Lionator Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 2 minutes ago, Dunge said: Maybe to the negotiating table, where Ukraine offer full recognition of Russia’s gains in exchange for an end to the war and NATO membership for what remains of the rest of Ukraine. That feels like the endpoint; the question is when, and how much land Ukraine will have to cede. Although I suspect Putin will fancy seeing another US election before he decides genuinely to take to the negotiating table. See whether he can get a coward like Trump in who flees in the face of conflict. Putin’s waiting right now for something to change in his favour. It’s his MO. Putin is very chirpy at the moment judging by his press appearances. I suspect there’s been some kinda swing towards Russia on the battlefield and he’s using the media to be the forefront of it, whereas he hid himself away post-Kherson. I have heard many say that it’s drifting towards a frozen conflict somewhere around current lines. If there is the option of long-lasting, genuine security agreements aka NATO protection/iron curtain for Ukraine which would guarantee no further Russian military action, then I think that’s a better use of resources than continually pumping Ukraine with weapons. Obviously Ukraine shouldn’t have to agree with that and should be allowed to keep pushing but the will of the west’s public will change if they aren’t getting anywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 1 hour ago, Lionator said: Where do we go if this counter offensive doesn’t make any significant gains? They have only committed 3 of the 22 brigades ready for the counter offensive so it’s not even started in it’s true form- atm they are probing and seeing the where the weaknesses are. It’s also very possible that they are waiting for the flooding to dissipate Before the full counteroffensive. And/ Or they are waiting on the F16s.. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 39 minutes ago, Lionator said: Putin is very chirpy at the moment judging by his press appearances. I suspect there’s been some kinda swing towards Russia on the battlefield and he’s using the media to be the forefront of it, whereas he hid himself away post-Kherson. I have heard many say that it’s drifting towards a frozen conflict somewhere around current lines. If there is the option of long-lasting, genuine security agreements aka NATO protection/iron curtain for Ukraine which would guarantee no further Russian military action, then I think that’s a better use of resources than continually pumping Ukraine with weapons. Obviously Ukraine shouldn’t have to agree with that and should be allowed to keep pushing but the will of the west’s public will change if they aren’t getting anywhere. it’s all kidology. If he appears chipper, that can boost his troops morale. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 And as evidence.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 34 minutes ago, MPH said: And as evidence.. It has crossed my mind that he is spreading false information. If the stuff he is saying was true you'd think there would be some repercussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 35 minutes ago, MPH said: And as evidence.. Think I've taken the view to just ignore both sides for the next two months as it'll be propaganda overdrive. Poor blokes are having to run through a 20-mile deep minefield so I'm not expecting them to rattle through. I will say it's insane how it's the head of f**king Wagner that I've come to believe as the most credible source of news from the Russian side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 35 minutes ago, MPH said: And as evidence.. Sounds an angry man, mind, i think Russians could sound angry eating candy floss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 17 minutes ago, Captain... said: It has crossed my mind that he is spreading false information. If the stuff he is saying was true you'd think there would be some repercussions. Bit like Boris then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 1 hour ago, Zear0 said: Think I've taken the view to just ignore both sides for the next two months as it'll be propaganda overdrive. Poor blokes are having to run through a 20-mile deep minefield so I'm not expecting them to rattle through. I will say it's insane how it's the head of f**king Wagner that I've come to believe as the most credible source of news from the Russian side. exellent points - if you think an election is going to have spin on it then war is an election’s big mean older brother. I’m quite fascinated by his continued outbursts and how he seems to keep getting away with it. Is the Russian government scared of Wagner? It’s quite intriguing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 1 hour ago, MPH said: exellent points - if you think an election is going to have spin on it then war is an election’s big mean older brother. I’m quite fascinated by his continued outbursts and how he seems to keep getting away with it. Is the Russian government scared of Wagner? It’s quite intriguing.. The Russian government certainly seem to have ideas about who should and should not fall out of a window that can be hard to predict. Look at some of the opposition voices still alive in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 I think the west should make clear it will back Ukraine however long it takes. I'd also prefer if the counteroffensive was halted if they need more of specific equipment to tackle minefields. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 6 hours ago, MPH said: They have only committed 3 of the 22 brigades ready for the counter offensive so it’s not even started in it’s true form- atm they are probing and seeing the where the weaknesses are. It’s also very possible that they are waiting for the flooding to dissipate Before the full counteroffensive. And/ Or they are waiting on the F16s.. I highly doubt Zelenskyy would be making the comments that he has done if things were all going swimmingly. It’s going exactly how Mark Milley predicted yet he was slandered for being negative about the chances. The real truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 Also if you get chance, read the Ben Wallace interview in the economist, very enlightening about how the foreign Secretary has gone behind his back. Doesn’t want nato presence in asia and like France wants our individual nations to be more self-sufficient and not at the mercy of America. Sadly he’ll probably get pushed out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 2 minutes ago, Lionator said: Also if you get chance, read the Ben Wallace interview in the economist, very enlightening about how the foreign Secretary has gone behind his back. Doesn’t want nato presence in asia and like France wants our individual nations to be more self-sufficient and not at the mercy of America. Sadly he’ll probably get pushed out eventually. Probably the only cabinet member who has my respect (BW that is). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 It would be ideal if we could exert some kind of leverage over Chinese governance of Hong Kong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 21 June 2023 Share Posted 21 June 2023 47 minutes ago, Lionator said: I highly doubt Zelenskyy would be making the comments that he has done if things were all going swimmingly. It’s going exactly how Mark Milley predicted yet he was slandered for being negative about the chances. The real truth is probably somewhere in the middle. im sure the Russians knew exactly what they were doing blowing up the dam and there’s no doubt it’s done exactly what was intended- slowed down the Ukranian advancement.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 8 hours ago, LiberalFox said: It would be ideal if we could exert some kind of leverage over Chinese governance of Hong Kong. It would be ideal if we stayed out of world affairs in the first place. We might have some money then. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 11 hours ago, LiberalFox said: It would be ideal if we could exert some kind of leverage over Chinese governance of Hong Kong. They may be immoral/dictatorship but we do not need any confrontation with China ffs. We are a weak middle country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 11 hours ago, LiberalFox said: It would be ideal if we could exert some kind of leverage over Chinese governance of Hong Kong. That particular horse is so long bolted that it’s already been through the knackers yard … 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 PsyOps is wild at the minute, I genuinely don’t believe anything from either side at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 1 hour ago, Lionator said: PsyOps is wild at the minute, I genuinely don’t believe anything from either side at the moment. Perhaps this might be because this is the first "big" war that has been fought since the Internet really exploded with social media and the ability to deliver so much more propaganda to so many more people quickly and efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 4 hours ago, leicsmac said: Perhaps this might be because this is the first "big" war that has been fought since the Internet really exploded with social media and the ability to deliver so much more propaganda to so many more people quickly and efficiently. Do you think they’ll blow the nuclear plant? I’m pretty scared tbh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
String fellow Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 The Russians didn't like having 'their' bridge in Crimea damaged a few months ago, and mounted revenge attacks against Kiev as a result. So will the latest bridge to be damaged also be a cause for their outrage? Apparently, it was hit by British missiles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 59 minutes ago, Lionator said: Do you think they’ll blow the nuclear plant? I’m pretty scared tbh. Sadly, yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 22 June 2023 Share Posted 22 June 2023 I think, depending on how the winds blow, if the nuclear power plant blows or leaks then it could destroy parts of southern Russia as well as Ukraine… all the areas Russia are fighting so hard to take could be destroyed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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