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Sampson

Ukraine

By Sampson, in General Chat

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Countryfox said:


Oh no ! ..  don’t mention that cus if Leicester Mac sees it  it’ll set him off and he’ll ..   

 

Too late   ..   

 

:D Well, when I state something that is inaccurate and/or unsolicited (that is, not addressing an earlier point or answering a question), do feel free to pull me up on it.

 

Until then, I will continue to give my take how it is and hopefully in an informative fashion, as hyperbolic as you believe it might be.

 

18 minutes ago, Captain... said:

This is where annexing the Donbas region turns Ukraine advances reclaiming their land as threatening the "continuity of their country" in the mad eyes of Putin.

That is the possibility, yes.

 

It's a very slim one, but the consequences are so dire it has to be considered and not dismissed out of hand.

 

12 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

That's my point, if an army invaded a country,  it's already too late to use nuclear weapons as a deterent.

 

6 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:


Having the capacity to demolish a country is the deterrent.

And having the power to declare the "game" over, all players losers, and destroy the board, yes. That's what Mutually Assured Destruction is all about.

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z-layrex

z-layrex

Posted
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Posted
2 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

Interesting comments from Lavrov. Looks like Russia's will to prolong the war is fading. Now might be the time to strike an agreement. I despise everything that Putin has done to Ukraine and can only imagine the anger that Ukrainians now feel towards Russia, however a resolution needs to be found and I think all parties involved in this conflict on both sides need to be realistic in their expectations. Could a deal be struck whereby Russia's annexation of the captured regions is internationally recognised in exchange for a ceasefire and agreement that the remainder of Ukraine will become a Nato member? 

 

That way Putin gets to claim he's denazified these Pro-Russia regions (which admittedly is BS), and Ukraine gets the full protection of the Nato allies moving forward should Russia decide downstream it wants to advance its territory boundaries further. 

 

I don't think Zelensky would settle for this (and rightly so on a purely personal level) but I think Nato need to work really hard on selling the idea as without some concessions this will continue for many years (possibly decades) and there will eventually come a point where Ukraine either concedes more ground, is left with a decimated mess of a country, or this conflict becomes too costly for its allies. 

You sound like Elon Musk. Russia have invaded a sovereign nation, the war ends when they get the **** out of Ukraine. There is no other acceptable outcome.

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st albans fox

st albans fox

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

You sound like Elon Musk. Russia have invaded a sovereign nation, the war ends when they get the **** out of Ukraine. There is no other acceptable outcome.

They annexed crimea approx 8 years ago - the west's response was pretty 'meh'

 

i think any settlement will struggle to remove russian control of crimea. a demilitarized zone in the donbas could be a route out in this region - putin simply cannot accept this ending and being worse off than he was in feb.  he signs a political suicide note if he does and he wont do that. 

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z-layrex

z-layrex

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

They annexed crimea approx 8 years ago - the west's response was pretty 'meh'

 

i think any settlement will struggle to remove russian control of crimea. a demilitarized zone in the donbas could be a route out in this region - putin simply cannot accept this ending and being worse off than he was in feb.  he signs a political suicide note if he does and he wont do that. 

The west's response was not 'meh'. Have you seen the difference between Ukraine's armed forces in 2014 to now? That's down to NATO.

Edited by z-layrex
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st albans fox

st albans fox

Posted
Posted
Just now, z-layrex said:

The west's response was not 'meh'. Have you seen the difference between Ukraine's armed forces in 2014 to now? That's down to NATO.

I meant in respect of telling putin to leave and that it wasn’t acceptable. The west have indeed supplied a lot of training to ukraine over the period.  Diplomatically the response has been ‘meh’ and the additional ukraine armed forces strength wasn’t significant enough to dissuade putin. 


if we’d stood up to him over crimea then he wouldn’t have embarked on this war. 

 

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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/11/elon-musk-had-direct-talks-putin-tweeting-pro-russia-peace-plan/

 

What is Musk doing? Very strange behaviour.

He could be either an idiot with an ego bigger than his BFR rockets, or trying to bother the US government into blocking his Twitter purchase, having attempted it in the first place for either laughs or to bluff them into changing their policies, then getting called on it, forced to continue in the courts and now desperately trying to find a way out.

 

Either possibility is believable.

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Parafox

Parafox

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/10/11/elon-musk-had-direct-talks-putin-tweeting-pro-russia-peace-plan/

 

What is Musk doing? Very strange behaviour.

He strikes me as an egotist and feels all powerful, bordering on maybe, being a psychopath?

 

I don't think the man is entirely stable.

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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Parafox said:

He strikes me as an egotist and feels all powerful, bordering on maybe, being a psychopath?

 

I don't think the man is entirely stable.

He comes across as having a personality disorder, possibly a sociopath, but a psychopath is something different and I don’t see that in him.

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Parafox

Parafox

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dunge said:

He comes across as having a personality disorder, possibly a sociopath, but a psychopath is something different and I don’t see that in him.

Sociopath is actually what I meant to say :facepalm:

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Dunge said:

He comes across as having a personality disorder, possibly a sociopath, but a psychopath is something different and I don’t see that in him.

 

15 hours ago, Parafox said:

Sociopath is actually what I meant to say :facepalm:

 

There's no difference between a psychopath and a sociopath they're synonyms used interchangeably depending on the academic you're reading. 

