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whitlock

Youri Tielemans

By whitlock, in Transfer Talk

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Le Renard

Le Renard

Posted
Posted

I hope this doesn't drag on throughout the summer, but I'm not 100% sure he'll go, the trend is to run the contract down and have the rich pickings on offer.  If Tielemans waits another year he will have a signing on fee and higher wages.  I think clubs have to stop being an Ostrich and having too much bravado, and stop playing these players who want out.  Clubs need to accept that when a player doesn't want to sign the contract, then you either sell them or put them in the reserves.  Some have said that Tielemans is a depreciating asset and we needed to play him to keep his value up to at least a modicum of repect, but if he stays for another year, then it wasn't worth while.  Most fans want to see players who want to play for the club and not become mercenaries, and yes I know their career is short, but they can earn so much money now it is getting beyond absurd.  

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SafewayFox

SafewayFox

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2 minutes ago, Le Renard said:

I hope this doesn't drag on throughout the summer, but I'm not 100% sure he'll go, the trend is to run the contract down and have the rich pickings on offer.  If Tielemans waits another year he will have a signing on fee and higher wages.  I think clubs have to stop being an Ostrich and having too much bravado, and stop playing these players who want out.  Clubs need to accept that when a player doesn't want to sign the contract, then you either sell them or put them in the reserves.  Some have said that Tielemans is a depreciating asset and we needed to play him to keep his value up to at least a modicum of repect, but if he stays for another year, then it wasn't worth while.  Most fans want to see players who want to play for the club and not become mercenaries, and yes I know their career is short, but they can earn so much money now it is getting beyond absurd.  

Player power sadly springs to mind mate.

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ian__marshall

ian__marshall

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53 minutes ago, Le Renard said:

I hope this doesn't drag on throughout the summer, but I'm not 100% sure he'll go, the trend is to run the contract down and have the rich pickings on offer.  If Tielemans waits another year he will have a signing on fee and higher wages.  I think clubs have to stop being an Ostrich and having too much bravado, and stop playing these players who want out.  Clubs need to accept that when a player doesn't want to sign the contract, then you either sell them or put them in the reserves.  Some have said that Tielemans is a depreciating asset and we needed to play him to keep his value up to at least a modicum of repect, but if he stays for another year, then it wasn't worth while.  Most fans want to see players who want to play for the club and not become mercenaries, and yes I know their career is short, but they can earn so much money now it is getting beyond absurd.  

Completely agree. If it was left to me I'd give him 3 options; sign a new contract, get his agent to engineer a move by no later than the end of the month, or be excluded from the squad, training facilities, and backroom staff. He's a great player and I'd love him to stay but we can't allow him to disrupt our plans for next season. 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

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Arsenal not getting UCL is actually a blessing as I don't think they'd have come in for him if they had,now I think keeping he'll be their main midfield target and we'll get a respectable figure for him to start our transfer window.

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BKLFox

BKLFox

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Whilst it seems fashionable to letting contracts run down by players it does have an element of risk, they are only a serious ACL type injury away of being left on the heap, not get the club they had heart set on or take longer in securing a contract,

I don’t think Youri will stay and let his contract run out, my hope is he’ll go for the 25m+ or if a club doesn’t come in that he fancies he’ll resign a short term contract which secured his immediate future and allows us to get some sort of fee next summer when he tries again if it’s all about CL.

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Sampson

Sampson

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Whilst it seems fashionable to letting contracts run down by players it does have an element of risk, they are only a serious ACL type injury away of being left on the heap, not get the club they had heart set on or take longer in securing a contract,

I don’t think Youri will stay and let his contract run out, my hope is he’ll go for the 25m+ or if a club doesn’t come in that he fancies he’ll resign a short term contract which secured his immediate future and allows us to get some sort of fee next summer when he tries again if it’s all about CL.

He will absolutely will let his contract run out and not sign a new deal. This kind of thinking people clinging on to is really naive to how little negotiating power we have in all this.

 

There is very little element of risk to it from his point of view really. Firstly, he can sign on a pre-contract basis for another club from January. 
 

Secondly, if he did do his acl in December for example before he can start signing pre-contract deals, do you not think then we would still offer him a new deal which he could sign in that circumstance anyway?

 

We gave Fofana, Matty James and Ricardo all new contracts while out with long term injuries. We would 100% do the same if Tielemans was.

