Youri Tielemans

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Phenom said:

Youri had an iconic moment but it takes more than that to be a legend imo.

That 'iconic moment', an FA Cuo winning goal (and a screamer at that) is unique at our club.  There is no single moment from any other player that can match it in our history.  If Youri is not a legend then nobody is.

[dobbylcfc]

5 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Funny how people fall over themselves to call a player who didn't want to be in the first place and left as soon as possible after 40 games a legend.

 

But can't call a guy one who gave us 158 games one because he wants to leave and has had a bad 3-4 months form wise.

 

Funny how another guy who gave us 179 games and wanted to leave is still seen by some as a disloyal, but the guy with 40 games gets away with it. 

 

 

A bad 3/4 months??? He’s been poor pretty much all of last season. It’s clear as day he’s had his head turned if he wants to go that bad he can go what interests me though is we’ve all heard he wanted CL football but no CL clubs have come in for him if he does go to Arsenal he’s only going to be playing Europa league at best

[JimJams]

4 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....the legend argument is pretty much subjective, so there is not a right or wrong answer in the end!!!

If we look at the comparisons of Kante, Tielemans and Mahrez and their contributions to our club, there are varying degrees of games played and means of departure away from our club.

Kante- leaving after 1 season was not a problem for me, he had a massive contribution while he was here, after having being left with our offer, the only offer on the table available to him. He came and was instrumental in our greatest triumph. He should have won player of the season and went on to win the league the next season, with another club, and finally received his recognition. I can only feel pride for those achievements.

Youri Tielemans - A couple of years of good and sometimes exceptional service, but has contrived a situation that has become chaotic and demands a resolution. It engendered a toxic atmosphere at his last club, and he has now sought to repeat the process all over again. We need a decision right now regarding his intentions, and the club needs to press him for an answer.

Mahrez- We won the League with him, but unlike Kante, I have little to no affection for Mahrez. His desperation to get out of the club and the lengths he went trough to make it happen was unprofessional and crass. He is always going to be part of the team that won the league, we cannot consign his name to the trash bin, but I would not want him to come back here, not any time soon.

"Contrived a situation" ? You mean honoured his contract then? He could have pushed for a move last summer when his stock would have been higher and we'd have got a better fee, but then fans would have been up in arms at selling one of our best players.

We're going to see this again with Maddison. We know our model is to buy players in for relatively low fees and sell when their price hits its peak, but then dont want us to sell those players when that actually happens. And when you don't, you end up in a situation like this. But fans will moan either way.

[los dedos]

56 minutes ago, JimJams said:

"Contrived a situation" ? You mean honoured his contract then? He could have pushed for a move last summer when his stock would have been higher and we'd have got a better fee, but then fans would have been up in arms at selling one of our best players.

We're going to see this again with Maddison. We know our model is to buy players in for relatively low fees and sell when their price hits its peak, but then dont want us to sell those players when that actually happens. And when you don't, you end up in a situation like this. But fans will moan either way.

You don't think signing a 4 year contract when we wanted him to sign a 5 year one wasn't contrived . 😅

Between Youri and his agent this was all part of the master plan . Ideally with one of Europe's top clubs chasing him .

And by that I don't mean Arsenal. 😏

[jerry]

11 hours ago, dannythefox said:

Same here mate get him gone asap.

I agree. The alternative is another year of under performing and a potential loss of £30 mil, lost when he leaves for free.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Kante - a legend.

Mahrez - a legend.

Tielemans - a legend.

 

Not difficult is it?

[Leeds Fox]

12 hours ago, gurru991 said:

Nobody is disputing how good the goal was & its importance is obvious but he has turned into the girlfriend who tells she wants to start seeing other people.

Every day brings another story about wether he may stay or go. For me I'm bored with the soap opera & want him gone.

It’s not that personal is it? It’s a bloke who wants a better paid job… and don’t we all? 
 

He’s going, if he doesn’t it’s because that job hasn’t come up and he’ll stay and earn the money that we contracted him to. He could’ve taken a pay rise, he didn’t and hoped to leave.

