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Sampson

Ukraine

By Sampson, in General Chat

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fox_favourite

fox_favourite

Posted
Posted (edited)

Will this test the loyalty of the Russian armed forces/home guard. Are they just going to let it happen without little resistance? 

 

Also, what if it does turn into a fire fight in Moscow? What would the general public feel? 

Edited by fox_favourite
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Zear0

Zear0

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Stinkenzo said:

Sauce?

 

I mean...it's flat field with gunshots and smoke billowing.  Doesn't exactly narrow it down too much in that part of the work currently.

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Zear0

Zear0

Posted
Posted

"Wagner seizes military facilities in second city - BBC sources


BBC sources are now saying that Wagner fighters have taken control of all military facilities in the city of Voronezh, a halfway point between Rostov-on-Don (where Wagner also says it's in charge) and the capital Moscow.

 

Voronezh city officials are yet to publicly comment on the claim.

 

Meanwhile, Voronezh region governor Aleksandr Gusev has warned that there are many fake reports circulating about a movement of an armoured column in the region.

He also says the Russian armed forces are now carrying out "operational and combat measures" in the Voronezh region as part of the early declared counter-terrorist operation."

 

Be curious if the military facilities they're taking are the forces being supportive to Wagner or taking a "f**k this, I'll keep my head down" approach.  There's a good reason PMCs are generally banned in most countries Vlad.

 

Having to do some weekend working and I'm glued to this...

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weller54

weller54

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

Will this test the loyalty of the Russian armed forces/home guard. Are they just going to let it happen without little resistance? 

 

Also, what if it does turn into a fire fight in Moscow? What would the general public feel? 

Don't panic 

Don't panic!! 

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gerblod

gerblod

Posted
Posted

This has all the signs of an intended coup d'état by Prigozhin. He's singled out Shoigu as the villain in the Kremlin but that's a challenge on Putin. If Putin sacks Shoigu then he's been levered by Prigozhin person and weakened as the strong man of Moscow.

Wagner have been driving the assault in the south and I wonder what this is going to do to the remaining Russian forces there. Will they fold under the Ukrainian counteroffensive, did Prigozhin see it was going to drag on with more and more casualties to his divisions? Will his troops stay loyal to him. He's taken them out of the meat-grinder but, as long as they stay with him, they run the risk of being executed for treason should he be defeated. Who's going to field a force strong enough to defeat him?

Zelenski must be feeling tentatively relieved by this turn of events. I suspect that Mr. P is as nasty a bastard as Mr. P - I trust this will weaken the Russian military for some time to come.

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Zear0

Zear0

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, gerblod said:

This has all the signs of an intended coup d'état by Prigozhin. He's singled out Shoigu as the villain in the Kremlin but that's a challenge on Putin. If Putin sacks Shoigu then he's been levered by Prigozhin person and weakened as the strong man of Moscow.

Wagner have been driving the assault in the south and I wonder what this is going to do to the remaining Russian forces there. Will they fold under the Ukrainian counteroffensive, did Prigozhin see it was going to drag on with more and more casualties to his divisions? Will his troops stay loyal to him. He's taken them out of the meat-grinder but, as long as they stay with him, they run the risk of being executed for treason should he be defeated. Who's going to field a force strong enough to defeat him?

Zelenski must be feeling tentatively relieved by this turn of events. I suspect that Mr. P is as nasty a bastard as Mr. P - I trust this will weaken the Russian military for some time to come.

Havn't you been listening to Yev?  It's definitely not a coup...

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Guest Mee-9

Guest Mee-9

Posted
Posted

For us WW2 buffs. 

 

It's like Heinrich Himmler (the head of the SS) declaring war on Wilhelm Keitel (Head of the German Army) and not outright declaring war on Hitler for fear of treason and upsetting the all powerful dictator.

 

This could be a huge moment. The Wagner Group lets remember are war criminals and have been responsible for the slaughter of many innocent people and civilians in Ukraine. They are not good people, but seem to be retaliating due to the tension between them and the army. 

 

Could be a large Soviet Stalin style purge of Wagner should it fail. All depends and hangs on the support that Wagner have and whether the military defect across. 

 

Lukashenko looking like the weak Mussolini fleeing in fear. He should be rounded up also and brought in front of the Hague. 

 

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cambridgefox

cambridgefox

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Always thought it would need someone on the inside to put a stop to this.  Never thought it would be wagner though.

Thing is,Wagner still want Ukraine back as Russia.So I’m not sure what this does for Ukraine.

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LCFCCHRIS

LCFCCHRIS

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, cambridgefox said:

Thing is,Wagner still want Ukraine back as Russia.So I’m not sure what this does for Ukraine.

In my eyes the best possible outcome is that this stirs discontent about the war amongst the Russian people, enough so that whoever comes out on top is forced to also retreat from Ukraine. Prigohzin’s rhetoric has remained that he doesn’t want this to hurt the army’s efforts against their “enemy” aka Ukraine. 
So for that to happen I think this needs to be as drawn out as possible. Funnily enough I think I’d rather Putin remain in power, killing Prigozhin, but it to go on as long as possible. That way, Putin remains on shaky ground in the eyes of his people and loses a lot of trust, wastes military resources and hopefully with the eye off the battlefield the Russian troops in Ukraine suffer bigger losses or morale is seriously hit. 
 

Prigozhin is possible even more of a madman that Putin and if he takes control of the army we could see the torture and brutal, illegal tactics increase tenfold over what they already are. 

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yorkie1999

yorkie1999

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, cambridgefox said:

Thing is,Wagner still want Ukraine back as Russia.So I’m not sure what this does for Ukraine.

Nah, Wagner troops want their criminal records ripped up, as was promised. Imagine being a prisoner and promised your freedom if you signed up to the military for 6 months, and then that 6 months ended and you get told to sign a contract to be in the Russian army, you’re gonna be a bit pissed off when your mates are getting blown to pieces around you, you’re going to moan to your boss and what’s he going to do, being an ex convict. I think that’s what this is all about and Moscow has been in denial to the Russian people, feeding them bullshit and hoping the war comes to an end. 

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