Cost of living crisis.

[Strokes]

25 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Most people pay for either public transport or parking, why should NHS staff be any different?  They should be paid properly of course.

I claim parking back, always have. I assume that’s the same for most?

[leicsmac]

53 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Really really really hacked off with this push on air source heat pumps.
 

BBC Breakfast have just done a segment about it. Thought it was going to be heavily biased towards sending people ‘Green’ but in fairness to them it was fairly well balanced.

 

What they’re still failing to mention though is the cost of having to also upgrade your radiators to roughly double the existing sizes, the pipe work to your radiators (if you live in a new build) and that’s before you redecorate. 
 

Ironically older and larger houses will more likely have the better suited framework to install these- an airing cupboard, older (larger) radiators and adequately sized pipe work to suit. These types of houses are also the ones that generally lack insufficient insulation too though 😂

 

New build houses have too small a size pipe work, radiators that won’t be big enough, and for the smaller houses- no airing cupboard to house the cylinder but will be insulated sufficiently 

 

Its unbelievable and massively irresponsible of the government ending the sales of gas fired boilers in less than 8 years time, without any sort of viable alternative at all.

 

You couldn’t make it up. In years to come there’ll be companies calling you offering payouts similar to PPI asking if you were mis-sold an air source heat pump. 
 

Even now with current gas prices, it’s still cheaper to run your boiler than it is to have one of these pieces of shite installed, let alone larger radiators/better insulation, and that’s before you think about redecorating after installation 

Being ticked off by the expense of green tech at the present time is fair enough, but this seems like a tirade against green tech in general.

 

May I ask the rationale behind this, considering that not adopting these solutions *will* cause problems within a few decades that will make the present time seem like a pleasant memory?

[kenny]

20 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

This isn't true though? Public transport yep, but parking????

Unless it's provided as a perk or the office has spaces then most staff don't get parking paid.

[Jon the Hat]

7 minutes ago, kenny said:

Unless it's provided as a perk or the office has spaces then most staff don't get parking paid.

Also worth pointing out that employers have to pay tax on parking spaces in a lot of councils.

[Dahnsouff]

59 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Really really really hacked off with this push on air source heat pumps.
 

BBC Breakfast have just done a segment about it. Thought it was going to be heavily biased towards sending people ‘Green’ but in fairness to them it was fairly well balanced.

 

What they’re still failing to mention though is the cost of having to also upgrade your radiators to roughly double the existing sizes, the pipe work to your radiators (if you live in a new build) and that’s before you redecorate. 
 

Ironically older and larger houses will more likely have the better suited framework to install these- an airing cupboard, older (larger) radiators and adequately sized pipe work to suit. These types of houses are also the ones that generally lack insufficient insulation too though 😂

 

New build houses have too small a size pipe work, radiators that won’t be big enough, and for the smaller houses- no airing cupboard to house the cylinder but will be insulated sufficiently 

 

Its unbelievable and massively irresponsible of the government ending the sales of gas fired boilers in less than 8 years time, without any sort of viable alternative at all.

 

You couldn’t make it up. In years to come there’ll be companies calling you offering payouts similar to PPI asking if you were mis-sold an air source heat pump. 
 

Even now with current gas prices, it’s still cheaper to run your boiler than it is to have one of these pieces of shite installed, let alone larger radiators/better insulation, and that’s before you think about redecorating after installation 

New builds are ripe for ASHP, older properties far less so for the reasons you highlight.  we are going through it now and insulation is a key point, more so than radiators in our case anyway.

We are getting (hopefully) a hybrid ASHP which supplements the heating with electricity (So it is like having a ASHP/electric boiler hybrid) but as with all home improvements, you have to look at what suits for both pocket and your own infrastructure (We have to replace just a single radiator, which was a pleasant surprise!), but our reasons for doing this were environmental rather than financial.

 

I am fully behind this and any government in this scheme, purely because remaining tied to gas is a further proliferation of the environmental disaster we are knowingly stumbling into. (Not that ASHPs will save the planet on their own)

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

14 minutes ago, kenny said:

Unless it's provided as a perk or the office has spaces then most staff don't get parking paid.

