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Sampson

Ukraine

By Sampson, in General Chat

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Parafox

Parafox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, gerblod said:

As long as Ukrainians are willing to fight and pro-Ukraine countries continue to supply materiel, then this is the best opportunity to rid ourselves of a regime which is truly barbaric in deed, yet, more importantly, in its oppressive thinking and immorality.

Ukraine is fighting a massively larger country with one hand behind its back, while the Putin regime continue to threaten any state which overtly tries to even things up. Russian supply lines and depots and all those other important centres on Russian soil should be subjected to the same treatment as has been meted out. 

Putin, Lavrov and all those other rogues and liars within the ruling circle, had they been tried at the postwar trials at Nuremberg, would have been found guilty of war crimes and hung. As it is they are protected and will never be tried for their crimes.

Putin is attempting to bully every country which is aiding Ukraine. Hitler did the same with many more countries. Had a united front been presented to him he would have backed down and drifted into obscurity. This is an opportunity, not only to help Ukraine, but to alter the way in which countries behave to each other. The hardships we might face, will face, could lead, given the right leadership, to a more equable world.

Key phrase, right there.

I can't think of ANYONE in politics with the wherewithal, experience, skills, inspiration, quality and particularly integrity, to provide decent leadership to lead us to a brighter future, and I include all the western European leaders. 

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gerblod

gerblod

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Key phrase, right there.

I can't think of ANYONE in politics with the wherewithal, experience, skills, inspiration, quality and particularly integrity, to provide decent leadership to lead us to a brighter future, and I include all the western European leaders. 

Yes - agreed. There are a few decent politicians, but very few. I could never have envisaged a situation in this country where mediocre and venal people could form a government with the intent of effecting something resembling a coup d'etat. Brexit was absolutely unnecessary - but the reason wasn't a misguided yet believed in cause - it was done for its own sake - just to see if the people could be fooled. This is the mark of most politicians - to indulge in power and accrue wealth and titles. Nobody decent (with exceptions) wishes to become a politician, because its status is damaged. Only the second rate see politics as something of value.

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turlo

turlo

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

Un fvckin believable ...  wonder what Macron thinks ...   might help placate Putin ..

Being tried as mercenaries despite being enlisted in the Ukrainian Army  - Not sure about Shaun Pinner but Aiden Aslin joined the Ukrainian Army back in 2018 and is married to a Ukrainian. He's been allowed to upload videos on his youtube channel while in prison clearly being forced to read statements regretting his actions and admitting to (unknowingly) shelling civilian areas in Donetsk City. All against international law but doubt there's anything that can be done to put a stop to it.  

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turlo

turlo

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Usually when Brits get sentenced to death overseas for drug smuggling or whatever, there's a reasonable chance that diplomacy might get them off the hook and the sentence commuted to a prison term. I'm not sure whether that applies in this case..:(

Lift all sanctions placed on Russia, stop supplying arms to Ukraine and recognise the independence of Crimea, Kherson, Dombas etc and the death sentences will be reduced to life imprisonment 

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, turlo said:

Being tried as mercenaries despite being enlisted in the Ukrainian Army  - Not sure about Shaun Pinner but Aiden Aslin joined the Ukrainian Army back in 2018 and is married to a Ukrainian. He's been allowed to upload videos on his youtube channel while in prison clearly being forced to read statements regretting his actions and admitting to (unknowingly) shelling civilian areas in Donetsk City. All against international law but doubt there's anything that can be done to put a stop to it.  

Don’t forget EVERYTHING is controlled by Putin so this is just yet another bargaining chip that he will use when required in the future ..  

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ClaphamFox

ClaphamFox

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, turlo said:

Lift all sanctions placed on Russia, stop supplying arms to Ukraine and recognise the independence of Crimea, Kherson, Dombas etc and the death sentences will be reduced to life imprisonment 

Exactly. Literally not a chance any of those will happen. Their best hope is that Russia decides it would be better PR for the world to see them as humane/lenient rather than reinforcing their current image as lawless savages.

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Parafox

Parafox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

Don’t forget EVERYTHING is controlled by Putin so this is just yet another bargaining chip that he will use when required in the future ..  

This. I really can't see them carrying the sentence through but they will have some kind of diplomatic leverage as a result.