 

Person nearing the peak of their career wants a better job. It’s normal in any walk of life. 
 

This season the whole squad was crap, he just looked worse than he’d been before because he was outstanding before. Vardy and N’Didi were huge misses for him. But yes, he was sh!t this season. 

[Sampson]

7 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....the legend argument is pretty much subjective, so there is not a right or wrong answer in the end!!!

If we look at the comparisons of Kante, Tielemans and Mahrez and their contributions to our club, there are varying degrees of games played and means of departure away from our club.

Kante- leaving after 1 season was not a problem for me, he had a massive contribution while he was here, after having being left with our offer, the only offer on the table available to him. He came and was instrumental in our greatest triumph. He should have won player of the season and went on to win the league the next season, with another club, and finally received his recognition. I can only feel pride for those achievements.

Youri Tielemans - A couple of years of good and sometimes exceptional service, but has contrived a situation that has become chaotic and demands a resolution. It engendered a toxic atmosphere at his last club, and he has now sought to repeat the process all over again. We need a decision right now regarding his intentions, and the club needs to press him for an answer.

Mahrez- We won the League with him, but unlike Kante, I have little to no affection for Mahrez. His desperation to get out of the club and the lengths he went trough to make it happen was unprofessional and crass. He is always going to be part of the team that won the league, we cannot consign his name to the trash bin, but I would not want him to come back here, not any time soon.

That is just an utterly bizarre post to me.

 

Including Kante because he won a league title since and taking pride in that achievement but ignoring Mahrez’ what, 3? 4? league titles since. Bigging  up Kante’s performances but playing down Mahrez?

 

I swear some people want to make out Kante single handedly won us the league sometimes. I hate to say it, but Kante has moved towards verging on overrated in recent years. Mahrez absolutely was just as great if not greater for us that season.

 

Kante had a release clause written into his contract, Mahrez didn’t. Kante left the league champions for a side who just finished 10th and had no European football, Mahrez left a side who’d just finished 9th to join one of the best sides in Europe. Kante didn’t want to be here and infamously waited on us to see if he could join Marseille at first, then left at first opportunity. Mahrez gave us 2 more years, including a fantastic final season (easily his 2nd best season for us), so clearly didn’t “down tools” either.

 

Mahrez is a bigger legend than Kante, absolutely no question about it in my mind. I find it utterly baffling when people try to make out Kante should be remembered really warmly, but Mahrez shouldn’t.

Edited 11 June 2022 by Sampson

[burbage12]

As a kid I watched Charlie George score a screamer for Arsenal in the fa cup in 1971

It still makes me smile to this day when I see it. 

Imagine if that was a Leicester player when I was that young.

There's plenty of 9yr olds in 40 50yrs later will have that same feeling.

 

[jonthefox]

If he hasn't made his mind up yet , a quick read on here will soon sort it. 

 

 

 

Ps, Youri , we love you. sign a new contract 

[Pick Good Name Later]

For Youri to go, doesn’t there have to be a club interested in his services? Clubs aren’t exactly scrambling at the door for him. 
 

£30mil for a player that is overrun in the press, no turn of speed and has been consistently below average for a good proportion of the season. Yes, he’s capable of the unbelievable moment. 
 

£30mil? Equally conceivable he runs down is contract and waits for the big pay day as a free agent. 
 

Legend for the FA Cup goal - Give over. He had a moment of greatness. It was a collective team effort to afford him that moment of greatness. 👍🏻 

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, dobbylcfc said:

A bad 3/4 months??? He’s been poor pretty much all of last season. It’s clear as day he’s had his head turned if he wants to go that bad he can go what interests me though is we’ve all heard he wanted CL football but no CL clubs have come in for him if he does go to Arsenal he’s only going to be playing Europa league at best

He was one of best players in the until he got injured against Leeds away, missing 4 PL games, in the other 12 he played between the start of the season and boxing day he scored 5 and got 2 assists with an average rating of 7.28 on whoscored.