It's largely common place in the private sector and any employer describing that as a perk is off their rocker given the country has by and large spent the last two years working from home and not needing to be in the office. Public sector is a different case.

[The Year Of The Fox]

44 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Being ticked off by the expense of green tech at the present time is fair enough, but this seems like a tirade against green tech in general.

 

May I ask the rationale behind this, considering that not adopting these solutions *will* cause problems within a few decades that will make the present time seem like a pleasant memory?

Part of it is, because like anything, it sounds good on paper, but the reality of it is different. 
 

I’ll be honest with you- I’m much more concerned about the here and now than I am decades into future. Being forced to fork out upto £15k for a ASHP is much more worrying than any predictions for the year 2100. 
 

This scheme will force many into bankruptcy I feel. 
 

I know that makes me an awful human being but it is what it is
 

 

Edited 31 March 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[The Year Of The Fox]

19 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

New builds are ripe for ASHP, older properties far less so for the reasons you highlight.  we are going through it now and insulation is a key point, more so than radiators in our case anyway.

We are getting (hopefully) a hybrid ASHP which supplements the heating with electricity (So it is like having a ASHP/electric boiler hybrid) but as with all home improvements, you have to look at what suits for both pocket and your own infrastructure (We have to replace just a single radiator, which was a pleasant surprise!), but our reasons for doing this were environmental rather than financial.

 

I am fully behind this and any government in this scheme, purely because remaining tied to gas is a further proliferation of the environmental disaster we are knowingly stumbling into. (Not that ASHPs will save the planet on their own)

I don’t know about ‘ripe’ 

 

Most new builds have 10mm microbore pipes feeding radiators, whereas ASHP require 15mm.

[kenny]

17 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

It's largely common place in the private sector and any employer describing that as a perk is off their rocker given the country has by and large spent the last two years working from home and not needing to be in the office. Public sector is a different case.

It really isn't! My wife got a parking space on e she got to senior management, the other 200 employees do not.

 

Most out of town offices with car parks do not have enough spaces for the number of staff in them so they are allocated.

 

This has nothing to do with WFH culture it's always been this way.

[foxes1988]

Its worth doing some energy meter readings today folks.  Make sure you ain't paying more on the energy you've used before april 1st.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

12 minutes ago, kenny said:

It really isn't! My wife got a parking space on e she got to senior management, the other 200 employees do not.

 

Most out of town offices with car parks do not have enough spaces for the number of staff in them so they are allocated.

 

This has nothing to do with WFH culture it's always been this way.

I've done a bit of googling on this to check and the majority seem to offer parking - laughable if any company suggests its a perk. There are examples of companies that don't. The idea you have to pay to be in an office when you've proved you can do your job from home is madness in any sector regardless of it being the NHS or not and the fact that it's common practice in the public sector is bolocks. And imagine working for a company which only offers free parking for senior executives on inflated salaries....

[Dahnsouff]

28 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I don’t know about ‘ripe’ 

 

Most new builds have 10mm microbore pipes feeding radiators, whereas ASHP require 15mm.

Maybe, thought if ASHP were to become the norm for new housing, piping would inevitably become compatible.

[grobyfox1990]

2 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Really really really hacked off with this push on air source heat pumps.
 

BBC Breakfast have just done a segment about it. Thought it was going to be heavily biased towards sending people ‘Green’ but in fairness to them it was fairly well balanced.

 

What they’re still failing to mention though is the cost of having to also upgrade your radiators to roughly double the existing sizes, the pipe work to your radiators (if you live in a new build) and that’s before you redecorate. 
 

Ironically older and larger houses will more likely have the better suited framework to install these- an airing cupboard, older (larger) radiators and adequately sized pipe work to suit. These types of houses are also the ones that generally lack insufficient insulation too though 😂

 

New build houses have too small a size pipe work, radiators that won’t be big enough, and for the smaller houses- no airing cupboard to house the cylinder but will be insulated sufficiently 

 

Its unbelievable and massively irresponsible of the government ending the sales of gas fired boilers in less than 8 years time, without any sort of viable alternative at all.

 

You couldn’t make it up. In years to come there’ll be companies calling you offering payouts similar to PPI asking if you were mis-sold an air source heat pump. 
 

