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Sampson

Ukraine

By Sampson, in General Chat

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MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Is there an opposition party as such? One that is actually a viable alternative and more moderate than Putin.


 

the fastest growing political party in Russia is the communist party of which Putin is not a part of. I’m unaware of any political party that’s more moderate than him. Whilst he’s not officially their leader and runs as an independent Putin represents the United Russia in all but name. It’s a political party that would be considered centrist with a slight lean to the right.  There’s some far right nut jobs and some left wing nut jobs within Russian politics.  Those that are clamped down upon are those who are vociferous in their criticism of United Russia “, who polled more than 75% of the votes at the last election.

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fox_up_north

fox_up_north

Posted
Posted

My understanding - from people who have worked in Russia - is that, among the political class, there are some really entrenched views.

 

To think that this is all down to Putin alone is naive, sadly. 

 

The best result is for Russia to come to its senses, sit down at the table and cooperate with everyone else. This benefits everyone through shared work and knowledge.

 

But the likely result is far less pleasant

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turlo

turlo

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63573387

 

Also, Russian's to withdraw from Kherson...

Looks like the patient strangulation strategy paid off and hopefully saves a lot of lives in the process. A full on Mariupol type assault would've been very costly to both sides, the remaining civilians and the destruction of the city itself. The issue now is the Russian forces can shell the shit out of Kherson from the other side of the River after blowing all the main bridges .I suppose they can be picked off with the longer range artillery & HIMARS that Ukrainian forces have to play with

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LCFCCHRIS

LCFCCHRIS

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

As good as this is, I hope it’s not a trap of some sorts. 

Ukraine with the help of the US , UK and other countries' intelligence will be all over this probability. There's a big chance Kherson is now laiden with mines and traps however, and it may result it a very slow and careful advance into the city. 

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WigstonWanderer

WigstonWanderer

Posted
Posted

As someone who lacks any expertise on this conflict, I was nevertheless wondering if there is any scope for a negotiated settlement involving some concession of Ukrainian territory, such as Crimea, and possibly other occupied areas, perhaps along the lines of natural boundaries such as rivers, with the proviso that the remainder of Ukraine immediately joins NATO.

 

As distasteful as it would be for Putin to gain anything through aggression, it may at least prevent a huge amount of future bloodshed, whilst giving Ukrainians back a normal life. This solution would appear to address the main Ukrainian concern regarding a settlement, that Russia would merely use a peaceful period to regroup, rearm and subsequently re-invade.

 

I’d be interested in the views of more seasoned observers. Perhaps I’m being too naive.

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Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

As someone who lacks any expertise on this conflict, I was nevertheless wondering if there is any scope for a negotiated settlement involving some concession of Ukrainian territory, such as Crimea, and possibly other occupied areas, perhaps along the lines of natural boundaries such as rivers, with the proviso that the remainder of Ukraine immediately joins NATO.

 

As distasteful as it would be for Putin to gain anything through aggression, it may at least prevent a huge amount of future bloodshed, whilst giving Ukrainians back a normal life. This solution would appear to address the main Ukrainian concern regarding a settlement, that Russia would merely use a peaceful period to regroup, rearm and subsequently re-invade.

 

I’d be interested in the views of more seasoned observers. Perhaps I’m being too naive.

The only concession that would be palatable would be free and fair elections in the Crimea and Donbas regions overseen by the UN and only available to anyone who was living in those regions prior to 2022 in the case of the Donbas and 2013 for Crimea.

 

If there is a genuine case for self determination and the people of those regions genuinely desire Russian rule then it needs to be proved legitimately and not taken by force.

 

I do think it's too far gone now for these types of negotiations, if anyone should be ceding territory and paying reparations for this war it should be Russia. Whatever valid claim they might have had to these regions are nullified by such blatant and wanton aggression.

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WigstonWanderer

WigstonWanderer

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The only concession that would be palatable would be free and fair elections in the Crimea and Donbas regions overseen by the UN and only available to anyone who was living in those regions prior to 2022 in the case of the Donbas and 2013 for Crimea.

 

If there is a genuine case for self determination and the people of those regions genuinely desire Russian rule then it needs to be proved legitimately and not taken by force.