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Parafox said:

This. I really can't see them carrying the sentence through but they will have some kind of diplomatic leverage as a result.

 

5 hours ago, MPH said:

They’ll be exchanged for captured Russian soldiers.

Putin will maybe  commute the sentence to a very long prison term for something in return but will not easily give them up basically because he hates the UK so much. More likely he’ll ask for something from someone else to try and divide us .. for example try and swap them for the Russians accused of war crimes ..  he knows that won’t happen but also knows it could create friction. 

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ClaphamFox

ClaphamFox

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Posted

This sheds a little more light on a topic that has been discussed before - the extent to which Russia's invasion of Ukraine was driven by Putin's desperation to secure himself a legacy before he snuffs it (which may be quite soon). Apparently he thinks of himself as a modern-day Peter the Great.

 

https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-compares-invasion-to-peter-the-greats-invasion-at-start-of-great-northern-war-12630973

 

 

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
On 10/06/2022 at 08:50, ClaphamFox said:

This sheds a little more light on a topic that has been discussed before - the extent to which Russia's invasion of Ukraine was driven by Putin's desperation to secure himself a legacy before he snuffs it (which may be quite soon). Apparently he thinks of himself as a modern-day Peter the Great.

 

https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-compares-invasion-to-peter-the-greats-invasion-at-start-of-great-northern-war-12630973

 

 

Thank you for posting that.

 

The situation I think is reminiscent of Nicholas I - the so called 'soldier Tsar' in the wake of the Decembrist Revolt, which was viewed in part as a product of dangerous foreign inspired free-thinking among the young and educated. It fell upon the education minister Count Sergei Uvarov to provide the answer. He proposed 'official nationality' a doctrine that claimed Russia's traditional values needed to be defended against alien nations. The formula was disturbingly familiar... 'Orthodoxy, Autocracy and Nationality'. 

 

Back then, as it is now, the idea of leaning on Russia's role as the last 'true' Orthodox state was nothing new, but after a century of lip service on the idea of progressing beyond tradition and embracing Western nationalism became justification for quite the opposite. 'Europe' was a new source of contamination that Nicholas said was in harmony with neither the character or the feelings of the Russian nation. It was God's will for Russia to be Russia, not a pale copy of western Europe. This was the job of autocracy - undiluted and adulterated by constitutionalism. Rigid central power in the name of the common interest and in the pursuit of national unity and a single loyalty, all subjects of the Tsar should embrace a single faith and values. The irony was, that like Putin today, the Tsar who has largely gone down in history as epitome of the unreasoning martinet, the humourless defender of a despotic and dying order, economically thrived upon western relations and commerce. 

 

Karl Marx wrote that war 'puts a nation to the test'. Just as exposure to atmosphere reduces all mummies to dissolution and dust, so war passes supreme judgement upon social systems that have 'outlived their vitality'. Again, in terms of the irony of Putin's 'special military operation', I think the parallels are clear. 

 

 

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David Hankey

David Hankey

Posted
Posted

I don't know why we give Lavrov air time. Both him and Putin are liars, that has been proved.

 

To suggest all the carnage Russia has inflicted on Ukraine is not a war or an invasion but just a "military manoeuvre" is absolutely staggering.

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yorkie1999

yorkie1999

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61816337.amp

 

Interesting about how much has been sent thus far in terms of lethal aid 

Drones are the future, a million drones and kids sat at home flying them and dropping bombs on the enemy. I was reading that since 2014, some Ukraine IT company had developed a small cheap, $20,000,  drone capable of dropping two 2.5kg bombs that can destroy a tank, they can fly for 4 hours and have thermal imaging so they can spot the enemy at night, compare that with a $1.5 million military drone that can does the same job.

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Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

They’ve now lost more than a King Power Stadium’s worth of troops. 

 

 

 

I think we need to get up to at least a full Wembley before mad vlad considers cutting his losses ...  

 

 

Edited by Countryfox
Bad gramma !!
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Jattdogg

Jattdogg

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1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

They’ve now lost more than a King Power Stadium’s worth of troops. 

 

If true, such a sad waste of precious life on both sides no matter what. 

 

Shit needs to end for the better of everyone (especially ukraine). Putin can do one.

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