Formula 1 2022

[Bayfox]

Can't wait to see how this goes.

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, Zear0 said:

Red Bull also poached a majority of Mercedes engine staff too recently which has massively helped them. Don't need to spend tokens when making use of a brain drain. 

Redbull have poached merc staff for powertrains which is still in the development stages of producing an engine.

[yorkie1999]

13 hours ago, Stinky said:

Arguably they have the best engine right now too. I get your point and while Mercedes did have a headstart, I don't recall them having much of an engine advantage from 2017 onwards (at a guess?) Thats still more than half Hamilton's titles won with no huge engine advantage

Honda went into partnership with redbull in 2019 and it wasn't until 2020 that they started to see a parity with mercedes regarding the engine.

[Stinkenzo]

13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Honda went into partnership with redbull in 2019 and it wasn't until 2020 that they started to see a parity with mercedes regarding the engine.

I'm talking of Ferrari who were the ones who put up a fight against Mercedes in 17-18, then 19 as well I think until there engine was deemed dodgy

[Zear0]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63421741

 

So they're innocent, but accepting their punishment.

[Super_horns]

On 26/10/2022 at 17:46, jammie82uk said:

The next stage 

 

Team representatives from Alpine and Haas will now meet for a hearing via video conference on Thursday, ahead of this weekend's Mexican Grand Prix. The first hearing will be to determine if Alpine’s protest is admissible and if the stewards find that it is, another meeting will be arranged.

Seems Alonso has been reinstated to 7th:

[jammie82uk]

2 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Seems Alonso has been reinstated to 7th:

Yes he has but it’s still been messy, I found it interesting that the stewards decision cannot be protested against even though they accepted the dispute from Haas after the deadline 

 

“Alpine disputed Haas's protest on the grounds that it had been lodged too late – 24 minutes past the specified deadline – but the FIA concluded in Mexico City that "there is no ability or right for any party to “protest” a decision of the Stewards nor against a summons to a hearing."

 

“However, Alpine then asked for a right of review in light of new evidence and a further hearing on Thursday evening ultimately resulted in Haas’s original protest being deemed inadmissible as it was adjudged the team could have submitted it within the required time limits.”

[jammie82uk]

11 hours ago, Zear0 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63421741

 

So they're innocent, but accepting their punishment.

Just the same as Ferrari the other year then 

[Facecloth]

'Red Bull handed $7m fine and wind tunnel penalty for F1 cost cap breach'

 

https://www.skysports.com/share/12731937

 

Hope the fine comes out of next year's budget.

[Zear0]

"Hello CAS? Toto here..."

[Stinkenzo]

6 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

'Red Bull handed $7m fine and wind tunnel penalty for F1 cost cap breach'

 

https://www.skysports.com/share/12731937

 

Hope the fine comes out of next year's budget.

 

 

Absolutely nothing then, which will come as a shock to absolutely nobody

[Zear0]

Team's will now be balancing whether overspending up to the minor cap is worth the punishment.  Suspect that's a yes.

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Team's will now be balancing whether overspending up to the minor cap is worth the punishment.  Suspect that's a yes.

Until someone else breaks it next season and they say "The continued abuse of the spending cap means the FIA feels they must administer the harshest possible punishment."

[snoopy87]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Until someone else breaks it next season and they say "The continued abuse of the spending cap means the FIA feels they must administer the harshest possible punishment."

Depends who it is. Ferrari or Mercedes will just be another slap on the wrist.

 

There's certain teams that will get away with it because of the amount of money they bring in with sponsors, FIA won't hit them for fear of them walking away, ala Red Bull.

 

I still can't believe Red Bull and Mercedes are even close to the cost cap with how much money they were throwing at development last year

Edited 28 October 2022 by snoopy87

[Leicester_Loyal]

The sport has zero credibility.

[Stinkenzo]

Issue is, just like with in-race penalties, this just won't hurt the team. 7m is pocket money to them unless it comes out of next years budget. Hard to know how much the development thing will hurt them but they already have comfortably the best, most complete car on the grid. Nothing changes next season regulations-wise, they might have Ferrari/Merc catch up to them, thats it. Would you happily breach the budget cap knowing that was the worst case scenario? Absolutely

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Until someone else breaks it next season and they say "The continued abuse of the spending cap means the FIA feels they must administer the harshest possible punishment."