 

We’re not going to let a player of the quality of Tielemans go for free if he did his acl in and he could easily come back for us still the following season. If he did get a bad injury. at that point we would still offer him a new deal and he would sign on.

 

There’s basically zero risk to Tielemans letting his contract run down and it gives him more power in doing so. It’s naive that some of our fans keep clinging to this idea he’ll sign a new deal, he’s not signing a new deal, that much seems obvious to me.

Edited by Sampson
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Viva

Viva

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25 minutes ago, Sampson said:

He will absolutely will let his contract run out and not sign a new deal. This kind of thinking people clinging on to is really naive to how little negotiating power we have in all this.

 

There is very little element of risk to it from his point of view really. Firstly, he can sign on a pre-contract basis for another club from January. 
 

Secondly, if he did do his acl in December for example before he can start signing pre-contract deals, do you not think then we would still offer him a new deal which he could sign in that circumstance anyway?

 

We gave Fofana, Matty James and Ricardo all new contracts while out with long term injuries. We would 100% do the same if Tielemans was.

 

We’re not going to let a player of the quality of Tielemans go for free if he did his acl in and he could easily come back for us still the following season. If he did get a bad injury. at that point we would still offer him a new deal and he would sign on.

 

There’s basically zero risk to Tielemans letting his contract run down and it gives him more power in doing so. It’s naive that some of our fans keep clinging to this idea he’ll sign a new deal, he’s not signing a new deal, that much seems obvious to me.

There are millions at risk, so hardly zero. He will have already lost out on two years of a lucrative contract extension with us and if he does his ACL in, his next contract won’t be five years at £200k or whatever at Arsenal, it would probably be three years at £100k with us. 
 

Unless he ups his game this season, he won’t be going to a better club than Arsenal next season anyway, so his thinking might be to move on now to sign that lucrative long term contract and start a fresh with a different club, rather than having another season on less money with a club you don’t want to be at long term. 

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BKLFox

BKLFox

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1 hour ago, Sampson said:

He will absolutely will let his contract run out and not sign a new deal. This kind of thinking people clinging on to is really naive to how little negotiating power we have in all this.

 

There is very little element of risk to it from his point of view really. Firstly, he can sign on a pre-contract basis for another club from January. 
 

Secondly, if he did do his acl in December for example before he can start signing pre-contract deals, do you not think then we would still offer him a new deal which he could sign in that circumstance anyway?

 

We gave Fofana, Matty James and Ricardo all new contracts while out with long term injuries. We would 100% do the same if Tielemans was.

 

We’re not going to let a player of the quality of Tielemans go for free if he did his acl in and he could easily come back for us still the following season. If he did get a bad injury. at that point we would still offer him a new deal and he would sign on.

 

There’s basically zero risk to Tielemans letting his contract run down and it gives him more power in doing so. It’s naive that some of our fans keep clinging to this idea he’ll sign a new deal, he’s not signing a new deal, that much seems obvious to me.

Please don’t mistake me as someone who really gives a tiny rats ass what Tielemans does, the days of me clinging to football have well passed when I realised if we received £0, £25m or £50m for a player my little life continued on its straight trajectory 

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Sampson

Sampson

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59 minutes ago, Viva said:

There are millions at risk, so hardly zero. He will have already lost out on two years of a lucrative contract extension with us and if he does his ACL in, his next contract won’t be five years at £200k or whatever at Arsenal, it would probably be three years at £100k with us. 
 

Unless he ups his game this season, he won’t be going to a better club than Arsenal next season anyway, so his thinking might be to move on now to sign that lucrative long term contract and start a fresh with a different club, rather than having another season on less money with a club you don’t want to be at long term. 

Players will have insurance worth millions in the case of long-term injuries like that anyway though.

 

”Unless he ups his game this season he won’t be going to a better club than Arsenal anyway” is exactly the point - he either certainly will attract greater clubs or a bigger contract here if he’s leaving on a free next season. Let’s say he signs a long-term deal with a release clause then has a bad season no one is going to want him. But if he’s a free transfer then teams likely will anyway as they think it’s less of a risk. And we’d probably still give him a signing in fee to keep him here anyway.

 

You only have to look how Harry Kane cornered himself out of a move by signing a new contract after verbally agreeing he would be sold anyway to not see than signing a new deal here is a far greater risk of scuppering your deal.

