Ukraine

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Why wait for the west to decide?Just stop buying Chinese shit. 

It's not Joe Bloggs buying cheap tech. The west is heavily reliant on China's tech and their production of other cheap goods needed for western industry to manufacture western goods.

I imagine there's plenty of things made in China that, for example, motor manufacturing in Germany, Silicone Valley companies in the States depend on and expand that to the rest of the world and we are almost inextricably betrothed to them. 

[Parafox]

For anyone wishing to donate money rather than material stuff like clothes and blankets etc. to Ukraine, the Red Cross charity shops are taking cash donations which are then sent to Ukraine to be used by the Red Cross there to help more directly. Sending clothes etc is fine but they need to fund water bowsers, medicine supplies, hospital treatment for the acutely sick and/or injured, all kinds of indirect care that has been affected by this atrocity.

[whoareyaaa]

the only thing that will stop it is if a rich russian puts him to bed ambromvich looks like a bond villan get it done

[String fellow]

23 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

The only way to get those planes into Ukraine is to lie through your teeth and spout Bolox just like mad Vlad does ..  Biden needs to hold a press conference  .. “ Last night, the guard who was guarding a box that had the ignition keys to 27 old mig29’s that we had just bought off Poland fell asleep after consuming a bottle of Jack Daniels ..  imagine his horror  when he woke up to find the box had been forced open and the contents were gone !!!   If ANYONE has any information regarding this please contact me by email immediately [email protected]” 

 

That should do it ! ..  

I referred to maskirovka a couple of days ago - the Russian word for deception in war. So maybe you're right. Let's try a few underhand tricks ourselves, if it helps. To me, it seems odd that Putin was afraid of Ukraine's move towards the West economically, and potentially militarily, but seemingly unafraid of a response in kind to his veiled threat to nuke the UK. The conclusion must be that it was either an empty threat, or he's lost his sanity. Zelenskyy did say that we shouldn't be afraid of Putin. 

[Parafox]

6 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

the only thing that will stop it is if a rich russian puts him to bed ambromvich looks like a bond villan get it done

I know you're being rhetorical, but assassinating the bitch would leave a power vacuum. That rarely ends well. Not that this situation will either, I fear.

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, Guesty said:

Surely there comes a point where the West just have to cut off all the oil and gas from Russia. Countries who are buying it are effectively paying for these bombs hitting children's hospitals. It will be hard for them, but there comes a point where if we aren't going to intervene militarily then that's the least we can do.

 

Paying more for fuel or the spectre of nuclear war: I'd pay more for fuel. I think fuel duty here is 57.95p (£00.5795) a litre plus VAT on top  (not sure about other countries) maybe the governments can reduce it. People will point out world markets and knock on effects, and I understand. But are we not getting to drastic times.

 

But it's also their/our governments fault. Russia invaded Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, Donbass, shot down a Western airliner and assassinated people (accidently killing a British citizen) and what did the West do? Bought more and more oil and gas from them. Now we're funding this. No wonder Putin thinks we're weak and he can threaten us.     

 

 

Very difficult to do overnight but I’m pretty sure will happen now regardless, though unfortunately not quick enough for Ukraine. Bizarre that the West, and Europe in particular has got itself hooked into this dependency. Good article here from Monbiot.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/09/addiction-russian-gas-putin-military

[Heathrow fox]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

Why wait for the west to decide?Just stop buying Chinese shit. 

Good luck with that one

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, String fellow said:

If China won't do anything to weaken its global position, then surely threatening them with sanctions might stop them supporting Putin's barbarism. With the West insisting on not getting directly involved militarily, then massive economic sanctions, not just against Russia but also its allies, should perhaps be given consideration. Otherwise, what do we do? Just keep buying Chinese stuff whilst their chum in the Kremlin is destroying Ukraine? Today's scenes on the news almost had me in tears. 

What about all the other ‘big’ countries who abstained from UN votes (eg India) and have failed to effectively censure Russia, both verbally and financially?? I’m no apologist for China but I’m still not clear why you feel we should be imposing sanctions on them over ukraine.  There are oligarchs still enjoying the joys of London and being given plenty of time to move their assets away from the U.K. - maybe the EU and USA should be imposing sanctions on us ???

[Countryfox]

39 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Zelenskyy did say that we shouldn't be afraid of Putin. 

