Youri replacement ?

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, brookfox said:

Thanks for making that a more challenging w*nk. For either of them!

Don`t forget, hard work is its own reward  

[lcfc sheff]

58 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

This. He's irreplaceable, there's only 5-10 players in Europe that are at his level in terms of what he does, and those players are people like Veratti, Locatelli, Jorginho, etc.

 

We signed Soumare in the summer, and now have KDH. We've been using 433 or variants of it a lot this season, and that's the system I see as being our future. It's easier to get hard running box-to-box midfielders rather than Belgian Xavi's like Tielemans is! We will probably play a bit more like Liverpool do with more emphasis on the front 3 for creativity. 

 

The other possibility is a player called Samuele Ricci who we've been linked with a number of times who plays for Genoa. I could see us signing someone like that, IE an up and coming version of Tielemans, but we won't be able to sign a player who hits the ground running or is as good as Youri. Tielemans was our record signing and proved to be more than worth the money paid for him.

 

The next phase of the team is probably built around James Maddison and to a lesser extent Harvey Barnes, Patson Daka and Ademola Lookman. After a terrible start this season, Maddison is at his very best, so we can make this work. It will of course be a sad day when a player of Youri's quality leaves, but he should be playing one of the elite clubs in Europe, the guy is top class.

 

 

I’d love another hard running midfielder similar to KDH but on the right of midfield with soumare or Ndidi at the base of it. Like you say stylistically close to Liverpool is what we need to be aiming at with the quality of front players we have available.
 

 

[Finnegan]

20 minutes ago, ttfn said:

We need to start again,

 

I think that might be a slight exaggeration. We lack depth, especially if you take the players you named out, but the first eleven would still ultimately look like this:

 

X

Castagne/Ricardo, Fofana Soyuncu, Justin

Maddison, Ndidi, Soumaré/KDH

X, Daka, Barnes

 

I mean that's only really two obvious holes. I'd even go so far as to say you could put Ward and Perez in the gaps and expect that team to finish 6th.

 

I appreciate the point about needing someone to move the ball forwards but not all vertical movement comes straight down the centre. Liverpool don't deploy a midfield that is full of defence splitting through ballers. It's a midfield of grafters.

 

Plus, it's taken a remarkably short time for people to forget how good Madders was at 8 when Rodgers first arrived. He's playing well at 10 now, sure, but if the system changes he's more than capable of dropping a little deeper and being the man to move the ball vertically from deeper on the pitch. 

[lcfc sheff]

Josh da silva would’ve been a cool signing pre injury

[Le Renard]

Rodgers will just adapt the system(s), and if successful, then Tielemans, although not forgotten, will not be mourned for too long.  I for one though will not miss his running in mud impression.

[Guest ttfn]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think that might be a slight exaggeration. We lack depth, especially if you take the players you named out, but the first eleven would still ultimately look like this:

 

X

Castagne/Ricardo, Fofana Soyuncu, Justin

Maddison, Ndidi, Soumaré/KDH

X, Daka, Barnes

 

I mean that's only really two obvious holes. I'd even go so far as to say you could put Ward and Perez in the gaps and expect that team to finish 6th.

 

I appreciate the point about needing someone to move the ball forwards but not all vertical movement comes straight down the centre. Liverpool don't deploy a midfield that is full of defence splitting through ballers. It's a midfield of grafters.

 

Plus, it's taken a remarkably short time for people to forget how good Madders was at 8 when Rodgers first arrived. He's playing well at 10 now, sure, but if the system changes he's more than capable of dropping a little deeper and being the man to move the ball vertically from deeper on the pitch. 

“Starting again” is not about the players, it’s about the system. We might only need 2 players for the first XI but we are heavily dependent on Tielemans’ forward passing to get attacks going, and have been for a while. We will not find somebody as good at doing what he does so we will need to think differently about how we approach it, much as we needed to when Mahrez left. That was one of Puel’s biggest mistakes, he was still setting the team up as if we had one of the best wingers in the world - it was only when Rodgers (and Tielemans) came in that we were able to make the fundamental changes needed to compensate for Mahrez leaving.

 

I honestly think that team would struggle to finish top 10, not that there is anything wrong with that, especially for a team in transition. You’re taking the best player at the club out and replacing him with either an unproven new singing or an unproven academy graduate, one of the league’s better goalkeepers and replacing him with a player who hasn’t played a PL game. And Soyuncu is no replacement for Evans… 

[sphericalfox]

I think Youri will be on his way. The concern is the potential loss of Ndidi. There are plenty of clubs lacking what he brings to the table, and I can see the vultures circling this summer.

