Ukraine

[foxes21]

On 01/04/2022 at 19:38, Sampson said:

Fun fact: But after the UK, US and USSR defeated the Germans in WW2, Churchill for a while actually mooted the UK and US breaking their alliance with the Soviet Union and to then turn round and invade the Soviets and push them back from Berlin. It was called “Operation Unthinkable”.

 

Roosevelt said it would never happen though as no one wanted more years of war.

Interestingly, Operation unthinkable (1) was originally drawn up in 1939, because of the Soviets occupation of Poland which lasted until 1941 (2). There was also a fear that the Soviet Union would team up with Czechoslovakia and wage war against both Western Democracy and Nazi Germany. So Operation Unthinkable was a serious consideration.

The plans were revisited in 1945 and the Allies & Nazi troops would have joined forces (3). The Japanese would have also got involved as they would have gone back into territories lost during the Liberation War. Some historians also argue Japan feared the threat of Soviet Invasion more than the atomic bomb (4), so joining Operation Unthinkable would have been in Japans best interests. However, it’s even possible Japan would have joined the Soviets.
 

It’s difficult to say who would have come out on top, Japan’s position in the conflict could have certainly tipped the balance either way. If the Soviets managed to drag the Allies deep into the Russian winter, it’s likely we’d have suffered the same fate as the Nazi’s in the Battle of Moscow.

 

And then, not long after, comes the cold war.. But did the cold war really ever end, or did our enemy simply change their strategy?  
 

Mr Bezmenov has some good insight into how the Soviets infiltrated the modern Western world:

 

 

 

 

 

 

(1) (2) (3) (4)  

 

Edited 7 April 2022 by foxes21

[oxford blue]

The parallel universe which Russia exists in was well explained by Putin's spokesman on Sky earlier:

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-putins-spokesman-denies-war-crimes-but-admits-significant-russian-losses-12584552

 

It was a goodwill gesture to facilitate peace to leave Kiev. Civilian deaths are faked or the result of Ukrainian troops occupying all the destroyed infrastructure.

With most Russians getting their news exclusively from state media it explains why most Russians continue to support the war (military operation!). 

 

 

[fuchsntf]

The Sky Interview with that Russian Worm was at the start ok, But he could have turned it around, say ok forget clickbait, and ask who the hell it was  since the beginning,destroying,Bombing at genocide-levels  domestic Civilian City Living areas , hospitals, & Schools knowing that it would Kill Children & families...

Why decimate public non Government buildings..!!!ich

Why did you invade a neighbouring Sovereign country, that Physically could never be a danger to your so called Mighty Great land...

by your own actions arent you actually destroying that very reason you should be seen as a Great serious nation..???

[marbles]

Looks bad, but Putin won’t care

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61028380.amp

[MPH]

So the Chechen( sp!?)  Leader has said that once the east is secured there is still the intention to take Kyiv..

 

Sounds like Putin would rather kill half his army than admit to a botched plan.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, MPH said:

So the Chechen( sp!?)  Leader has said that once the east is secured there is still the intention to take Kyiv..

 

Sounds like Putin would rather kill half his army than admit to a botched plan.

Unless the man is totally insane (and given his background its not beyond the realms of possibility), then one would think this is just big talk for those back home, because it shows a total lack of current stuational awareness and rationality of any type.

[LiberalFox]

Kadyrov is very pro war and has gone public saying Russia shouldn't agree to peace. There are actually people more right-wing than Putin in Russia, one of the reasons why getting rid of him wouldn't necessarily make things better. There are some who believe that what they are fighting in Ukraine is basically all NATO has to offer because they think NATO is sending over all these weapons and foreign troops disguised as volunteers so if they are able to beat that then why make peace? 

[SpacedX]

53 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Unless the man is totally insane (and given his background its not beyond the realms of possibility), then one would think this is just big talk for those back home, because it shows a total lack of current stuational awareness and rationality of any type.