 

Tielemans has more than enough time to decide anyway. He can start talking to clubs about signing on a pre-contract in about 6 months and he’d be silly to not do that before signing a deal here. 
 

Even if he stays and plays well to try and get a deal for 6 months, once he’s signed a pre-contract deal with another club he’ll probably subconsciously drop and get loads of sketchy injuries in the second half of next season anyway, like Aaron Ramsey in his final few months at Arsenal after he’d already signed a pre-contract deal with Juventus.

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los dedos

los dedos

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1 hour ago, BKLFox said:

Please don’t mistake me as someone who really gives a tiny rats ass what Tielemans does, the days of me clinging to football have well passed when I realised if we received £0, £25m or £50m for a player my little life continued on its straight trajectory 

What ? Selling a few players and raking on a few hundred million could massively help Leicester improve and expand.

  I'll take it you're a Leicester fan and as such hope that if players are leaving we can make as much money as possible . Win more trophies, pay for a bigger ground and play in Europe. 

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los dedos

los dedos

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1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Players will have insurance worth millions in the case of long-term injuries like that anyway though.

 

”Unless he ups his game this season he won’t be going to a better club than Arsenal anyway” is exactly the point - he either certainly will attract greater clubs or a bigger contract here if he’s leaving on a free next season. Let’s say he signs a long-term deal with a release clause then has a bad season no one is going to want him. But if he’s a free transfer then teams likely will anyway as they think it’s less of a risk. And we’d probably still give him a signing in fee to keep him here anyway.

 

You only have to look how Harry Kane cornered himself out of a move by signing a new contract after verbally agreeing he would be sold anyway to not see than signing a new deal here is a far greater risk of scuppering your deal.

 

Tielemans has more than enough time to decide anyway. He can start talking to clubs about signing on a pre-contract in about 6 months and he’d be silly to not do that before signing a deal here. 
 

Even if he stays and plays well to try and get a deal for 6 months, once he’s signed a pre-contract deal with another club he’ll probably subconsciously drop and get loads of sketchy injuries in the second half of next season anyway, like Aaron Ramsey in his final few months at Arsenal after he’d already signed a pre-contract deal with Juventus.

What if he has another bad season ? Even a free is going to cost his new club 10s of millions and the top clubs won't be banging on his door .

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BKLFox

BKLFox

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9 minutes ago, los dedos said:

What ? Selling a few players and raking on a few hundred million could massively help Leicester improve and expand.

  I'll take it you're a Leicester fan and as such hope that if players are leaving we can make as much money as possible . Win more trophies, pay for a bigger ground and play in Europe. 

I fall into the category of passionate Leicester city supporter that doesn’t allow football to ruin my w/end win lose or draw

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Sampson

Sampson

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47 minutes ago, los dedos said:

What if he has another bad season ? Even a free is going to cost his new club 10s of millions and the top clubs won't be banging on his door .

Again - he doesn’t need to have another good season. He can sign for clubs on a pre-contract in January, likely after the World Cup, before he’s even played half of next season. His World Cup performances are going to much more important on showing him on the bigger stage than his performances for us next season. I don’t think 10 or 15 mediocre performances in the first 2/5ths of next season is suddenly going to see teams turn away from a player who teams have been watching for years.

 

I think Arsenal at least will probably be in for him whatever. He’s probably already come to some kind of agreement with them that they’ll sign him in January on a pre-contract basis if he doesn’t go this summer (which I think he very likely will anyway and I think we’d be crazy not to cash in on him), but a couple of decent World Cup performances will probably give him more leg room.
 

You really think if he has a bad season we’d just release him anyway? Again, I think we’d probably offer him a new contract regardless at the end of this season and we’re just the back up plan to fall back on.

 

I just don’t get any of these arguments, Tielemans holds all the cards in these negotiations and he’d also be silly from his point of view to sign a new deal here this summer before he’s exhausted all options.
 

I also think we’d be crazy as a club not to cash in on him while we have a chance this summer. And I’m pretty sure the club thinks that as well.

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Sly

Sly

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31 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Again - he doesn’t need to have another good season. He can sign for clubs on a pre-contract in January, likely after the World Cup, before he’s even played half of next season. His World Cup performances are going to much more important on showing him on the bigger stage than his performances for us next season. I don’t think 10 or 15 mediocre performances in the first 2/5ths of next season is suddenly going to see teams turn away from a player who teams have been watching for years.

