Youri Tielemans

[mozartfox]

Arsenal will be no where top 4 next season, so any add ons relating to that achievement is pure JK Rowley stuff. Rudders will not fall for that shite - surely?

 

Personally, I think the Thursday Night Bingo sessions will drag them below 6th.  If Partey has been doing things he ought not be doing, then may a lower finish is even possible. Tierney is always injured and Zhaka is probably no better than Hamza.  They had 25% of the injuries we had last term and were cattled.  Good luck Youri and thanks for everything.

[coolhandfox]

28 minutes ago, alanf0x said:

Rudkin will negotiate a 10 million add on if they win the champions league next year no doubt…

The guy has been DOF during our most successful period as a club, I think he deserves a little more credit than you are giving him.

[StinckleyFox]

I think people are looking past the fact that arsenal have the youngest average age in their starting 11. If youri was to go there now, in 2 years when they have more top flight experience and have grown together they will be a real top team. Players like martinelli, Saka, Smith-Rowe, Odegaard, Tomiyasu, Ramsdale, White these are all players that in 2-3 years will be levels above where they are now and currently would all be incredible additions to a team like ours. It really isnt a sideways move for Youri, it's a move that may see him in a similar league position this year but over the next few years they will be moving up the table. Sure they won't be competing with liverpool and city, but who will?

[Dames]

45 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

The guy has been DOF during our most successful period as a club, I think he deserves a little more credit than you are giving him.

For someone with no relative experience he's done well at some aspects of the job but at the same time for someone with no relative experience he's also done badly at some aspects of the job.

 

Its 50/50 I think but we are within the next year or 2 entering a phase that could well determine the future of the club. We are going to be losing a fair few players due to expiring contracts (their choice and ours) and we need to get the rebuild from that right. If it ends up being like last summer or the 16/17 summer we could find ourselves sliding down the table very quickly. 

 

I wouldn't argue about getting someone with a bit more experience in as there is still a naivety to a lot of our negotiations and decisions. 

[Ric Flair]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Amazing delusion on here.  We have had a few good years, and Arsenal a few crap ones.  They remain a bigger, richer, more established club with an amazing new stadium, in London.  They also likely have a brighter future in the coming few years and are investing in players.  Youri would be entirely reasonable to move there.  

To be fair, there's been a couple of our players and a manager that have turned down Arsenal to remain with us, for once its possibly understandable for our fan base to be dismissive of them. They are bigger than us but they've been a disgrace for the majority of the years we've had this hacienda period, so make hay whilst the sunshines aaar ked.

[ian__marshall]

49 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Plus 10m in add ons. I'd accept it and move on personally.

If the £10m is easily attainable I'd agree. 

 

It's a tricky one as I appreciate if his hearts not in it we'd be better off with someone who is more committed but I'm also conscious of the precedent it sets. I think the club are too soft in these situations and need to take a harder line. How many other players and agents will simply see us as a soft touch that they can walk all over?!?

[desertfox2]

1 hour ago, mozartfox said:

Arsenal will be no where top 4 next season, so any add ons relating to that achievement is pure JK Rowley stuff. Rudders will not fall for that shite - surely?

 

Personally, I think the Thursday Night Bingo sessions will drag them below 6th.  If Partey has been doing things he ought not be doing, then may a lower finish is even possible. Tierney is always injured and Zhaka is probably no better than Hamza.  They had 25% of the injuries we had last term and were cattled.  Good luck Youri and thanks for everything.

They might be. They have a very young side but their transfer business has been decent so far, their young players will have that bit more experience this year, they have added a quality striker and maybe Tielemans too. They are improving. Top 4 might be a step too far but they will be challenging. If Partey looks serious then they will buy someone. They are in the envious position of being able to do that.

[Buzzell]

12 hours ago, Hales said:

I just don't understand Youri wanting to go to Arsenal 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Better chance of playing in Europe, more money, new adventure…🤷‍♂️

Edited 8 July 2022 by buzzer_b

[AKCJ]

For me it depends on what the add ons actually are.