 

I do think it's too far gone now for these types of negotiations, if anyone should be ceding territory and paying reparations for this war it should be Russia. Whatever valid claim they might have had to these regions are nullified by such blatant and wanton aggression.

 

27 minutes ago, Daggers said:

7F2C55AA-C1C2-4FFF-BE4D-78175ECAF607.gif

I’d be delighted if Ukraine can kick Russia out of its territory altogether, but is this really very likely?

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Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

 

I’d be delighted if Ukraine can kick Russia out of its territory altogether, but is this really very likely?

 

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

 

I’d be delighted if Ukraine can kick Russia out of its territory altogether, but is this really very likely?

They could push them back but I don't know if they would be able to maintain a permanent defence along a very long border.

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WigstonWanderer

WigstonWanderer

Posted
Posted

I’ve watched a few videos from this YouTuber on the Ukrainian war. Very positive commentary from the Ukrainian perspective, and quite plausible. A bit wary about placing too much credibility in a YouTuber called Joe Blogs though. Can’t find any other information on him so don’t know his academic credentials.

 

 

 

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MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted
On 10/11/2022 at 05:58, Captain... said:

 

They could push them back but I don't know if they would be able to maintain a permanent defence along a very long border.


 

i suspect any border control

be done by drones and artillery 

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Ginger_Filbert

Ginger_Filbert

Posted
Posted (edited)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11417563/Putin-offered-surrender-terms-West-loses-control-Kherson.html
 

I know it’s from the Mail but interesting. 
 

I know the west might lean on Ukraine to accept terms without takin back Crimea but I can’t see th being too accepting of that after all the loss and whilst having such momentum.  

Edited by Ginger_Filbert
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MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11417563/Putin-offered-surrender-terms-West-loses-control-Kherson.html
 

I know it’s from the Mail but interesting. 
 

I know the west might mean on Ukraine to accept terms without takin back Crimea but I can’t see they being too accepting of that after all the loss and whilst having such momentum.  


 

I would literally dance with Joy if that happened. I’d be highly suspicious if Putin agrees to it though.

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MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11417563/Putin-offered-surrender-terms-West-loses-control-Kherson.html
 

I know it’s from the Mail but interesting. 
 

I know the west might mean on Ukraine to accept terms without takin back Crimea but I can’t see they being too accepting of that after all the loss and whilst having such momentum.  


 

I would literally dance with Joy if that happened. I’d be highly suspicious if Putin agrees to it though.

 

 

He’s callous enough to fire off a small nuke whilst all the soldiers are dancing in the street with the residents.

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Bryn

Bryn

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, MPH said:


 

I would literally dance with Joy if that happened. I’d be highly suspicious if Putin agrees to it though.

 

 

He’s callous enough to fire off a small nuke whilst all the soldiers are dancing in the street with the residents.


Reckon the Yanks know that and think this is actuallly probably the way you get rid of Putin. You take them off a war footing, cater to his wider circle and isolate him. They scrutinise his actions and get rid him. Probably still run Russia into the ground and line their pockets but at least leave other countries alone.

 

Think that interpretation explains why Ukraine might go for it, other than the obvious that it brings back peace.

Edited by Bryn
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fox_up_north

fox_up_north

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

If peace was to be agreed I really hope we don’t turn the gas pipes back on overnight and all is forgiven, they should have sanctions until they pay a rebuilding compensation package. 

Absolutely. We should also use this as a learning exercise for our own energy security. 

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Parafox

Parafox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11417563/Putin-offered-surrender-terms-West-loses-control-Kherson.html
 

I know it’s from the Mail but interesting. 
 

I know the west might lean on Ukraine to accept terms without takin back Crimea but I can’t see th being too accepting of that after all the loss and whilst having such momentum.  

It's the word "surrender" that bothers me a bit. A word that might poke Putin's ego.

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WigstonWanderer

WigstonWanderer

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11417563/Putin-offered-surrender-terms-West-loses-control-Kherson.html
 

I know it’s from the Mail but interesting. 
 

I know the west might lean on Ukraine to accept terms without takin back Crimea but I can’t see th being too accepting of that after all the loss and whilst having such momentum.  

Sounds like a plan :fc:

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