He’s absolutely right. At the moment he’s doing what all bullies do when they don’t get what they want ..  bully even more. In this case murdering civilians and stopping them getting any help. We’ve sleep walked into this but hopefully we’ll wake up and just say  NO ..  STOP.  I’m convinced now it’s the only way ..  red button or not. 

[SpacedX]

18 minutes ago, Parafox said:

I know you're being rhetorical, but assassinating the bitch would leave a power vacuum. That rarely ends well. Not that this situation will either, I fear.

Precisely. President Putin has surrounded himself with his 'siloviki' - Patrushev, Shoigu, Naryshkin (Putin's Josef Goebbels), Bortnikov - ex fellow Leningrad KGB (along with Patrushev). It is this hardline cabal of like-minded, hand picked security officers that cloaked in secrecy, fuel his agenda, stoke his anxieties and escalate tension. 

 

The technocrats are powerless and the oligarchs have no sway - they are terrified of Mr.Putin confiscating their wealth or being served a novichok sandwich for brunch in a Mayfair café. I suggested on Monday that with the politburo dissolved it would take internal pressure and influence on behalf of the state to remove him - the head of the FSB, or a major bank or the military, only, Bortnikov is the head of the FSB and his son Denis is chairman of VTB bank. 

 

It is clear that this invasion has been a complete catastrophe for Russia and Putin, furious with his advisors will be looking for scapegoats and could possibly turn on one of those close to him. More likely though, it will be those in his wider orbit that he will seek to make an example of. It's tempting to muse that if this continues on this ruinous path and hypothetically the days of this regime are numbered, one of his confidents will attempt to strike a Himmler-esque deal/betrayal with the west in exchange for his and the nation's acquittal.

 

Not going to happen. 

[String fellow]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

What about all the other ‘big’ countries who abstained from UN votes (eg India) and have failed to effectively censure Russia, both verbally and financially?? I’m no apologist for China but I’m still not clear why you feel we should be imposing sanctions on them over ukraine.  There are oligarchs still enjoying the joys of London and being given plenty of time to move their assets away from the U.K. - maybe the EU and USA should be imposing sanctions on us ???

Because China's market in the West is massive. India's is much less so. If we can't do anything militarily against Russia, then it seems to me that we should at least be considering the option of pressurising China in this way, just as we've imposed sanctions on Belarus, Russia's other best friend. As regards the oligarchs in London, maybe that's more to do with it being a major financial centre rather than anything more sinister. I'm just trying to think of ways to reign Putin in without direct NATO involvement, which could get very dangerous.

[Shane]

Has anyone else seen the clips of the propaganda being played in Russia? No wonder so many of em are brainwashed!! Straight out of the Goebbels playbook!!!

[BKLFox]

2 hours ago, kenny said:

The NLAWs are 40 years newer than the tanks they are taking out and this war is showing that the time for heavy armour is coming to an end.

 

Likewise the missiles we are sending are considerably more advanced than these jets. The jets are not in the same league as the Turkish drones that have been used extensively.

 

 

 

He who controls the skies and all that 🤷‍♂️ 

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Because China's market in the West is massive. India's is much less so. If we can't do anything militarily against Russia, then it seems to me that we should at least be considering the option of pressurising China in this way, just as we've imposed sanctions on Belarus, Russia's other best friend. As regards the oligarchs in London, maybe that's more to do with it being a major financial centre rather than anything more sinister. I'm just trying to think of ways to reign Putin in without direct NATO involvement, which could get very dangerous.

Belarus are being sanctioned because they are allowing Russian forces to invade ukraine and also launch weapons from their territory, not because they are Russia’s mates ….

 

you don’t pressure China into a position ……. They don’t respond well to ‘pressure’. 

[fuchsntf]

Too much Media & Govt .noise  in the West over Sanctions...They can ignore their Payments on debts..

Russia is Not dependant on outside rescources...This modern Society has Made up Too much crap,that countries must

have exchange, Import & export...Countries like Russia can look After themselves...Harvests,Farms can Feed the country

 

We the West can suppress Business so it hurts..!!

...No we cant, they dont Need Western European Business or monnies. The Russian Rich & Banks still have also  their

Finances spread in Russian Rupels and other Friendly countries Investment and Accounts that are accesable..

The Russian Government has no Ruck with their own normal Russian civilian.

Their armees can be fed..Peasant Farmers can Feed their Own areas

If Russia were So  desperate for fast-food business, they could create their Own KFC, & Mcdonalds etc to placate the Massies..

