leicsmac Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 10 minutes ago, Captain... said: Did Zelensky actually say it was a Russian missile? This incident was a direct result of Russian escalating things, even if it was an air defence missile. Missiles only landed in neighbouring countries because Russia is indiscriminately bombing large swathes of Ukraine. The inference would be obvious - if it wasn't Russian, it would have to be Ukrainian, and there's no way he could say that. Agreed that Russia launching their missiles is the reason the thing ended up in Poland in the first place, but sticking to the known facts rather than rhetoric would help everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 9 minutes ago, Captain... said: Did Zelensky actually say it was a Russian missile? This incident was a direct result of Russian escalating things, even if it was an air defence missile. Missiles only landed in neighbouring countries because Russia is indiscriminately bombing large swathes of Ukraine. 100%. Even if it was stray and zelensky blamed russia ultimately it is because of russias war against ukraine that this happened. I am guessing ukraine will feel terrible about it if it was them. Not an easy thing to have to admit. Either way russia should not get a free pass here. They knew ukraine would fightback and shouldn't be striking cities or areas so close to other countries. They know exactly what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_up_north Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 One would suspect Poland is somewhat sympathetic to Ukraine's situation but these things must be evidence based. It is very dangerous to fling accusations unnecessarily. But I also appreciate Poland wanting to bolster their border for protection and who can blame them? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 34 minutes ago, Captain... said: Did Zelensky actually say it was a Russian missile? This incident was a direct result of Russian escalating things, even if it was an air defence missile. Missiles only landed in neighbouring countries because Russia is indiscriminately bombing large swathes of Ukraine. Yes he did, not only that but the Ukrainian foreign minister said that anyone saying otherwise was peddling ‘Kremlin conspiracy theories’. It is of course Russia’s fault in the first place but insinuating what they did is playing a very very dangerous game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 If it had been the Russians it would have been a terrible shot, imagine missing a whole country, a big one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 3 hours ago, Lionator said: Yes he did, not only that but the Ukrainian foreign minister said that anyone saying otherwise was peddling ‘Kremlin conspiracy theories’. It is of course Russia’s fault in the first place but insinuating what they did is playing a very very dangerous game. From the very start of this, Russia and Ukraine have at times been reliant on cool heads in NATO, and specifically the White House. For Ukraine it’s inconvenient but understandable given that they’re fighting for their very survival. Russia should not feel proud about it, and I get the impression China don’t think much of them for it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_favourite Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 interesting take on it. But this was done this morning before investigations. But im impressed with the cool heads at NATO and Poland - this could have gone a lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 1 hour ago, fox_favourite said: interesting take on it. But this was done this morning before investigations. But im impressed with the cool heads at NATO and Poland - this could have gone a lot worse. As I said previously, intentional or accident, this as an event was not going to cause WW3. NATO will only enter the conflict when the need for doing so outweighs the need for not doing that. That would pretty much only be the case if there was a sustained, strategic invasion by Russia on a NATO country, which simply won’t happen for a whole myriad of reasons (or else Putin would’ve done it by now). The hysteria of social media and the wider media has been embarrassing and outright dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 46 minutes ago, Lionator said: As I said previously, intentional or accident, this as an event was not going to cause WW3. NATO will only enter the conflict when the need for doing so outweighs the need for not doing that. That would pretty much only be the case if there was a sustained, strategic invasion by Russia on a NATO country, which simply won’t happen for a whole myriad of reasons (or else Putin would’ve done it by now). The hysteria of social media and the wider media has been embarrassing and outright dangerous. NATO won't be mobilised over a single missile into a farm. Just because Biden has said it's not Russian I wouldn't believe that as much as I wouldn't believe Putin. I doubt the USA is that clear on the facts as yet and I doubt the public will ever be told what really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 40 minutes ago, kenny said: NATO won't be mobilised over a single missile into a farm. Just because Biden has said it's not Russian I wouldn't believe that as much as I wouldn't believe Putin. I doubt the USA is that clear on the facts as yet and I doubt the public will ever be told what really happened. I don’t see why Biden would lie about what happened. There’s literally no reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 13 minutes ago, Lionator said: I don’t see why Biden would lie about what happened. There’s literally no reason for it. Because if it was fired by Russia he has no interest in escalation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turlo Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 Zelensky aint having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernpark Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 This could be a catalyst for Zelensky and Putin to return to the negotiating table? The Ukrainian may upset a few if he continues against the official narrative. He spoke about the prospect of negotiations earlier and was far less dismissive than previously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 1 hour ago, kenny said: Because if it was fired by Russia he has no interest in escalation. It was pretty obvious even from the Russian reaction that it wasn’t them when you compare it to other things which they ‘denied’ in the past. So many people look for conspiracy when the truth is also the most obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_favourite Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 1 hour ago, turlo said: Zelensky aint having it. Can you blame him? He has got a fair point that he wants to see the evidence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 33 minutes ago, Lionator said: It was pretty obvious even from the Russian reaction that it wasn’t them when you compare it to other things which they ‘denied’ in the past. So many people look for conspiracy when the truth is also the most obvious. I don't know who fired it. I'm not sure there is a conspiracy. The game of propaganda is being played by all parties to their own ends including the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 7 hours ago, Spiritwalker said: If it had been the Russians it would have been a terrible shot, imagine missing a whole country, a big one as well. Imagine trying to shoot down a missile coming from northeast and hitting a farm west of where you’re shooting from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted 16 November 2022 Share Posted 16 November 2022 1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said: Imagine trying to shoot down a missile coming from northeast and hitting a farm west of where you’re shooting from Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 24 November 2022 Share Posted 24 November 2022 A beautiful sight…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 25 November 2022 Share Posted 25 November 2022 Quite disgusting how they are destroying Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. Complete vandalism in a war with no purpose other than Putin’s ego, a gangster state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_favourite Posted 25 November 2022 Share Posted 25 November 2022 Did anyone see the sledge hammer that the head of the Wagner group (I think) sent the EU parliament? Just sickening. Worlds gone completely mad. 2022 is definitely a close and don’t save changes year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 November 2022 Share Posted 25 November 2022 18 minutes ago, fox_favourite said: Did anyone see the sledge hammer that the head of the Wagner group (I think) sent the EU parliament? Just sickening. Worlds gone completely mad. 2022 is definitely a close and don’t save changes year. Tbh I think the entire time period from our Prem win onward broke something fundamental in the human space time continuum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 25 November 2022 Share Posted 25 November 2022 2 hours ago, fox_favourite said: Did anyone see the sledge hammer that the head of the Wagner group (I think) sent the EU parliament? Just sickening. Worlds gone completely mad. 2022 is definitely a close and don’t save changes year. I hadn't seen that, just read about it now. https://metro.co.uk/2022/11/24/vladimir-putins-crony-and-wagner-boss-sends-bloodied-sledgehammer-to-eu-17820439/ It feels like this world is seriously messed up at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 November 2022 Share Posted 25 November 2022 4 minutes ago, Captain... said: I hadn't seen that, just read about it now. https://metro.co.uk/2022/11/24/vladimir-putins-crony-and-wagner-boss-sends-bloodied-sledgehammer-to-eu-17820439/ It feels like this world is seriously messed up at the minute. What was the old saying... "Civilisation is only three missed meals from barbarism"? Just goes to show how important progressing as a species, and taming the inner ape as a result, is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 25 November 2022 Share Posted 25 November 2022 15 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said: Quite disgusting how they are destroying Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. Complete vandalism in a war with no purpose other than Putin’s ego, a gangster state. and yet they originally claimed that they wanted to de-nazify Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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