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

Okay at a push I'll take that Verratti lad at PSG. But I'm not happy about it!!

[Jobyfox]

7 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

I think Youri will be on his way. The concern is the potential loss of Ndidi. There are plenty of clubs lacking what he brings to the table, and I can see the vultures circling this summer.

I'm not sure about Ndidi. He's good, but he neither carries the ball well enough or passes well enough to be great. 

 

I'm hoping that he's a player a bit like Schmeichel: too good for most clubs, but not quite good enough for the elite. In that way we hold onto him for the long term. 

[sphericalfox]

3 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

I'm not sure about Ndidi. He's good, but he neither carries the ball well enough or passes well enough to be great. 

 

I'm hoping that he's a player a bit like Schmeichel: too good for most clubs, but not quite good enough for the elite. In that way we hold onto him for the long term. 

That's optimistic for sure, but his interceptions and tackling stats are second to none. There'll be bigger clubs who'll want him just for those reasons. His faults can be subsidised elsewhere in a good team.

[Silver surfer 1]

As a replacement I would look at Donny van debeek .  

[Ric Flair]

I'm torn between us recognising we won't get a like for like player and focusing the majority if our transfer budget on a left footed right winger and a genuine upgrade on Perez to challenge Maddison, or we go and try and get a creative deep lying central midfielder who will score and assist 15+ a season.

 

That last point is the essential part, what we lose from Tielemans in goals and assists have to be picked up elsewhere. When we lost Mahrez, we had to do so and did by having Maddison and then Tielemans and Barnes bring goals where as previously our central midfielders and left winger didn't really contribute much in that department. 

 

So as a bare minimum we have to find a work around.

 

I would like us to improve our right wing significantly and also to to not fill Youri's shoes with a midfielder like Soumare who's take on goals and assists are less than 5 in his entire career. Tielemans does that in a month sometimes. 

 

KDH has a skill set that will be massively beneficial to us and he will be a major part of our future, likewise I believe Sammy Braybrooke will be. But we'll still look to replace Tielemans if he sadly goes. Donny Van de Beek is a great shout and mirrors Tielemans career path, but slightly older. He's flopped at an unsuitable big club and we'd be the perfect new challenge.

 

Other suggestions would be:

 

Ryan Gravenbach

Carlos Soler

Maxence Caqueret

Matheus Nunes

Riqui Puig (not sure he'd suit the PL)

Cole Bassett (very rough diamond)

 

[Finnegan]

There's never been any credible push for Ndidi from any big club in his time here and he's now in his fifth year here. Tabloid gossip from time to time but nothing threatening. 

 

He's in a weird position where he's quite clearly amongst the best in the world at a particular role but it's not a role that's desirable to the sort of clubs who buy "best in the world" players. There's something of a glass ceiling above him really. 

 

If you're a club that dominates your league and reliably competes for titles every year, chances are you defend well collectively as a team with such quality all over the park that you don't need a specialist ball winner shielding your back four. You undoubtedly have a holding midfielder but he's one that's expected to also be good on the ball. 

 

Guys like Casemiro, Fabinho, Fernandinho, Busquets, moving in to the likes of Jorginho, Gundogan, Verratti get deployed in these deeper roles and are expected to be good footballers and are. 

 

Ndidi may dominate statistics for tackles and interceptions but he lacks fundamentals that would make him coveted by elite clubs. I don't think we're in considerable risk of losing him tbh. 

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Ryan Gravenbach

 

I love your optimism. 

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

I love your optimism. 

Hahahaa it would see a huge pipe dream but it's not thst difficult to obtain players from Ajax but there very best players are north of £50m and we'd have to make a huge show of intent. It would essentially be sell Tielemans for £50m and throw the lot and change at them for Gravenbach and then fingers crossed no elite club are yet willing to pounce.

[Haywood_6]

Would be a bit of a gut punch if he was to leave this January. Hope here's here until the summer at least

[fazzyfox]

I always thought it would be Liverpool or abroad, he must feel he should be playing Champions League football every season. It would be very hard to get a like for like replacement so perhaps using the money to strengthen elsewhere as well, finally address the right wing (and offload Perez, reinvesting what we get for him), then in his position I could see Loftus-Cheek as an option, nice smooth passer, but will he ever be fit and available for 35+ games a season? Then there's KD-H competing as well, what will he become in the next year / 18 months?

