Cost of living crisis.

[Bordersfox]

7 hours ago, gerblod said:

In general, the English and Welsh population have been royally shafted by their own government, the banking fraternity and the entrepreneurial classes.

Those of us who grew up in the era where the Attlee government had instigated and enacted the firm basis of nationalised services and the Welfare State had the best of times - now we're seeing the worst of times.

Take a single instance of mine - I recently moved into a flat. I was intent on finding out what I was paying for services. The electricity supplier, E.ON Next, had set up a Direct Debit of £110 pm. It seemed exorbitant to me, especially as I was in credit of £154. So I trawled through the bills and established just how much I'd been using and applied their latest (subsidy free) tariffs to them. Before I'd finalised the spreadsheet, I received a mail stating that they needed to change the DD to £176pm. My calculations showed that I was using around £70 worth a month.

Everyone who has a tight budget doesn't need a middleman (which is all E.ON and their competitors are) sequestering chunks of their essential funds to keep for their own lucrative investment. We all know what's going on - they're scamming us and it's allowed by those who have the power to stop it.

Same with private renting landlords. I stopped watching watching 'Homes Under The Hammer' when I realised that the majority of those buying the properties were intent on building a 'portfolio' of properties. The start up might be difficult, but once the ball is rolling it's more and more easy to own scores (and more) of these oversubscribed places. The rot started with Thatcher selling off council homes and failing (?) to build more.

Now renters are passing on mortgage increases to their tenants.

The entrepreneurs rarely suffer while essential workers struggle. When people are removing their own teeth because they cannot find an NHS dentist it's an indication of how far that initial Welfare State has been eroded.

There are too many instances of this national malaise of inequality to enumerate.

I think of how Corbyn was vilified and lampooned for his apparently crackpot ideas. But I don't see anyone currently in power rushing to stop the inexorable greed of those organisations who have control of what we have essential need of..whether it be a roof over our head, heat for our homes or food for our bellies. Brave New World indeed.

As others have stated, well said sir. On the Corbyn thing I think it tells us precisely where we are as a country. Forget the devisive nature of the man for a moment - his policies were not really that radical when compared to much of Western Europe.  There would have been, at best, a slight rebalancing of things.  I think there was more than one poll anonymising his policies and, in that situation, a majority of people agreed with them.  

 

Any politician in the UK that attempts to disrupt the upper crust's current comfortable status quo will be demonised in the media.  Think Milliband (that communist radical!) and his bacon sarnie. Yet Johnson, a serial liar, a scoundrel and a morally bankrupt 'filthy peice of toerag' (cheers Doris) has been lionised.  

 

Tony Benn said that Thatcher always considered her greatest success the creation of new Labour, i.e. a huge general lurch to the right in this country's politics, feeding the agenda of the very wealthy few and the vast majority of those controlling our media.  A one nation Conservative of the 60s would have very little in common with the chancers and spivs of the modern Conservative Party.  Of which for balance there are also plenty in the Labour party.  

[fox_up_north]

I generally feel that there was much more common ground between people up until about the 80s. There have been studies that have shown the baby boomers and children of war parents benefitted most in society, as a general rule, but they were also the ones who made such drastic changes.

 

Consider that in the 1900s we had the People's Budget, which brought in the basic ideas for National Insurance and pensions. Yet, a hundred years later, we have a group who seem hellbent on hoarding all that wealth.

 

I've no kids and earn a decent, if not spectacular wage but I couldn't really want for all that much more. It's greed, pure and simple, which seemed to be massively spurred on by the flip to financial services in the 80s.

[weller54]

Was in South Devon last week... 

Kingsbridge Fish and chip shop.. 2 pieces of Cod and 1 portion of medium chips... £24.20!!!!!!

 

[Foxdiamond]

2 hours ago, Bordersfox said:

As others have stated, well said sir. On the Corbyn thing I think it tells us precisely where we are as a country. Forget the devisive nature of the man for a moment - his policies were not really that radical when compared to much of Western Europe.  There would have been, at best, a slight rebalancing of things.  I think there was more than one poll anonymising his policies and, in that situation, a majority of people agreed with them.  