 

If they're easily and quickly attainable then i'd say yes because £33m for Tielemans would be about right.

[Bptiger]

I just want him to either piss of or sign a New contract. This is just dragging on , we will end up selling him on the last day and we will get no replacement. 

[FosseSpark]

The lookman thing is baffling me aswell. If we wanted him, get him in for a full preseason training his proper position. We obviously don't want him

[funkyrobot]

56 minutes ago, StinckleyFox said:

I think people are looking past the fact that arsenal have the youngest average age in their starting 11. If youri was to go there now, in 2 years when they have more top flight experience and have grown together they will be a real top team. Players like martinelli, Saka, Smith-Rowe, Odegaard, Tomiyasu, Ramsdale, White these are all players that in 2-3 years will be levels above where they are now and currently would all be incredible additions to a team like ours. It really isnt a sideways move for Youri, it's a move that may see him in a similar league position this year but over the next few years they will be moving up the table. Sure they won't be competing with liverpool and city, but who will?

Don’t necessarily share your Arsenal love in. Some of those players are massively overrated. A lot of hype not backed up by key performance stats. Ramsdale and Saka in particular. 

[Ric Flair]

£23m + add ons gets us Orkan Kokcu but little else. That said Tielemans has never been part of the intended sales to generate funds for the incomings as the club want him to sign a new deal and stay so as long as we replace him with a player as good as Kokcu for similar money then that's no disaster. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

Tielemans and Cags pissing about with small time agents - promising them the world and messing around with our summer. Changing their agents and to a more realistic agency should probably high on both of their priority list. These man had them both believing they could be prime targets for the worlds elite 

[dbtcity]

6 minutes ago, FosseSpark said:

The lookman thing is baffling me aswell. If we wanted him, get him in for a full preseason training his proper position. We obviously don't want him

I think the issue is his actual position is LW which happens to be the same position as 1 of our best players… on paper 14m is a good deal for him but in reality it’s 14m away from bringing in a player in a position needed

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

£23m + add ons gets us Orkan Kokcu but little else. That said Tielemans has never been part of the intended sales to generate funds for the incomings as the club want him to sign a new deal and stay so as long as we replace him with a player as good as Kokcu for similar money then that's no disaster. 

Given he's in his last year of his contract, replacing Tielemans one for one with a player of similar quality is about as good as we can hope for. 

[Flappit]

16 minutes ago, FosseSpark said:

The lookman thing is baffling me aswell. If we wanted him, get him in for a full preseason training his proper position. We obviously don't want him

You answered your own question, so it's not really baffling!

[StinckleyFox]

11 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Don’t necessarily share your Arsenal love in. Some of those players are massively overrated. A lot of hype not backed up by key performance stats. Ramsdale and Saka in particular. 

Sorry are we not allowed to appreciate any players unless they play for Leicester?

 

The same Saka and Ramsdale who were two of their best players last year?

 

I will admit I don't watch arsenal a great deal but the few times I watched them Ramsdale was incredible, most notably against us!

[ian__marshall]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

That £20m combined with freeing up what we pay him in wages quite possibly makes room for two new signings however. In turn that likely gives us the freedom to let a couple of our outcasts go on loans to reduce the wage bill as opposed to trying to force sales now when everyone knows we're desperate. 

 

So what do you do exactly? We can tough it out out of pride but there's a fable in there somewhere about chopping off your nose, etc. 

I take your point especially with regards to leaving ourselves open to being held hostage by other clubs but you're not getting 1 player of Youri's quality let alone 2 for £20m. I don't think it's a matter of pride more so one where if we don't lay down a marker now we leave ourselves open to similar situations in the future with both current and future players. Fundamentally we've totally ballsed up which is probably more concerning than the actual dilemma we're facing with Youri.

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

you're not getting 1 player of Youri's quality let alone 2 for £20m.

 

You don't need to, you need to be able to improve the squad. 

 

If we consider that ball progression (Tieleman's biggest strength) can be done in other ways and creativity can come from elsewhere on the pitch then signing a young midfielder and a winger can probably give us a net improvement in the squad even losing YT. 