The losses are absolutely appalling. There are discharged servicemen and reservists (60,000) that could bolster ranks. There are also an estimated 134,000 conscripts, but that is unlikely due to poor training and the unpopularity of such a move. Russia is also believed to be deploying 40,000 fighters from Syria where the Kremlin propped up the Assad regime, in addition to more Chechnyan troops. Then there are the private militia such as the Wagner Group who are already on the ground there. It has recently been speculated that Russia is attempting to recruit soldiers from rebel Transnistria but this has not been confirmed. 

 

On the subject of Syria, the General responsible for the indiscriminate bloodbath in Aleppo, Alexandr Dvornikov is likewise set to be redeployed fro the 'Southern District' to orchestrate the renewed offensive in the Donbass region. He may well be given command of of all Russian forces in Ukraine.

[MPH]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Unless the man is totally insane (and given his background its not beyond the realms of possibility), then one would think this is just big talk for those back home, because it shows a total lack of current stuational awareness and rationality of any type.

 

I wonder if it’s also a ploy to stop Zelensky from committing so many troops to the eastern frontline..  if those cities are in danger of being attacked they’ll need more soldiers to ‘defend’ them..

Edited 11 April 2022 by MPH

[fox_favourite]

Ukraine War: Russia warns Sweden and Finland against Nato membership https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503
 

My brain can’t comprehend this way of thinking…Does starting a war in another country make things safer? Seeing people killed, home destroyed and lives ruined make things safer? Threatening other countries makes things safer? Finland and Sweden probably weren’t joining or wanting to until they invaded and made everything unsafe?! The other countries are increasing spending on military because of the invasion!! It just doesn’t make sense. They haven’t joined pre this as they felt there was no need/public opinion wasn’t there…until now.

[MPH]

18 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

Ukraine War: Russia warns Sweden and Finland against Nato membership https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503
 

My brain can’t comprehend this way of thinking…Does starting a war in another country make things safer? Seeing people killed, home destroyed and lives ruined make things safer? Threatening other countries makes things safer? Finland and Sweden probably weren’t joining or wanting to until they invaded and made everything unsafe?! The other countries are increasing spending on military because of the invasion!! It just doesn’t make sense. They haven’t joined pre this as they felt there was no need/public opinion wasn’t there…until now.

 

its  catastrophe after catastrophe for Russia in this war. What were they thinking? If you see.” A Neighbor invading another neighbor, of COURSE They are going to seek protection.  They couldn’t not have botched their tactics any more even if they had tried to..

[Countryfox]

The main event about to start ..  key points ..  have the Russians learnt  from their mistakes .. (easily done by monitoring western media) ..   one general in charge, focus your forces and your attacks, don’t overstretch your supply line, attack enemy supply lines especially with regards to western weaponry, utilise Chechen Syrian and Wagner troops ….  as against ..  Ukraine has also been able to learn Russian tactics and .. perhaps the most important factor ..  have Ukraine received enough western weaponry to give them a fighting chance ..  hopefully kept secret ..  and weapons that they are fully trained to use and have the spare parts and know how to keep in use.   Tense times …. 

[LCFCCHRIS]

1 hour ago, fox_favourite said:

Ukraine War: Russia warns Sweden and Finland against Nato membership https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503
 

My brain can’t comprehend this way of thinking…Does starting a war in another country make things safer? Seeing people killed, home destroyed and lives ruined make things safer? Threatening other countries makes things safer? Finland and Sweden probably weren’t joining or wanting to until they invaded and made everything unsafe?! The other countries are increasing spending on military because of the invasion!! It just doesn’t make sense. They haven’t joined pre this as they felt there was no need/public opinion wasn’t there…until now.

I'm also thinking, is the threat of these countries joining NATO more like a bargaining chip devised by NATO and the E.U? Basically leave Ukraine or even more countries will join instead... Also Russia threatening military action if they join should not be taken seriously. We cannot bow down to these bullies, even at the risk of escalation imo.

Edited 11 April 2022 by LCFCCHRIS

[ian__marshall]

Very powerful feature on ITV News at 10 this evening covering the war crimes committed by Russia near Kyiv. Absolutely shocking footage. If you didn't see it I strongly suggest watching it on catch up although be prepared for some extremely disturbing scenes. 