 

Any politician in the UK that attempts to disrupt the upper crust's current comfortable status quo will be demonised in the media.  Think Milliband (that communist radical!) and his bacon sarnie. Yet Johnson, a serial liar, a scoundrel and a morally bankrupt 'filthy peice of toerag' (cheers Doris) has been lionised.  

 

Tony Benn said that Thatcher always considered her greatest success the creation of new Labour, i.e. a huge general lurch to the right in this country's politics, feeding the agenda of the very wealthy few and the vast majority of those controlling our media.  A one nation Conservative of the 60s would have very little in common with the chancers and spivs of the modern Conservative Party.  Of which for balance there are also plenty in the Labour party.  

The demise of the one nation wing of the Tories is a sad reflection of how things have got steadily more unequal since Thatcher. We need a radical change but too many in our country will be influenced still by the right wing rags or simply think all politicians are the same.

[Bordersfox]

1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said:

The demise of the one nation wing of the Tories is a sad reflection of how things have got steadily more unequal since Thatcher. We need a radical change but too many in our country will be influenced still by the right wing rags or simply think all politicians are the same.

False equivocation, a great friend to the Tories.  

[ozleicester]

Writers and actors striking on the US... the studio bosses say they cant afford to increase pay...

[fox_up_north]

It's an industry where all but the top get treated like crap. It's something people will put up with if they feel they're "following a dream" while still making enough to put food on the table, but when that isn't possible, you can find a talent drain very quickly. 

[ozleicester]

Just now, fox_up_north said:

It's an industry where all but the top get treated like crap. It's something people will put up with if they feel they're "following a dream" while still making enough to put food on the table, but when that isn't possible, you can find a talent drain very quickly. 

This is ALL of current society

[gerblod]

On 15/07/2023 at 02:54, dsr-burnley said:

To be fair, we don't really want entrepreneurs to suffer.  It's an interesting idea that commercial businesses should close so that all their employees can do something else, such as becoming essential workers, but if we all work for the government, who's going to pay the tax to pay our wages?

My use of the word 'entrepreneur' was clumsy. Entrepreneurs are valuable in providing commodities to a free-market - whether those commodities are necessary or valuable is be debatable.

The entrepreneurs who jumped on the Covid gravy train were leeches on/off the State. Those people coming up with ideas, for examples, that  reduce energy consumption and waste are adding to the general good of society.

I'm no fan of command economies either, although, in optimum situations, they can reduce the negative effects of consumption for consumption's sake - hard to think of any example though which haven't left individual and group aspirations thwarted.

The huge problem is uncontrolled big business. With only the shareholders' dividends as a measure of success they are an ill which only becomes more grasping. Governments are either in cahoots or running scared of them - instead of seeking to counterbalance their negative effects.

[gerblod]

On 15/07/2023 at 09:24, deep blue said:

I second that.  Gerblod's post is spot on.

 

One point in particular - it just doesn't make sense for any essential public infrastructure in the country to be in private hands.  The overwhelmingly Tory press will counter such an idea by using the "commie" and "financially unsound" smears and this seems to work with a substantial part of the populace, as shown by the voting patterns over the years.

 

And yet it's not at all a political mantra but pure common sense that you keep in public and national control essential infrastructure and services.  That's surely borne out by our current dilemmas on so many fronts.

balance is key in any society.

[Samilktray]

£1.50 for 6 choc ices. Back in the day you’d get about 28 choc ices for a quid. Just disgusting and yet another sign of the sorry state of this country we live in 

[Daggers]

24% increase in shoplifting

 

 

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

24% increase in shoplifting

 

 

Are we attributing this to the desperation some of the population are feeling, or the increased numbers of general cvnts in the UK, or a combination of both? 

 

I've been incredibly hard up at times when I lived in the UK,  but never resorted to shoplifting. I'm not sure how desperate I would have had to be, maybe if I'd ever reached the point of being unable to feed my children,  which thankfully I didn't but maybe a larger number of the population are now at that point. 