 

He form only really went down hill after his injury and the switch to 4-3-3 which doesn't suit him due to his lack of mobility 

 

 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

7 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....the legend argument is pretty much subjective, so there is not a right or wrong answer in the end!!!

If we look at the comparisons of Kante, Tielemans and Mahrez and their contributions to our club, there are varying degrees of games played and means of departure away from our club.

Kante- leaving after 1 season was not a problem for me, he had a massive contribution while he was here, after having being left with our offer, the only offer on the table available to him. He came and was instrumental in our greatest triumph. He should have won player of the season and went on to win the league the next season, with another club, and finally received his recognition. I can only feel pride for those achievements.

Youri Tielemans - A couple of years of good and sometimes exceptional service, but has contrived a situation that has become chaotic and demands a resolution. It engendered a toxic atmosphere at his last club, and he has now sought to repeat the process all over again. We need a decision right now regarding his intentions, and the club needs to press him for an answer.

Mahrez- We won the League with him, but unlike Kante, I have little to no affection for Mahrez. His desperation to get out of the club and the lengths he went trough to make it happen was unprofessional and crass. He is always going to be part of the team that won the league, we cannot consign his name to the trash bin, but I would not want him to come back here, not any time soon.

Proved my point beautifully.........

[MalletFox]

1 hour ago, Pick Good Name Later said:

For Youri to go, doesn’t there have to be a club interested in his services? Clubs aren’t exactly scrambling at the door for him. 
 

£30mil for a player that is overrun in the press, no turn of speed and has been consistently below average for a good proportion of the season. Yes, he’s capable of the unbelievable moment. 
 

£30mil? Equally conceivable he runs down is contract and waits for the big pay day as a free agent. 
 

Legend for the FA Cup goal - Give over. He had a moment of greatness. It was a collective team effort to afford him that moment of greatness. 👍🏻 

That is the exact reason why he is a club legend. To smash that in from there in an FA Cup final to win us the trophy. Team effort indeed, but no one else in our squad is or was capable of scoring that cup winning goal.

 

The 2 seasons prior where he performed superbly in the main cement his legendary status for me.

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, Pick Good Name Later said:

For Youri to go, doesn’t there have to be a club interested in his services? Clubs aren’t exactly scrambling at the door for him. 
 

£30mil for a player that is overrun in the press, no turn of speed and has been consistently below average for a good proportion of the season. Yes, he’s capable of the unbelievable moment. 
 

£30mil? Equally conceivable he runs down is contract and waits for the big pay day as a free agent. 
 

Legend for the FA Cup goal - Give over. He had a moment of greatness. It was a collective team effort to afford him that moment of greatness. 👍🏻 

 

don't forget Kels contribution in getting us there.

[filbertway]

16 hours ago, MrsJohnMurphy said:

I want Youri to stay, have the season of his life get us into Europe and leave on a free with our eternal thanks

 

Love the bloke

That's a weird attitude. If we were a charity shop I'd agree with your sentiment, why you'd want to lost a £40 million pound player on a free is beyond me. I suppose it gets you a few likes which is the ultimate aim of such a nonsense post though right? haha

[JimJams]

He's probably factoring in the money we'd get for european football (Presumably CL) as offsetting any fee we might be missing out on.

[los dedos]

2 hours ago, jonthefox said:

If he hasn't made his mind up yet , a quick read on here will soon sort it. 

 

 

 

Ps, Youri , we love you. sign a new contract 

Yea a few comments on a forum will make him change his mind .🙄

He was never going to sign a new contract.  As wrote earlier signing on for only 4 years initially was all part of the plan. 

[filbertway]

6 minutes ago, JimJams said:

He's probably factoring in the money we'd get for european football (Presumably CL) as offsetting any fee we might be missing out on.

If we're factoring CL money after Youri fires us into the top 4 next season, then I'd also like a toke on that crack pipe please

 

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

He was one of best players in the until he got injured against Leeds away, missing 4 PL games, in the other 12 he played between the start of the season and boxing day he scored 5 and got 2 assists with an average rating of 7.28 on whoscored.