Probably by increasing the spend cap, which, imo, has done nothing so far to level up the sport because the teams that produce their own engine can spend more, in a round about way. The thing is, the top teams were spending something like £400 million a season, that was from earnings for competing and sponsership, the cost cap has brought that down to £130 million (just over half a neymar), where's all that extra money going? they can't shove it in a bank, they're not going to give it back to their sponsers. The sport is awash with money for the top teams and to be perfectly honest, F1 is about pushing the boundries of technical achievement, so limiting that just so a few cars lower down the order can assume to be competitive is just holding the sport back.  

[Legend_in_blue]

3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

'Red Bull handed $7m fine and wind tunnel penalty for F1 cost cap breach'

 

https://www.skysports.com/share/12731937

 

Hope the fine comes out of next year's budget.

A paltry fine for being handed the world championship on a plate and ensuring this season is a walk in the park.

 

Celebrations all round.

[jammie82uk]

49 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

A paltry fine for being handed the world championship on a plate and ensuring this season is a walk in the park.

 

Celebrations all round.

Seems there was some mistakes in the files submitted according to the FIA Statement and they actually exceeded the cost cap by less then £500k 

 

The FIA said that "Red Bull inaccurately excluded and/or adjusted costs amounting to a total of £5,607,000" in the submission it made in March last year and that in the final analysis, it overspent by £1,864,000.

The FIA acknowledges that had RBR applied the correct treatment within its Full Year Reporting Documentation of RBR’s Notional Tax Credit within its 2021 submission of a value of £1,431,348, it would have been considered by the Cost Cap Administration to be in compliance with Article 4.1(b) of the Regulations and therefore RBR’s Relevant Costs for the 2021 Reporting Period would have in fact exceeded the 2021 Cost Cap by £432,652 (0.37%).

 

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

For such a minor breach it would be very tough to actually throw the book at them but the fine is just pretty pointless 

[BlueSi13]

The budget cap is effectively dead.

 

Breach the budget cap.  Win a world title (or two).  Accept a fine and a bit of wind-tunnel restriction (don't worry you've already developed a rocket ship).  Keep your world titles.  Perfect 

[Legend_in_blue]

14 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

The budget cap is effectively dead.

 

Breach the budget cap.  Win a world title (or two).  Accept a fine and a bit of wind-tunnel restriction (don't worry you've already developed a rocket ship).  Keep your world titles.  Perfect 

Horner is doing cartwheels in his sleep right about now.

[Facecloth]

 

I swear this guy has no self awareness. Don't break the rules then Christian, then you won't get punished. He could hit someone with his car and complain about the damage their face did to the bonnet.

[st albans fox]

The fact that taking account of the tax issue means that they still overspent by almost $500k means that Horner simply cannot claim that no overspend took place 

 

it’s a v small amount but it’s still an overspend. 
 

The fine should absolutely come out of next seasons budget to have any meaning. But it won’t ……

[jammie82uk]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 

The fact that taking account of the tax issue means that they still overspent by almost $500k means that Horner simply cannot claim that no overspend took place 

 

it’s a v small amount but it’s still an overspend. 
 

The fine should absolutely come out of next seasons budget to have any meaning. But it won’t ……

 

Horner claims and the FIA statement seems to back him up on that mistakes was made with catering fees (some staff are except from budget some are not) because red bull didn’t separate the two FIA used the total catering value with no exemptions, there was sick pay (not saying red bull was the only ones affected by this) and an ongoing dispute with a senior employee on gardening leave,

there was also issues with social security calculations 

 

The FIA statement also seems to back Horners claim that not a penny was overspent on car improvements 

 

if Red bull or Horner has an issue with anyone it should be with the auditors they appointed as they approved their book keeping to be $3.7 million under the budget cap 

 

it has already been stated by the FIA that the fine needs to be paid within 30 days of the notice being given