 

And its not just £20m in terms of transfer fees, you need to think of it in terms of the net financial impact of keeping Tielemans. He'll have one of the highest wages at the club, how many millions does he cost us across the whole season and what other bonuses and extras does he get per game played, per win, per assist, per league position or whatever else may be written in to his contract. 

 

Maybe we get twenty million up front from Arsenal and a few performance extras over time and maybe we do a deal with a couple of Dutch or French clubs for some 20 year old earning half of what YT does each, if not even less. 

 

What you save in wages and bonuses you can then add to monies you have available for fees. Maybe we can structure a deal that pays less up front, maybe we can loan initially with an obligation to buy in the summer or in January. See? 

 

Don't think of it in such strict terms as "it's just 20m." The playing budget for the year includes far more than just a superficial transfer fee as reported by some tabloid. 

[volpeazzurro]

5 hours ago, desertfox2 said:

Unfortunately this is very true. We seem to be able to add nobody unless he goes and Arsenal have been on a bit of a decent buying spree without even getting him yet. Even if he wanted to stay with us it looks like it would be with basically the same team just with our best player a year older and the same with Kasper. Unless we can move on some deadwood that is but it's not going very well. You can see the difference between what we are spending and what they are. We can't continuously punch above our weight, sooner or later something has to give. 

I mostly agree,  but I think there was a time about a couple of years ago when we weren't necessarily punching above our weight as our squad, at that particular point in time, was as good, if not better than many. It was then that we missed the boat through not 'refreshing' the squad, as we now seem to refer to it. 

 

This, understandably, was largely due, I think, to missing out on the status and extra revenue Champions League football would have afforded us. For two seasons that was a genuinely attainable goal with what we had together with the first half of the seasons performances and league positions we'd achieved. For me, the eventual failure to achieve top 4 was due to poor management on different levels, despite injuries and covid.

 

Yes, we can look back in retrospect and be 'grateful' for an FA Cup and two 5th place finishes but for me, that's little team mentality  and the sort of negative mantra Rodgers uses to cover up some of the persistent flaws he's had at three clubs now including his woeful expertise in Europe. 

 

These are controversial views I know and polarise us as a fan base. I really don't claim them to be right, it's just how I see it personally. Top, even if he wanted, and I don't necessarily think he does, will be ultimately aware of the financial cost of getting rid of Rodgers. He must surely also have his doubts now and be acutely mindful of the consequences of letting him loose with his choice of players in the transfer market compared to previous models of recruitment. Apart from his silver tongue, Rodgers has no previous record to speak of expertise wise to hang his coat on. There potentially could be a bit of an unseen and unmentioned stand off here and Rodgers has already lined up, what to the media, would sound like valid and plausible excuses if he fails, a media that is already institutionally bought in to the 'little club' rights, or not, to win things and their rightful place in the status quo. To them, 5th place was momentarily just about comfortable territory and despite any managerial mistakes, is something that little old Leicester City should be bloody well grateful for and should therefore realise and know their place in the hierarchy. I think we missed the opportunity to be better than that and secure several years of regular top 6 status if not a little bit higher on odd occasions. 

[SafewayFox]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You don't need to, you need to be able to improve the squad. 

 

If we consider that ball progression (Tieleman's biggest strength) can be done in other ways and creativity can come from elsewhere on the pitch then signing a young midfielder and a winger can probably give us a net improvement in the squad even losing YT. 

 

And its not just £20m in terms of transfer fees, you need to think of it in terms of the net financial impact of keeping Tielemans. He'll have one of the highest wages at the club, how many millions does he cost us across the whole season and what other bonuses and extras does he get per game played, per win, per assist, per league position or whatever else may be written in to his contract. 

 

Maybe we get twenty million up front from Arsenal and a few performance extras over time and maybe we do a deal with a couple of Dutch or French clubs for some 20 year old earning half of what YT does each, if not even less. 