 

He form only really went down hill after his injury and the switch to 4-3-3 which doesn't suit him due to his lack of mobility 

 

 

 

 

Strongly disagree with this, but we’ve been through it before in these threads, Vardy was completely carrying us up until November time and my memory was that we were all but a 1 man attack until Maddison hit form. 2 of those 5 Tielemams goals were penalties when Vardy wasn’t on the pitch. Nothing wrong with being a good reserve penalty taker, it’s a good trait to have, but probably not worth being called one of the best players based on it.

 

Whoscored ratings are notoriously skewed towards 1 or 2 certain attributes (and is often satirically called whodribbled.com) and is not a very good indicator of quality. And worth reiterating he never got above a 6.0 for 10 games in a row between the opening game and the ManUtd game on here.

 

Going back to Boxing Day which you mentioned on the Tielemans thread, pg. 162 and it seems most thought he’d had a disappointing season til that point 

 

 

It’s all subjective of course, but I’ve seen a couple of people try to say recently that Tielemans was brilliant in the first half of the season, which I find incredibly surprising as my memory is of him being incredibly underwhelming outside of the ManUtd and Brentford games and us being  massively over-reliant on first Vardy and then Maddison in the first half of last season.

Edited 11 June 2022 by Sampson

[coolhandfox]

24 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Strongly disagree with this, but we’ve been through it before in these threads, Vardy was completely carrying us up until November time and my memory was that we were all but a 1 man attack until Maddison hit form. 2 of those 5 Tielemams goals were penalties when Vardy wasn’t on the pitch. Nothing wrong with being a good reserve penalty taker, it’s a good trait to have, but probably not worth being called one of the best players based on it.

 

Whoscored ratings are notoriously skewed towards 1 or 2 certain attributes (and is often satirically called whodribbled.com) and is not a very good indicator of quality. And worth reiterating he never got above a 6.0 for 10 games in a row between the opening game and the ManUtd game on here.

 

Going back to Boxing Day which you mentioned on the Tielemans thread, pg. 162 and it seems most thought he’d had a disappointing season til that point 

 

 

It’s all subjective of course, but I’ve seen a couple of people try to say recently that Tielemans was brilliant in the first half of the season, which I find incredibly surprising as my memory is of him being incredibly underwhelming outside of the ManUtd and Brentford games and us being  massively over-reliant on first Vardy and then Maddison in the first half of that season.

Fotmob also give him an average rating of 7.59 for those game are they notoriously skewed to? You really think foxestalk rating are not more skewed then independent source who have no bias?

 

Of course people are disappoint with his and the team season, because both him and the team weren't high the height of previous seasons.

 

So who was playing better in the first 1/4 of the season, other then maybe Maddison and Vardy? 

 

In the first 12 games I'm referring to Maddison scored 1 and had 0 assists. 

 

 

Edited 11 June 2022 by coolhandfox

[Sampson]

22 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Fotmob also give him an average rating of 7.59 for those game are they notoriously skewed to? You really think foxestalk rating are not more skewed then independent source who have no bias?

 

Of course people are disappoint with his and the team season, because both him and the team weren't high the height of previous seasons.

 

So who was playing better in the first 1/4 of the season, other then maybe Maddison and Vardy? 

 

 

Of course they are. Any stats based rating system will be skewed towards certain stars and given different weightings, they will also never accurately be able to take into account off the ball work, player positioning on goals, how they fit into a team or anything else that can’t be shown via stats. Individual stats are incredibly useful for individual parts of a player’s game, but aggregated eye tests are always going to be more useful than aggregated stats ratings over several games. Not saying foxestalk ratings aren’t flawed but dismissing them and favouring fotmob or who scored ratings doesn’t strike me as being a particularly good argument.

 

Sure, but people were underwhelmed with his individual performances, as well as the teams, they can be separate things.