 

I think Arsenal at least will probably be in for him whatever. He’s probably already come to some kind of agreement with them that they’ll sign him in January on a pre-contract basis if he doesn’t go this summer (which I think he very likely will anyway and I think we’d be crazy not to cash in on him), but a couple of decent World Cup performances will probably give him more leg room.
 

You really think if he has a bad season we’d just release him anyway? Again, I think we’d probably offer him a new contract regardless at the end of this season and we’re just the back up plan to fall back on.

 

I just don’t get any of these arguments, Tielemans holds all the cards in these negotiations and he’d also be silly from his point of view to sign a new deal here this summer before he’s exhausted all options.
 

I also think we’d be crazy as a club not to cash in on him while we have a chance this summer. And I’m pretty sure the club thinks that as well.

He can’t agree a move with Arsenal in January. He can only agree terms with a foreign club I believe. 

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volpeazzurro

volpeazzurro

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4 hours ago, Sampson said:

Again - he doesn’t need to have another good season. He can sign for clubs on a pre-contract in January, likely after the World Cup, before he’s even played half of next season. His World Cup performances are going to much more important on showing him on the bigger stage than his performances for us next season. I don’t think 10 or 15 mediocre performances in the first 2/5ths of next season is suddenly going to see teams turn away from a player who teams have been watching for years.

 

I think Arsenal at least will probably be in for him whatever. He’s probably already come to some kind of agreement with them that they’ll sign him in January on a pre-contract basis if he doesn’t go this summer (which I think he very likely will anyway and I think we’d be crazy not to cash in on him), but a couple of decent World Cup performances will probably give him more leg room.
 

You really think if he has a bad season we’d just release him anyway? Again, I think we’d probably offer him a new contract regardless at the end of this season and we’re just the back up plan to fall back on.

 

I just don’t get any of these arguments, Tielemans holds all the cards in these negotiations and he’d also be silly from his point of view to sign a new deal here this summer before he’s exhausted all options.
 

I also think we’d be crazy as a club not to cash in on him while we have a chance this summer. And I’m pretty sure the club thinks that as well.

The last thing we need is a half hearted player, he's been nothing short of woeful most of last season. It is of course his absolute contractual right to sit tight and wait for a year and get a big signing on fee. You are right when you say he appears to hold all the cards also.

 

However, should a decent offer come in from an appropriate club and he turns it down and he still doesn't wish to sign a new deal then we should play hard ball too a bit perhaps. It's World Cup year so just refuse to play him, no games at all isn't going to help his national team ambitions. The club comes first and if Ndidi, Maddison, KDH and any other suitable contenders are fit we can do without him on last years evidence. We have to prepare for life without him too. By the end of the year his list of suitors willing to pay him and his agent a bundle will perhaps have dwindled also.

Edited by volpeazzurro
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TJB-fox

TJB-fox

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4 hours ago, BKLFox said:

I fall into the category of passionate Leicester city supporter that doesn’t allow football to ruin my w/end win lose or draw

Fairplay. I wish I could refrain my frustrations when we’ve played awfully. 
 

roma away semi final springs to mind, how could that not ruin your evening?

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splinterdream

splinterdream

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5 hours ago, messerschmitt said:

I'm hoping to become like this one day.

When I start the game saying to my wife "I know we'll lose this one so I'm not bothered", then they give me some hope and when we do lose, weekend ruined (Spurs comeback or Liverpool in the cup)

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volpeazzurro

volpeazzurro

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5 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

I’m not saying he wants to be here next season mate, I just disagree with the ‘half-hearted’ and ‘woeful’ parts of your post. 

I suppose it's subjective to some extent but also what you actually see rather than just blindly supporting a player given that all players have off days or an occasional drop in form.

 

On numerous occasions however, I just personally got sick of him gesticulating and pointing to fellow team-mates as if he was orchestrating the game. That would have been fine if he was and  visibly adding value himself as those same team-mates appeared to be busting a gut round him but he wasn't.

 

Admittedly some older experienced players we see just seem to read the game well and happen to be in the right place at the right time seemingly at a gentler pace, but he isn't older and he wasn't doing that either.

 

His contribution seemed minimal and ball retention/passing shocking at times. His demeanour was that of a player living on past glories or reputation for one of his age. This forum is one thing but it was fairly common comment in the stands where I sit too, most of which had been big Tielemans supporters previously. His movement off the ball displayed a minimum of effort imo.

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