 

What you save in wages and bonuses you can then add to monies you have available for fees. Maybe we can structure a deal that pays less up front, maybe we can loan initially with an obligation to buy in the summer or in January. See? 

 

Don't think of it in such strict terms as "it's just 20m." The playing budget for the year includes far more than just a superficial transfer fee as reported by some tabloid. 

Spot on.

 

Kokcu for a similar price and a long contract seems the best of a bad situation aka only one year left on Youri’s contract.

 

What are your thoughts on Madders?

 

I ask, as if he doesn’t sign an extension in 12 months it will be Groundhog Day but with Madders in Youri’s shoes.

[Finnegan]

10 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

Spot on.

 

Kokcu for a similar price and a long contract seems the best of a bad situation aka only one year left on Youri’s contract.

 

What are your thoughts on Madders?

 

I ask, as if he doesn’t sign an extension in 12 months it will be Groundhog Day but with Madders in Youri’s shoes.

 

I'm not sure if it's bollocks or not but someone pointed out on here we might have an option on the club's side to extend Madders' contract? If so less concerned. In either instance, we can't afford to lose both in the same window so it's straight up non negotiable. He's not going anywhere right now. 

[ian__marshall]

10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You don't need to, you need to be able to improve the squad. 

 

If we consider that ball progression (Tieleman's biggest strength) can be done in other ways and creativity can come from elsewhere on the pitch then signing a young midfielder and a winger can probably give us a net improvement in the squad even losing YT. 

 

And its not just £20m in terms of transfer fees, you need to think of it in terms of the net financial impact of keeping Tielemans. He'll have one of the highest wages at the club, how many millions does he cost us across the whole season and what other bonuses and extras does he get per game played, per win, per assist, per league position or whatever else may be written in to his contract. 

 

Maybe we get twenty million up front from Arsenal and a few performance extras over time and maybe we do a deal with a couple of Dutch or French clubs for some 20 year old earning half of what YT does each, if not even less. 

 

What you save in wages and bonuses you can then add to monies you have available for fees. Maybe we can structure a deal that pays less up front, maybe we can loan initially with an obligation to buy in the summer or in January. See? 

 

Don't think of it in such strict terms as "it's just 20m." The playing budget for the year includes far more than just a superficial transfer fee as reported by some tabloid. 

Of course, and in principle I agree that the net return can be achieved/improved upon from other areas but I'm not convinced £20m whichever way you want to structure a deal will massively help us to improve. Let's not forget that we may not even actually receive the whole fee upfront in the same way that we may amortise incoming player fees over a defined period. Again the wage saving won't be massive. I believe he's on the same terms as was originally agreed when he signed. He won't be on Vardy/Schmeichel money. Let's say for arguments sake he's on £80-100k. Given that we've got both Choudhury and Soumare reportedly on £60k and £80k respectively even average replacements will be on good money so at best you're probably looking at £20-30k net saving.

 

I just think that £20m these days won't bag you anyone of quality in any position unless you're very very lucky. We don't particularly have a great record either in identifying central midfielders so there is a risk that we end up with another player on the books drawing down a wage and making zero contribution.

 

Admittedly, there's an argument that the alternative is he runs down his contract and we get nothing, but if that's his intention then I think we need to respond in kind and make an example of him which won't be good for him given the upcoming World Cup.

 

Above all else, as mentioned previously my concern is that if we allow him to dictate the terms he most certainly won't be the last. 

[alanf0x]

2 hours ago, Dames said:

For someone with no relative experience he's done well at some aspects of the job but at the same time for someone with no relative experience he's also done badly at some aspects of the job.

 

Its 50/50 I think but we are within the next year or 2 entering a phase that could well determine the future of the club. We are going to be losing a fair few players due to expiring contracts (their choice and ours) and we need to get the rebuild from that right. If it ends up being like last summer or the 16/17 summer we could find ourselves sliding down the table very quickly. 

 

I wouldn't argue about getting someone with a bit more experience in as there is still a naivety to a lot of our negotiations and decisions. 

Bang on here. Couple of big windows ahead