 

I do think there seems to be a segment of society in the UK who just don't seem to give a shit about anyone other than themselves, and who seem to have no respect for wider society as a whole. But then are they the creators of the shoplifting situation, or the product of a failed society? 

 

@leicsmac I did warn you when you first mentioned it, and Christ knows why you've chosen the UK to move to, I can only imagine it must be for pretty strong personal reasons, otherwise there are hundreds of better places you could choose. 

 

 

 

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

2 hours ago, Daggers said:

24% increase in shoplifting

 

 

I'm amazed it's only gone up by that amount

[Bordersfox]

2 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

Are we attributing this to the desperation some of the population are feeling, or the increased numbers of general cvnts in the UK, or a combination of both? 

 

I've been incredibly hard up at times when I lived in the UK,  but never resorted to shoplifting. I'm not sure how desperate I would have had to be, maybe if I'd ever reached the point of being unable to feed my children,  which thankfully I didn't but maybe a larger number of the population are now at that point. 

 

I do think there seems to be a segment of society in the UK who just don't seem to give a shit about anyone other than themselves, and who seem to have no respect for wider society as a whole. But then are they the creators of the shoplifting situation, or the product of a failed society? 

 

@leicsmac I did warn you when you first mentioned it, and Christ knows why you've chosen the UK to move to, I can only imagine it must be for pretty strong personal reasons, otherwise there are hundreds of better places you could choose. 

 

 

 

 

You raise some very interesting points Debs.

 

I think my response here is a Corbyn government would have solved all such societal issues and right now we'd be living in a Socialist utopia and, of course, there would be no crime 

 

I am taking the piss, of course, before anyone is triggered. 

 

More seriously whilst studying part-time many, many moons ago I worked, also part-time, for the Probation Service courts team based at the Mags court in Pocklingtons Walk. 

 

The team obviously dealt with a lot of petty crime. And the recurring theme was desperation and circumstance.  Yeah, you got the odd egregious cvnt, absolutely. But much of the shoplifting, petty theft and such was drug related and (almost everyone) that had fallen into that lifestyle had done inadvertently - bad life, bad luck, bad influences, bad choices.  

 

I saw some old friends I'd been at school with in Birstall come through the system.  It was a real eye opener for me and made me realise that I was very quick to judge people without really thinking about how they'd got to this incredibly low point in their lives. Some people I'd spent my time playing in a sandpit with at Riverside Primary school.  

 

So, to answer your question/point more directly.  I think there are some people who are simply bad eggs.  They absolutely exist. 

 

However, I think the majority of petty crime like shoplifting stems from a feeling of disenfranchisement, hopelessness and desperation.  It's one of the primary reasons I believe in a strong society that looks after one another.  It's better for everyone.  Less crime is better for everyone.  

 

And right now I'm not in the least surprised that shoplifting is through the roof as people get more desperate, feel more disenfranchised and less connected to other members in society. 

 

Edit* I don't want to minimise the victims of crime, of which I have been one.  I'm just making the point that people very rarely walk merrily into a life of crime as if it's a great life choice 

Edited 20 July 2023 by Bordersfox

[ajthefox]

 

These cvnts should be in prison for what they are doing to our rivers and our lakes.

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

 

@leicsmac I did warn you when you first mentioned it, and Christ knows why you've chosen the UK to move to, I can only imagine it must be for pretty strong personal reasons, otherwise there are hundreds of better places you could choose. 

 

 

You're absolutely right, and others did too. I do have personal reasons to go back, at least for the short term, but believe me, I will be keeping my options open. Perhaps somewhere closer next time, though.

[ozleicester]

Corporations have been stealing from the public for years... pay back time

[RobHawk]

11 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I'm amazed it's only gone up by that amount

I assume that's only the reported amount. I would guess it is actually a lot higher. 

 

I work in retail and we take shoplifting seriously in our store. I've probably reported at least 30 instances so far this year, but there's alot still going unnoticed and it is very disheartening when nothing ever gets done about it. 

 

We have some that are clearly people stealing to buy drugs or booze, they have a problem and this is a way to facilitate it. 