Even now with current gas prices, it’s still cheaper to run your boiler than it is to have one of these pieces of shite installed, let alone larger radiators/better insulation, and that’s before you think about redecorating after installation 

Thanks for sharing this. Quite interesting.

[The Year Of The Fox]

15 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe, thought if ASHP were to become the norm for new housing, piping would inevitably become compatible.

Well, current ASHPs aren’t thats for sure.

 

6 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Thanks for sharing this. Quite interesting.

This is my beef with it

 

The government won’t tell the truth about it. The idealists in the world will believe it’s perfect. Anyone with any form of knowledge on it won’t get heard 

 

 

Give this a watch. He actually says a lot of what I said https://youtu.be/GhAKMAcmJFg

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Part of it is, because like anything, it sounds good on paper, but the reality of it is different. 
 

I’ll be honest with you- I’m much more concerned about the here and now than I am decades into future. Being forced to fork out upto £15k for a ASHP is much more worrying than any predictions for the year 2100. 
 

This scheme will force many into bankruptcy I feel. 
 

I know that makes me an awful human being but it is what it is
 

 

I appreciate the candor, so thank you.

 

However, with all due respect, for the sake of hundreds of millions of people at best and human civilisation itself at worst, I hope that there aren't too many people with power who look at this the way your do.

 

Additionally, the self introspection in the last sentence makes me hope that you might reconsider your viewpoint in time. I'm sure you know that money means nothing to a society that no longer exists.

 

I'm here if you want to discuss it further.

[Fazzer 7]

2 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Really really really hacked off with this push on air source heat pumps.
 

BBC Breakfast have just done a segment about it. Thought it was going to be heavily biased towards sending people ‘Green’ but in fairness to them it was fairly well balanced.

 

What they’re still failing to mention though is the cost of having to also upgrade your radiators to roughly double the existing sizes, the pipe work to your radiators (if you live in a new build) and that’s before you redecorate. 
 

Ironically older and larger houses will more likely have the better suited framework to install these- an airing cupboard, older (larger) radiators and adequately sized pipe work to suit. These types of houses are also the ones that generally lack insufficient insulation too though 😂

 

New build houses have too small a size pipe work, radiators that won’t be big enough, and for the smaller houses- no airing cupboard to house the cylinder but will be insulated sufficiently 

 

Its unbelievable and massively irresponsible of the government ending the sales of gas fired boilers in less than 8 years time, without any sort of viable alternative at all.

 

You couldn’t make it up. In years to come there’ll be companies calling you offering payouts similar to PPI asking if you were mis-sold an air source heat pump. 
 

Even now with current gas prices, it’s still cheaper to run your boiler than it is to have one of these pieces of shite installed, let alone larger radiators/better insulation, and that’s before you think about redecorating after installation 

You seem to be singing from my hymn sheet. I feel this whole Green agenda, Net Zero thing or whatever name you wish to give it just hasn't been thought through properly. What gets me is that this Country apparently only produces 1 percent or thereabouts of global co2 emissions! So surely anything we do is pretty futile in the big scheme of things. I get the improving air quality and reducing dependency on Russian gas. But come on, forcing people to install rubbish heat pumps and drive expensive electric cars isn't the way to go, let the market dictate the pace of change. 

 

Also the latest fad it seems, is to cover swathes of our countryside and agri land in solar panels. Soon farmers will be planting them not wheat to feed the Nation. We need another referendum on 'Net Zero' it's impact will be massive and affect everyone.

[adam]

So unless the government provide some substantial grants for these heat pumps how are they seriously expecting people to afford them? A lot of people can't even afford to turn their boilers on at the moment let alone shell out for a completely new system. 

This green push is going to cost us all an absolute fortune which many won't be able to afford. 

[Scotch]

47 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe, thought if ASHP were to become the norm for new housing, piping would inevitably become compatible.

The way forward for new builds is Biomass boilers. I just moved into a new build in October and as well as each house in the development having solar panels, we all share one biomass boiler between 100 odd houses and it really is fantastic. 