Edited 13 January 2022 by fazzyfox

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hahahaa it would see a huge pipe dream but it's not thst difficult to obtain players from Ajax but there very best players are north of £50m and we'd have to make a huge show of intent. It would essentially be sell Tielemans for £50m and throw the lot and change at them for Gravenbach and then fingers crossed no elite club are yet willing to pounce.

 

Gravenbach isn't like buying Neres () or Tagliafico or something though. 

 

Gravenbach is in the De Light / De Jong bracket of Ajax hype. Both Ajax and the boy himself are well aware of the potential he's seen as having. It's not only that he'd cost a metric truck load, it's that he expects to be bought by a Champions League club. 

 

Moreover, Ajax are making increasing waves in the Champions League the longer Ten Hag stays there so its already an excellent opportunity to showcase your ability as a youngster, we can't really offer him much that he can't get by staying there. I doubt we'd even vastly improve his salary. 

[adejo92]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

Completely different players.

 

This isn't about an 'exact' replacement in terms of style of play etc, it's about replacing with a player who can replicate Youri's contribution to the team getting results.

 

So far this season, Gallagher has more goals, more assists, more shots on target, higher shooting accuracy, over twice as many crosses delivered, more clean sheets, more interceptions, over twice as many tackles.

 

Yes he's not an exact clone of Youri, but if we were to lose him, I'd be more than happy with Gallagher.

 

Much more so than JWP.

 

At the end of the day, we won't be getting Gallagher or JWP, neither will we get anyone as good as Youri any time soon.

Edited 13 January 2022 by adejo92

[adejo92]

[Deeg67]

2 hours ago, sphericalfox said:

I think Youri will be on his way. The concern is the potential loss of Ndidi. There are plenty of clubs lacking what he brings to the table, and I can see the vultures circling this summer.

Ndidi is too inept on the ball to fit with one of the really elite clubs.  That's why there have been almost never been rumors about anyone chasing him.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, adejo92 said:

 

This isn't about an 'exact' replacement in terms of style of play etc, it's about replacing with a player who can replicate Youri's contribution to the team getting results.

 

So far this season, Gallagher has more goals, more assists, more shots on target, higher shooting accuracy, over twice as many crosses delivered, more clean sheets, more interceptions, over twice as many tackles.

 

Yes he's not an exact clone of Youri, but if we were to lose him, I'd be more than happy with Gallagher.

 

Much more so than JWP.

 

At the end of the day, we won't be getting Gallagher or JWP, neither will we get anyone as good as Youri any time soon.

Gallagher is more a Maddison than Tielemans type player but that's not to suggest we couldn't play Maddison and Gallagher in the same team but Tielemans is very unique in that he plays a deep lying role and yet still provides goals and assists, not to mention the sheer volume of main supply of other goals that start from him opening up the opposition.

 

Gallagher is an exceptional talent, I'd be surprised if Chelsea sell him.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Gravenbach isn't like buying Neres () or Tagliafico or something though. 

 

Gravenbach is in the De Light / De Jong bracket of Ajax hype. Both Ajax and the boy himself are well aware of the potential he's seen as having. It's not only that he'd cost a metric truck load, it's that he expects to be bought by a Champions League club. 

 

Moreover, Ajax are making increasing waves in the Champions League the longer Ten Hag stays there so its already an excellent opportunity to showcase your ability as a youngster, we can't really offer him much that he can't get by staying there. I doubt we'd even vastly improve his salary. 

I feel like Gravenbach's stock has diminished slightly since the hype machine last season, will be interesting to see. He's still only 19 so I'd expect another year or so at Ajax before one of the elite come with £60m +

[An Sionnach]

Tielemans would fetch around 50 million now but only 30 in the summer. However he may be advised to see his contract out with us and opt for the signing on fee and better salary. He is still relatively young so plenty of time. We,of course, need the money to sign a proper replacement so a difficult situation. He would certainly strengthen our midfield next season especially as KDH and Soumaré should be nearer top form. If we benefit from his presence and finish back in the top six , it might be worth it. Predicting the future in football is not easy and some would say a mug's game.

[mikey_b]

14 hours ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

What's Muzzy Izzet doing theses days 

I'll ask him, see him in the local chippy most weeks