing to with money. It's to do with poor recruitment and outdated tactics. 

That is the problem , nothing to do with money.

[gazzaa2]

It's whether he can turn it around or not. At Liverpool he really lost the plot in his last year or so in charge, even though the owners gave him every chance to turn it around. At Celtic when things started to go wrong he was earmarking his exit strategy and came here. Was his eye off the ball when he was linked with the United job recently?

 

But let's face it our league form in the first half of this season is how it was in the second half of the previous two seasons. Therefore, maybe with players coming back we can mirror those seasons in reverse. He's a feast or famine manager.

 

The concern with Rodgers is he's had his peak here. A lot of managers these days seem to do well in 2-3 year cycles rather than 5-7. Rodgers is someone who has personality flaws (like Mourinho).

Edited 7 December 2021 by gazzaa2

[Guest SO1]

26 minutes ago, gazzaa2 said:

It's whether he can turn it around or not. At Liverpool he really lost the plot in his last year or so in charge, even though the owners gave him every chance to turn it around. At Celtic when things started to go wrong he was earmarking his exit strategy and came here. Was his eye off the ball when he was linked with the United job recently?

 

But let's face it our league form in the first half of this season is how it was in the second half of the previous two seasons. Therefore, maybe with players coming back we can mirror those seasons in reverse. He's a feast or famine manager.

 

The concern with Rodgers is he's had his peak here. A lot of managers these days seem to do well in 2-3 year cycles rather than 5-7. Rodgers is someone who has personality flaws (like Mourinho).

You forgot how arrogant he is.

[Aus Fox]

1 hour ago, gazzaa2 said:

It's whether he can turn it around or not. At Liverpool he really lost the plot in his last year or so in charge, even though the owners gave him every chance to turn it around. At Celtic when things started to go wrong he was earmarking his exit strategy and came here. Was his eye off the ball when he was linked with the United job recently?

 

But let's face it our league form in the first half of this season is how it was in the second half of the previous two seasons. Therefore, maybe with players coming back we can mirror those seasons in reverse. He's a feast or famine manager.

 

The concern with Rodgers is he's had his peak here. A lot of managers these days seem to do well in 2-3 year cycles rather than 5-7. Rodgers is someone who has personality flaws (like Mourinho).

At Celtic where it started to go wrong? Ignoring that fact that the season he left they won their 3rd consecutive treble… not sure the facts back your argument there.

 

[Aus Fox]

4 hours ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

We had enough money to spunk on making  Rodgers one of the top managerial pay packet  earners in the premier league. Only to have him say we have over archived. Well I thought that was what he had been brought in to do  ? We disrupted the establishment way before he was appointed ( yes won the title ) Even with a budget not in the top four bracket we still have enough financial clout not to be in this situation we find ourselves in at present, and it has nothing to with money. It's to do with poor recruitment and outdated tactics. 

That is the problem , nothing to do with money.

I still can’t fathom why people get so upset about the overachieving comment - we clearly overachieved for 2 season, in finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup. 
Money is a huge factor in our game like it or not, it’s a fact. We don’t have the budget of the top 6 clubs, we don’t even have the budget of Everton or Villa without selling our best players. To consistently be challenging at the top you need to consistently be investing 100s of millions - we can’t do that. 
We have enough financial clout not to be in the situation we find ourselves in? What situation is that? Mid table in the PL, top of the Europa League group and 1/4 final of the league cup / given - it’s not been our greatest season, but it’s not nearly as dire as some make out, and we’re about where we should be now financially.

[MPH]

19 hours ago, Jattdogg said:

Pretty close, not bad jattdogg, not bad.

 

 

 

and interestingly, almost identical voting results to the poll on 20th November

 

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

2 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

I still can’t fathom why people get so upset about the overachieving comment - we clearly overachieved for 2 season, in finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup. 
Money is a huge factor in our game like it or not, it’s a fact. We don’t have the budget of the top 6 clubs, we don’t even have the budget of Everton or Villa without selling our best players. To consistently be challenging at the top you need to consistently be investing 100s of millions - we can’t do that. 
We have enough financial clout not to be in the situation we find ourselves in? What situation is that? Mid table in the PL, top of the Europa League group and 1/4 final of the league cup / given - it’s not been our greatest season, but it’s not nearly as dire as some make out, and we’re about where we should be now financially.

Finance is a big help but no guarantee of success. Liverpool have won one title since the prem inception, Man united won nothing since Fergie left , Tottenham won nothing since 1999. Everton spend more than us each season , won nothing. You can bet Top and the owners are in no way thinking this is were our level should be. They vowed when they bought the club to have us regular top six. Small mindedness is not the way forward and neither is the acceptance of the season we are having given the players we have.

Edited 7 December 2021 by PAPA LAZAROU

[oadby.fox]

21 hours ago, deep blue said:

The difference is that the team gave their all for him and kept going until it came right.  I don't see our current team "giving their all" in games", or showing enough fight or intensity.

Exactly, that’s without even mentioning the comparative quality of the squad back then. I remember seeing us lose back then when we might’ve deserved a point or the win, these days we are beaten thoroughly. There’s barely any resistance to losing individual set pieces let alone the match overall. In contrast to the “great escape”, the feeling with this season is that we have often been lucky to win on the occasions that we have.

 

We get bullied too easily when other teams want it more and that’s something which seems to be systemic now and also unforgivable over a prolonged period at the highest level.

[volpeazzurro]

On 06/12/2021 at 19:52, Detroit Blues said:

This team is missing James Justin, Ricardo Pereira and Wesley Fofana. At their peak, that's 3 players that would start on most teams in the premier league. To make matters worse we have lost Youri Tielemans, and at various times Wilfred Ndidi due to injury. James Maddison and Harvey Barnes are just now regaining their form after suffering various injuries last season.

 

We have no replacements because Vestergaard and Bertrand have been generally awful signings. Lookman, Daka and Soumare are promising, but they don't really fix the area of the pitch that is broken. 

 

Yet, given all the issues and poor luck we've had we still are well within striking distance to finish in one of the Europa League places, with no real threat of falling into a relegation battle. We are about to qualify for the next round of the Europa League with a good result @ Napoli. We are in the Quarterfinals of the League Cup.

 

We celebrate around here how we kept Nigel Pearson for the whole season, culminating in the great escape. We preach how important it is to keep the same starting XI for consistency. Yet so many people want to just fire the guy who brought you the FA Cup Trophy, not even 7 months later. It's not like its some Claudio Ranieri situation where the team was actually in fear of being relegated. It's not like the players have quit on him.

 

Every other club in the summer strengthened their team, and the moment Wesley Fofana got injured, we got immediately worse. Instead of going out and spending the kind of money that was necessary to really give ourselves a replacement that could maybe replace Fofana, in James Tarkowski, we cheaped out and brought in Vestergaard. 

 

If it were up to me, and it isn't, I would let Rodgers finish the season. Give him the summer to get the core of our team healthy, and then replace some of the players on the team that aren't performing. If the defensive issues remain, then you know the issue is systemic and not related to personnel. 

I wouldn't trust him with another penny.