The Global Market losses, wont Effect the Russians, better said the Russian Govt. for a long while yet..

 

 

[String fellow]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Belarus are being sanctioned because they are allowing Russian forces to invade ukraine and also launch weapons from their territory, not because they are Russia’s mates ….

 

you don’t pressure China into a position ……. They don’t respond well to ‘pressure’. 

Lukashenko and Putin look like best mates to me!

[st albans fox]

Just now, String fellow said:

Lukashenko and Putin look like best mates to me!

Well lukashenko is putin’s puppet - I’m not sure vlad considers him a mate! 

there are other puppet regimes in the region ……

 

[Heathrow fox]

4 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Too much Media & Govt .noise  in the West over Sanctions...They can ignore their Payments on debts..

Russia is Not dependant on outside rescources...This modern Society has Made up Too much crap,that countries must

have exchange, Import & export...Countries like Russia can look After themselves...Harvests,Farms can Feed the country

 

We the West can suppress Business so it hurts..!!

...No we cant, they dont Need Western European Business or monnies. The Russian Rich & Banks still have also  their

Finances spread in Russian Rupels and other Friendly countries Investment and Accounts that are accesable..

The Russian Government has no Ruck with their own normal Russian civilian.

Their armees can be fed..Peasant Farmers can Feed their Own areas

If Russia were So  desperate for fast-food business, they could create their Own KFC, & Mcdonalds etc to placate the Massies..

The Global Market losses, wont Effect the Russians, better said the Russian Govt. for a long while yet..

 

 

Already had invented their own McDonald’s in Donetsk 

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Heathrow fox said:

Good luck with that one

I can only control what I do. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[SpacedX]

Kilo class identified in the Irish sea last month - but at least one of these ****ers is still out there...somewhere. 

 

 

[westernpark]

12 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Kilo class identified in the Irish sea last month - but at least one of these ****ers is still out there...somewhere. 

 

 

Uncle was a commander in the Navy, there’s a lot we don’t know. 6 months it’d take for contact when deployed. 

[Heathrow fox]

39 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I can only control what I do. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well if you can afford it,and have the time to sift through what China’s had it’s finger’s on at some point,then why not.I reckon it’d be difficult.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

 

Along with the anti tank stuff we're also sending a lot of these. Best in class surface to air missile system. Basically point and click and anything on the receiving end falls out the sky regardless of any countermeasures they have. 

 

This is a terrible terrible war but at the very least it's showing Putin his equipment is absolute junk compared to what NATO can field and that's with the US hardly getting involved. 

[Zear0]

40 minutes ago, westernpark said:

Uncle was a commander in the Navy, there’s a lot we don’t know. 6 months it’d take for contact when deployed. 

Slightly OT, but I'd give The Silent Deep by James Jinks and Peter Hennessy a go.  Fantastic read on the most "quiet" of naval programmes.

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, String fellow said:

I referred to maskirovka a couple of days ago - the Russian word for deception in war. So maybe you're right. Let's try a few underhand tricks ourselves, if it helps. To me, it seems odd that Putin was afraid of Ukraine's move towards the West economically, and potentially militarily, but seemingly unafraid of a response in kind to his veiled threat to nuke the UK. The conclusion must be that it was either an empty threat, or he's lost his sanity. Zelenskyy did say that we shouldn't be afraid of Putin. 

Or he was annoyed rather than afraid at the actions of Ukraine due to some misplaced sense of nationalist/historical pride, is committed, and is perfectly willing to escalate should NATO involve themselves heavily.

 

We can't know either way, and until we do perhaps the threats of nuclear hellfire might not be dismissed as a bluff?

 

4 hours ago, Countryfox said:

He’s absolutely right. At the moment he’s doing what all bullies do when they don’t get what they want ..  bully even more. In this case murdering civilians and stopping them getting any help. We’ve sleep walked into this but hopefully we’ll wake up and just say  NO ..  STOP.  I’m convinced now it’s the only way ..  red button or not. 

This sounds like wonderful tough talk and under most circumstances there would be wholesale agreement.

 

However, in this case I'm not sure it's showing an understanding of just what nuclear warfare and the subsequent downfall of civilisation is like, otherwise it would never be suggested. If that makes me somehow a coward or whatever, so be it - better that than someone who let humanity fall for the sake of appearing tough and "doing the right thing".