[rachhere]

2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

You seem to be singing from my hymn sheet. I feel this whole Green agenda, Net Zero thing or whatever name you wish to give it just hasn't been thought through properly. What gets me is that this Country apparently only produces 1 percent or thereabouts of global co2 emissions! So surely anything we do is pretty futile in the big scheme of things. I get the improving air quality and reducing dependency on Russian gas. But come on, forcing people to install rubbish heat pumps and drive expensive electric cars isn't the way to go, let the market dictate the pace of change. 

 

Also the latest fad it seems, is to cover swathes of our countryside and agri land in solar panels. Soon farmers will be planting them not wheat to feed the Nation. We need another referendum on 'Net Zero' it's impact will be massive and affect everyone.

Indeed. We need more global solutions to really tackle this, but that's not popular politically. There is of course lots we can do locally, but the scheme being offered seem very tokenistic. 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Scotch said:

The way forward for new builds is Biomass boilers. I just moved into a new build in October and as well as each house in the development having solar panels, we all share one biomass boiler between 100 odd houses and it really is fantastic. 

That does sound ideal, so perhaps A/GSHP are best for older properties and what you suggest is best suited for newer properties. Although would love to see this localised community generation available to all, which sounds like what you will have with the biomass boiler.

[kenny]

58 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

I've done a bit of googling on this to check and the majority seem to offer parking - laughable if any company suggests its a perk. There are examples of companies that don't. The idea you have to pay to be in an office when you've proved you can do your job from home is madness in any sector regardless of it being the NHS or not and the fact that it's common practice in the public sector is bolocks. And imagine working for a company which only offers free parking for senior executives on inflated salaries....

Or offering parking to the ones most likely to be 'on the road' visiting clients.

 

I am very much looking forward to this inflated salary arriving in my wifes account though. I might give up work.

 

 

[Scotch]

8 minutes ago, adam said:

So unless the government provide some substantial grants for these heat pumps how are they seriously expecting people to afford them? A lot of people can't even afford to turn their boilers on at the moment let alone shell out for a completely new system. 

This green push is going to cost us all an absolute fortune which many won't be able to afford. 

Ironically, the government were pushing green scheme grants and subsidies for years. Most of the way through my twenties (I'm 36 now) I worked for sales companies who focused on calling and promoting ground/air source heat pumps as well as solar panels and folk really just weren't very interested. 

[Scotch]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

That does sound ideal, so perhaps A/GSHP are best for older properties and what you suggest is best suited for newer properties. Although would love to see this localised community generation available to all, which sounds like what you will have with the biomass boiler.

Yeah, I mean the only realistic way to do it is with future development sites that they build going forward. I don't think it's realistic to put this sort of community system in after the houses are already built unfortunately. 

 

But we really lucked out getting this house just in time for this crisis. Our heating bills over the winter were insanely low. Electricity is still fairly high though considering we have solar panels strapped to our roof and each house was fitted with energy saving bulbs etc. 

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

I moved into my current house about a year ago, and the boiler was ancient so I contacted my plumber to come and quote for a new combi and radiators. He said to get in touch with this firm he knows who were given a government grant to install GSH pumps for free, so I got in touch and he was giving me the information - as soon as I mentioned the floor downstairs is concrete (not floorboards) it was an instant "no", and I was ineligible for any sort of subsidy. Was also after all the green grants had been cancelled, so rather than wait to see if any other schemes came about I just got the standard combi installed

 

I've just had a quick read up about infrared heating panels though, and they seem like a very good alternative - has anyone had these installed? Apart from the 100% efficiency, there's no gas involved, no chance of carbon monoxide leakage, zero maintenance and guarantees of 10 years, plus the panels are much slimmer than standard radiators and can be ceiling-mounted. Seems like the only downside is you'd need another source for heating water, but from the little research I've done I'd be swaying towards infrared panels in the future

[kenny]

17 minutes ago, Scotch said:

The way forward for new builds is Biomass boilers. I just moved into a new build in October and as well as each house in the development having solar panels, we all share one biomass boiler between 100 odd houses and it really is fantastic. 

I'm never sure how eco they are once the pellets etc are delivered by lorry. Particularly if you have a district heating system which must have inefficiencies along the way.

 

In the short term, regular electric combi-boilers work fine with existing radiator systems, then the electricity has to be produced in an eco friendly way. For new builds that have high levels of insulation and air tightness then air source heat pumps may work, but I suspect they are a bit of a fad.