[Vlad the Fox]

6 hours ago, Countryfox said:

The main event about to start ..  key points ..  have the Russians learnt  from their mistakes .. (easily done by monitoring western media) ..   one general in charge, focus your forces and your attacks, don’t overstretch your supply line, attack enemy supply lines especially with regards to western weaponry, utilise Chechen Syrian and Wagner troops ….  as against ..  Ukraine has also been able to learn Russian tactics and .. perhaps the most important factor ..  have Ukraine received enough western weaponry to give them a fighting chance ..  hopefully kept secret ..  and weapons that they are fully trained to use and have the spare parts and know how to keep in use.   Tense times …. 

Judging things so far it doesn’t look like the russians have learnt anything since WW2.

[st albans fox]

Some chat about a possible use of a chemical agent in Mariupol via drone delivery ……

[Sol thewall Bamba]

After withdrawing (running away) from Kyiv, the furthest the Russians have been able to advance into Ukraine is about 100km or so. Rumoured 20 thousand troops killed to get from Leicester to Sheffield.

[ClaphamFox]

10 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

Very powerful feature on ITV News at 10 this evening covering the war crimes committed by Russia near Kyiv. Absolutely shocking footage. If you didn't see it I strongly suggest watching it on catch up although be prepared for some extremely disturbing scenes. 

Just watched it - absolutely gut-wrenching stuff. I know this is what happens in war, but to see it with your own eyes is deeply, deeply harrowing.

[Countryfox]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Some chat about a possible use of a chemical agent in Mariupol via drone delivery ……

 

That's the really worrying bit ...  Mad Vlad has had his nose put out of joint so might just take his war crimes to a whole new level ...   

[fox_favourite]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Some chat about a possible use of a chemical agent in Mariupol via drone delivery ……

There have also been mentioned that (a chemical weapons specialist BBC feed is the source) it could be due to troops fighting in the industrial areas and just a toxic fumes from there, which is also plausible. That city is a vast industrial city with steel works and other stuff, so could be from that. Have to be careful with information. But it has to be investigated though!!

[Detroit Blues]

You have to remember that one of the talking points from Russia the last few weeks was that the US and Ukraine were developing biological/chemical weapons in Ukraine (linked to Hunter Biden), as a casus belli to justify the "special operation." If it is true that there was a chemical weapons attack in Mariupol, it would not surprise me if it was a false flag to drum up more support within the Russia populace who might begin to question their leadership given how poorly the war has gone.

 

All that said, I agree with @fox_favourite that it is more likely the result of fighting in an industrial complex, or just an outright fabrication. 

 

On another topic, i watched a really good video on youtube by CaspianReport explaining Russia's reasoning for going to war. It frames the war in Ukraine in a large geopolitical context, showing Russia's ambitions to return to a neo-soviet state with influence over its neighbors as a protective buffer, and the need for Russia to take over Ukraine/Moldova/the Baltic states in order to make Russia more geographical defensible.  Just make sure you skip that like 1:30 minute advert at the beginning

 

 

[MPH]

Some extremely concerning content doing the rounds on Twitter… one reported to by an intercepted phone call between a Russian soldier and his wife/ girlfriend  in which she gives him permission to rape Ukranian  women but asks him  to use protection. 
 

I Don’t speak Russian so can’t verify that the subtitles are accurate… but …. 

Edited 12 April 2022 by MPH

[MPH]

I suppose nothing should surprise us about war but still… I’m just lost for words on that one..

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, MPH said:

Some extremely concerning content doing the rounds on Twitter… one reported to by an intercepted phone call between a Russian soldier and his wife/ girlfriend  in which she gives him permission to rape Ukranian  women but asks him  to use protection. 
 

I Don’t speak Russian so can’t verify that the subtitles are accurate… but …. 

My question would be, on the front line, where do you find a condom machine?

Or does she mean an AK47?

Edited 12 April 2022 by Parafox

[leicsmac]

Yeah, rape is a war weapon and almost always has been.

 

It's terrible, of course, but not particularly shocking - just the nature of war itself. Mostly no rules (not when the propaganda is flowing and the guy you trained with is now on the ground with his innards suddenly visible) and not much in the way of honour...only, in rare circumstances, just a terrible necessity.