 

Off the top of my head, Iheanacho as well started the season really well and most couldn’t understand why he wasn’t starting before tapering off, he definitely was better than Tielemans in the first 1/4 of the season. My memory also is that Ricardo had a good start to the season too before getting injured and was being talked up more than Tielemans, not sure how much that covered the first 1/4 of the season though.

 

It doesn’t really matter though in this context what other players were doing really if we’re just talking about Tielemans’ performances being poor or not, even being the best of a bad bunch (which I don’t think Tielemans even was) still means poor performances.

 

I’m not sure what you’re arguing for if you agree he was disappointing in the first part of the season? Wasn’t the whole point that you were responding against him being pretty poor for most of last season? 

Edited 11 June 2022 by Sampson

[MrsJohnMurphy]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

That's a weird attitude. If we were a charity shop I'd agree with your sentiment, why you'd want to lost a £40 million pound player on a free is beyond me. I suppose it gets you a few likes which is the ultimate aim of such a nonsense post though right? haha

It's not rocket science 

[coolhandfox]

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Of course they are. Any stats based rating system will be skewed towards certain stars and given different weightings, they will also never accurately be able to take into account off the ball work, player positioning on goals, how they fit into a team or anything else that can’t be shown via stats. Individual stats are incredibly useful for individual parts of a player’s game, but aggregated eye tests are always going to be more useful than aggregated stats ratings over several games. Not saying foxestalk ratings aren’t flawed but dismissing them and favouring fotmob or who scored ratings doesn’t strike me as being a particularly good argument.

Why do you think football club spend a fortune on analytics staff and lean heavily on stats to support recruitment because it give a unbiased view of a player, I'm combining that with my own eye test of how he played in the first 12 games.

 

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Sure, but people were underwhelmed with his individual performances, as well as the teams, they can be separate things.

 

Iheanacho as well started the season really well and most couldn’t understand why he wasn’t starting before tapering off, he definitely was better than Tielemans in the first 1/4 of the season. My memory also is that Ricardo had a good start to the season too before getting injured and was being talked up more than Tielemans, not sure how much that covered the first 1/4 of the season though.

No he didn't, he had one goal contribution in the first 6 games and only 3 in the first 12. 

 

Ricardo is a decent shout, so you have Vardy and Ricardo who were better then Youri in the first 1/4 of the season.

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

It doesn’t really matter though in this context what other players were doing really if we’re just talking about Tielemans’ performances being poor or not, even being the best of a bad bunch (which I don’t think Tielemans even was) still means poor performances.

 

I’m not sure what you’re arguing for if you agree he was disappointing in the first part of the season? Wasn’t the whole point that you were responding against him being pretty poor for most of last season? 

I'm say he was pretty good in the first 12 until he got injured and we swap to 4-3-3,  however he didn't hit the height of the previous seasons.

 

[Sampson]

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Why do you think football club spend a fortune on analytics staff and lean heavily on stats to support recruitment because it give a unbiased view of a player, I'm combining that with my own eye test of how he played in the first 12 games.

 

No he didn't, he had one goal contribution in the first 6 games and only 3 in the first 12. 

 

Ricardo is a decent shout, so you have Vardy and Ricardo who were better then Youri in the first 1/4 of the season.

I'm say he was pretty good in the first 12 until he got injured and we swap to 4-3-3,  however he didn't hit the height of the previous seasons.

 

Football clubs spend millions on analytics because objective stats are incredibly useful. These rating systems aren’t objective stats though, they’re some guys subjective opinion on how to weight stats. A player can have a rating of 9.0 or 4.3 depending on whether someone decides number of dribbles or dribble success % is more important or if attacking or defend stats should be more important to a fullback. These aren’t objective ratings.

 

And goal contributions aren’t the be all and end all. Because he was dropped for Barnes then kept changing games when he came into the side. It’s a weird irrelevant argument about Iheanacho anyway, doesn’t really have anything to do with Tielemans.

 

And then we have to disagree. I think Tielemans really was pretty poor outside of 2 or 3 matches and no one other than Vardy or Maddison played well in that period.