 

But by far from what I've seen first hand are people who don't need to steal, doing it for reasons only they know. Driving up in big posh cars, filling bags and not paying for them. Middle aged and elderly women just helping themselves to stuff they want but decide they don't want to pay for. 

 

The hard work is trying to get anything done about it, the police don't have enough resource and even though we have CCTV, number plates etc, I don't see much getting done. 

[Innovindil]

Magnum and Marmite-maker Unilever has reported profits rose by a fifth over six months, based almost entirely on raising its prices.

The consumer goods giant said that across the business, pre-tax profit rose 21% to €5.2bn (£4.4bn) but the number of goods that it sold fell.

 

Sales down, profit up 21% 

[Izzy]

9 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Magnum and Marmite-maker Unilever has reported profits rose by a fifth over six months, based almost entirely on raising its prices.

The consumer goods giant said that across the business, pre-tax profit rose 21% to €5.2bn (£4.4bn) but the number of goods that it sold fell.

 

Sales down, profit up 21% 

If Joe Bloggs is daft enough to pay £3 for a Magnum ice cream that costs about 10p to make, then this happens I guess…

 

(I do like the double caramel one though tbf)

[Wymsey]

Just now, Izzy said:

If Joe Bloggs is daft enough to pay £3 for a Magnum ice cream that costs about 10p to make, then this happens I guess…

 

(I do like the double caramel one though tbf)

Too sickly for me, sorry.

 

The white chocolate one is to die for, personally.

 

[FoxesDeb]

20 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Too sickly for me, sorry.

 

The white chocolate one is to die for, personally.

 

White chocolate is the work of the devil, and it isn't even chocolate 

[Strokes]

25 minutes ago, Izzy said:

If Joe Bloggs is daft enough to pay £3 for a Magnum ice cream that costs about 10p to make, then this happens I guess…

 

(I do like the double caramel one though tbf)

Yeah Choc ices were about £2 for a box of 20 when I was young. Who would’ve though you could sell them for £3 each, just by putting them on a wooden stick and changing the shape?

[UniFox21]

On 20/07/2023 at 20:30, Bordersfox said:

You raise some very interesting points Debs.

 

I think my response here is a Corbyn government would have solved all such societal issues and right now we'd be living in a Socialist utopia and, of course, there would be no crime 

 

I am taking the piss, of course, before anyone is triggered. 

 

More seriously whilst studying part-time many, many moons ago I worked, also part-time, for the Probation Service courts team based at the Mags court in Pocklingtons Walk. 

 

The team obviously dealt with a lot of petty crime. And the recurring theme was desperation and circumstance.  Yeah, you got the odd egregious cvnt, absolutely. But much of the shoplifting, petty theft and such was drug related and (almost everyone) that had fallen into that lifestyle had done inadvertently - bad life, bad luck, bad influences, bad choices.  

 

I saw some old friends I'd been at school with in Birstall come through the system.  It was a real eye opener for me and made me realise that I was very quick to judge people without really thinking about how they'd got to this incredibly low point in their lives. Some people I'd spent my time playing in a sandpit with at Riverside Primary school.  

 

So, to answer your question/point more directly.  I think there are some people who are simply bad eggs.  They absolutely exist. 

 

However, I think the majority of petty crime like shoplifting stems from a feeling of disenfranchisement, hopelessness and desperation.  It's one of the primary reasons I believe in a strong society that looks after one another.  It's better for everyone.  Less crime is better for everyone.  

 

And right now I'm not in the least surprised that shoplifting is through the roof as people get more desperate, feel more disenfranchised and less connected to other members in society. 

 

Edit* I don't want to minimise the victims of crime, of which I have been one.  I'm just making the point that people very rarely walk merrily into a life of crime as if it's a great life choice 

A really good post there.

 

Another aspect I wanted to highlight is our criminal system, we do treat people with convictions almost as another species. So once you get into that, it's hard to get out. 

 

 

Our prison system is set up to punish, not to re-educate or re-introduce you to 'normal' life. Many other countries, Norway for one, train you in a skill and help you find a career and job following conviction (admittedly for those on less serious/minor offences)