 

Neither is a recognised mental illness or personality disorder and any distinction between the two is an anachronism. 

 

Antisocial Personality Disorder is the closest you'll come but it doesn't overlap entirely with Robert Hare's classification of a psychopath which is the most widely accepted internationally. Its possible to "pass" (or fail, depending on your perspective) a test using the Bob Hare Psychopathy Checklist and not meet the diagnostic Criteria for APD and visa versa. 

 

These are the characteristics associated with psychopathy as per Hare:

 

Quote
  • Item 1: Glibness/superficial charm
  • Item 2: Grandiose sense of self-worth
  • Item 3: Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
  • Item 4: Pathological lying
  • Item 5: Conning/manipulative
  • Item 6: Lack of remorse or guilt
  • Item 7: Shallow affect
  • Item 8: Callous/lack of empathy
  • Item 9: Parasitic lifestyle
  • Item 10: Poor behavioral controls
  • Item 11: Promiscuous sexual behavior
  • Item 12: Early behavior problems
  • Item 13: Lack of realistic long-term goals
  • Item 14: Impulsivity
  • Item 15: Irresponsibility
  • Item 16: Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  • Item 17: Many short-term marital relationships
  • Item 18: Juvenile delinquency
  • Item 19: Revocation of conditional release
  • Item 20: Criminal versatility

The presence of each is measured on a scale of 0 to 2 where 1 is a partial match and 2 is a significant one. A person scoring 30 or above out of a maximum score of 40 would be considered a psychopath by Hare's criteria. But, again, psychopathy is not itself a recognised diagnosable condition. 

 

That fun, have fun using the above to evaluate Musk, Putin, Trump, Brendan Rodgers and literally everyone you don't like at your work at your own leisure. 

 

 

The presence of each is measured on a scale of 0 to 2 where 1 is a partial match and 2 is a significant one. A person scoring 30 or above out of a maximum score of 40 would be considered a psychopath by Hare's criteria. But, again, psychopathy is not itself a recognised diagnosable condition. 

 

That said, have fun using the above to evaluate Musk, Putin, Trump, Brendan Rodgers and literally everyone you don't like at your work at your own leisure. 

 

Edited by Finnegan
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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

There's no difference between a psychopath and a sociopath they're synonyms used interchangeably depending on the academic you're reading. 

 

Neither is a recognised mental illness or personality disorder and any distinction between the two is an anachronism. 

 

Antisocial Personality Disorder is the closest you'll come but it doesn't overlap entirely with Robert Hare's classification of a psychopath which is the most widely accepted internationally. Its possible to "pass" (or fail, depending on your perspective) a test using the Bob Hare Psychopathy Checklist and not meet the diagnostic Criteria for APD and visa versa. 

 

These are the characteristics associated with psychopathy as per Hare:

 

 

The presence of each is measured on a scale of 0 to 2 where 1 is a partial match and 2 is a significant one. A person scoring 30 or above out of a maximum score of 40 would be considered a psychopath by Hare's criteria. But, again, psychopathy is not itself a recognised diagnosable condition. 

 

That said, have fun using the above to evaluate Musk, Putin, Trump, Brendan Rodgers and literally everyone you don't like at your work at your own leisure. 

 

Fair enough. I was going on the basis of:

- Doesn’t care when bad things happen to people = sociopath

- Does care when bad things happen to people but actively enjoys it = psychopath

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Fair enough. I was going on the basis of:

- Doesn’t care when bad things happen to people = sociopath

- Does care when bad things happen to people but actively enjoys it = psychopath

 

Yeah neither of those are necessarily accurate to be honest (as you can more of less establish from the criteria listed above.)

 

Edited by Finnegan
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Blarmy

Blarmy

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

There's no difference between a psychopath and a sociopath they're synonyms used interchangeably depending on the academic you're reading. 

 

Neither is a recognised mental illness or personality disorder and any distinction between the two is an anachronism. 

 

Antisocial Personality Disorder is the closest you'll come but it doesn't overlap entirely with Robert Hare's classification of a psychopath which is the most widely accepted internationally. Its possible to "pass" (or fail, depending on your perspective) a test using the Bob Hare Psychopathy Checklist and not meet the diagnostic Criteria for APD and visa versa. 

 

These are the characteristics associated with psychopathy as per Hare:

 

 

The presence of each is measured on a scale of 0 to 2 where 1 is a partial match and 2 is a significant one. A person scoring 30 or above out of a maximum score of 40 would be considered a psychopath by Hare's criteria. But, again, psychopathy is not itself a recognised diagnosable condition. 

 

That said, have fun using the above to evaluate Musk, Putin, Trump, Brendan Rodgers and literally everyone you don't like at your work at your own leisure. 

 

Sounds like my ex. 

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yorkie1999

yorkie1999

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Parafox said:

The world, if he is right, is going to be a much worse place to live, in particular western and eastern Europe.

I think the problem for ukraine, and ultimately us, is that russia cannot be defeated because they will always have the weapons to end it and have the final say. Right now their troops, and therfore Putin, are being backed into a corner and if the ukrainians break through in the north of the donbas region and then start to work south, there is no escape for the russian troops. As the guy says, 50000 dead troops is nothing for a country that wouldn't consider walking away with less than half a million dead.

https://deepstatemap.live/en#6.75/49.011/33.973

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