Cost of living crisis.

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

If he is taking big profits from the business (notwithstanding most of that is probably rebound of their share price in 2022) then a competing firm will to accept lower profit has an opportunity to come in and compete with them, while still paying drivers more. Not that Goodman is just a delivery company by any stretch of the imagination.

 

This response is beyond reasonable comprehension and is a picture perfect demonstration of what is wrong with the current system.

You didnt or chose not to, understand the issue raised, you focussed ONLY on the sharemarket $$$ and you failed to answer the clearest question.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, ozleicester said:

This response is beyond reasonable comprehension and is a picture perfect demonstration of what is wrong with the current system.

You didnt or chose not to, understand the issue raised, you focussed ONLY on the sharemarket $$$ and you failed to answer the clearest question.

I dispute your numbers in the first place.  As a shareholder when the shareprice moves so does his wealth, that is not the same as earnings.  

 

As a general point I think the pay for execs is nuts, and well out of reasonable alignment with the average worker.  No one is "worth" that kind of money.  It is though in most cases a tiny part of the spend of a business so not really indicative of whether people are paid the right amount for their job.  as an aside that driver salary looks very low - do any of them work part time?

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

I'd certainly go for that.  I can sit around enjoying life for 40 years while other people work to bring me food, build my house, supply my fuel, and so forth.  (Of course, if everyone chooses that lifestyle then I will have to grow my own food and build my own house and fetch my own fuel; and then it starts to become like work again.)  

Or perhaps we can advance automation to the point that no one has to do such things.

 

Ah, fvck it, I'm quoting Buckminster Fuller again:

 

"We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.”

 

There's so many people that seem wedded to the status quo ideas regarding work when they are as mutable as any other human concept.

[Daggers]

iF yOu DoNt LiKe SpAcE eXpLoRaTiOn ThEn WhY dOnT yOu BuIlD yOuR OwN rOcKeT. 
 

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, Daggers said:

iF yOu DoNt LiKe SpAcE eXpLoRaTiOn ThEn WhY dOnT yOu BuIlD yOuR OwN rOcKeT. 
 

I think you have gone off on a bit of a tangent here.  If you don't think you are paid what you are worth, find somewhere to work where you are.

[Daggers]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

I think you have gone off on a bit of a tangent here. 

Reductio ad absurdum. 
 

¬P  

[Jon the Hat]

26 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Reductio ad absurdum. 
 

¬P  

Its all Greek to me.

[Greg2607]

Core inflation staying stubborn then, with Interest Rate rises expected in September and October.... 

 

It's going to push some people right to the brink or over the edge. 

[dsr-burnley]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Or perhaps we can advance automation to the point that no one has to do such things.

 

Perhaps we can advance automation to the point where a lamb goes from a twinkle in the ram's eye to appearing on my plate without any human intervention at all.  And perhaps we can't.  But for certain, we can't do it yet, so until we do, someone is going to have to do some work - it'd be nice if it wasn't me and I can be the pharaoh and others can be my slaves, but it ain't happening yet.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Perhaps we can advance automation to the point where a lamb goes from a twinkle in the ram's eye to appearing on my plate without any human intervention at all.  And perhaps we can't.  But for certain, we can't do it yet, so until we do, someone is going to have to do some work - it'd be nice if it wasn't me and I can be the pharaoh and others can be my slaves, but it ain't happening yet.

Agreed, but I'll never get the argument that it's something we shouldn't work towards and therefore accept the status quo as a matter of course.

[dsr-burnley]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Agreed, but I'll never get the argument that it's something we shouldn't work towards and therefore accept the status quo as a matter of course.

We are working towards it - that's why the average working week has dropped from 60 hours to less than 40 in the past hundred years or so.  It could have dropped lower still if people hadn't wanted to increase their standards of living and would have been content to live iike we did then.

[Lionator]

Wage growth is still considerably under rate of inflation too. We're all getting poorer by the week.

[leicsmac]

39 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

We are working towards it - that's why the average working week has dropped from 60 hours to less than 40 in the past hundred years or so.  It could have dropped lower still if people hadn't wanted to increase their standards of living and would have been content to live iike we did then.

That and workers actually fighting for such reduced hours - I'm thinking a lot of people would still be doing 60+ hours a week even with current tech were that not the case.

 

Anyhow, my point is, if it wasn't clear, that those who are simply pointing to the working status quo and so implying it should continue are just getting in the way of such progress in terms of both working hours and quality of life,  unintentionally or intentionally.

 

 

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

49 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

We are working towards it - that's why the average working week has dropped from 60 hours to less than 40 in the past hundred years or so.  It could have dropped lower still if people hadn't wanted to increase their standards of living and would have been content to live iike we did then.

There's enough money in the economy to invest standards of living without keeping working hours at their current levels. We just need to spread it out more. 

[Lako42]

2 hours ago, Greg2607 said:

Core inflation staying stubborn then, with Interest Rate rises expected in September and October.... 

 

It's going to push some people right to the brink or over the edge. 

Just in time for the energy bills to be kicking in. 

 

 

Those with large mortgage outgoings as a % of income could be seriously in trouble. 

[Soar Fox]

2 hours ago, Greg2607 said:

Core inflation staying stubborn then, with Interest Rate rises expected in September and October.... 

 

It's going to push some people right to the brink or over the edge. 

They just need to knuckle down and work harder, apparently. 

[Nalis]

8 hours ago, Lionator said:

Wage growth is still considerably under rate of inflation too. We're all getting poorer by the week.

Yep. Loved the media spin on wages rising by record rates the other week while conveniently not referencing high inflation wiping it out and then some.

[Lionator]

I still can’t believe that the nurses unions tapped out at a 5% payrise, especially looking at what the Scottish doctors got today. 

[Wymsey]

The thing is, such pay increases may make other NHS employees unhappy - like Administrators, Ambulance staff, Porters etc.

Edited 16 August 2023 by Wymsey

[Bryn]

26 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

The thing is, such pay increases may make other NHS employees unhappy - like Administrators, Ambulance staff, Porters etc.

I personally would have strongly agreed with a united front with all NHS workers negotiating together, but that’s up to them and their unions.

[Wymsey]

2 minutes ago, Bryn said:

I personally would have strongly agreed with a united front with all NHS workers negotiating together, but that’s up to them and their unions.

Quite agree.

 

I feel that all NHS workers should be encouraged to join a union.

 

I've casually asked many fellow NHS workers (mostly non-doctors) over my years in the NHS, and many said they weren't part of one.

[Lionator]

6 minutes ago, Bryn said:

I personally would have strongly agreed with a united front with all NHS workers negotiating together, but that’s up to them and their unions.

That would be quite difficult given the different pay guidelines between doctors and nurses/other AHP’s. 

[Bryn]

Just now, Lionator said:

That would be quite difficult given the different pay guidelines between doctors and nurses/other AHP’s. 

True, but there could still have been coordination to try and amplify the message whilst also supporting the requirement to provide a certain level of cover.

[Lionator]

7 minutes ago, Bryn said:

True, but there could still have been coordination to try and amplify the message whilst also supporting the requirement to provide a certain level of cover.

That’s also true! Although the doctors, especially the consultants are asking for a 35% rise which I don’t think the nursing unions were anywhere near? 
 

Back to one of the original points, I don’t think enough NHS staff know their worth. 

[Zear0]

46 minutes ago, Lionator said:

That’s also true! Although the doctors, especially the consultants are asking for a 35% rise which I don’t think the nursing unions were anywhere near? 
 

Back to one of the original points, I don’t think enough NHS staff know their worth. 

Sadly neither do the government.