Cost of living crisis.

[The Year Of The Fox]

25 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I appreciate the candor, so thank you.

 

However, with all due respect, for the sake of hundreds of millions of people at best and human civilisation itself at worst, I hope that there aren't too many people with power who look at this the way your do.

 

Additionally, the self introspection in the last sentence makes me hope that you might reconsider your viewpoint in time. I'm sure you know that money means nothing to a society that no longer exists.

 

I'm here if you want to discuss it further.

But if everyone’s virtually homeless or skint in the next decade, what’s the point in worrying about in 100 years time anyway?

 

As someone said above, my damage to the ozone layer/eco system/ carbon footprint or whatever the buzz word of today is, is absolutely minimal in my two up two down gas fired combi boiler, which i probably have on for an average of 1 hour a day over the year is absolutely minimal compared to the damage the likes of China do. 
 

 

[Scotch]

1 minute ago, kenny said:

I'm never sure how eco they are once the pellets etc are delivered by lorry. Particularly if you have a district heating system which must have inefficiencies along the way.

 

In the short term, regular electric combi-boilers work fine with existing radiator systems, then the electricity has to be produced in an eco friendly way. For new builds that have high levels of insulation and air tightness then air source heat pumps may work, but I suspect they are a bit of a fad.

I have absolutely no idea how green they are to be fair and as selfish as it sounds, it isn't really a concern. Getting a £15 monthly heating bill for a 3 bedroom house is all I care about in the current financial climate. 

[kenny]

6 minutes ago, Scotch said:

I have absolutely no idea how green they are to be fair and as selfish as it sounds, it isn't really a concern. Getting a £15 monthly heating bill for a 3 bedroom house is all I care about in the current financial climate. 

Does that have Scottish subsidies?? Hard to see why its that cheap without them?

 

Or are they Passivhaus?

Edited 31 March 2022 by kenny
Additional query!

[Scotch]

4 minutes ago, kenny said:

Does that have Scottish subsidies?? Hard to see why its that cheap without them?

It's a council property. As far as I know, there aren't any subsidies on our bill itself but I suppose I didn't ask too many questions given the financial burden it eased from the old bank balance. 

[kenny]

11 minutes ago, Scotch said:

It's a council property. As far as I know, there aren't any subsidies on our bill itself but I suppose I didn't ask too many questions given the financial burden it eased from the old bank balance. 

I have had clients install them at their (very large!) private homes and they typically complain about them. I suspect the Scottish Government provide some sort of renewable subsidy to heat generation that won't show up on your bill.

 

The only time I have seen bills that cheap is on Passivhaus developments where the houses don't really have heating.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Fazzer 7 said:

You seem to be singing from my hymn sheet. I feel this whole Green agenda, Net Zero thing or whatever name you wish to give it just hasn't been thought through properly. What gets me is that this Country apparently only produces 1 percent or thereabouts of global co2 emissions! So surely anything we do is pretty futile in the big scheme of things. I get the improving air quality and reducing dependency on Russian gas. But come on, forcing people to install rubbish heat pumps and drive expensive electric cars isn't the way to go, let the market dictate the pace of change. 

 

Also the latest fad it seems, is to cover swathes of our countryside and agri land in solar panels. Soon farmers will be planting them not wheat to feed the Nation. We need another referendum on 'Net Zero' it's impact will be massive and affect everyone.

The problem with the "market", as efficient as it mostly can be, is that it seldom looks beyond the end of a human life. That is an error that the Earth can and will punish.

 

And engaging China and India in a mutual trace to collapse just because "they're not doing enough" isn't exactly forward thinking either.

 

I certainly agree that these new techs need to be incentivised financially, but I can't see how the actual *need* for them is in question at all - not when the global average temperature is rising as it is and the consequences of inaction are what they are.

 

"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they will never sit."

 

Grows great and guarantees survival, too.

 

1 hour ago, adam said:

So unless the government provide some substantial grants for these heat pumps how are they seriously expecting people to afford them? A lot of people can't even afford to turn their boilers on at the moment let alone shell out for a completely new system. 

This green push is going to cost us all an absolute fortune which many won't be able to afford. 

As per above regarding incentives, this is where government really does have to step in.

 

Also, it's a straight choice: pay more now or pay a *lot* more later, along with being remembered as the generation that completely betrayed its children. Provided there's enough people to remember, that is.

 

37 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

But if everyone’s virtually homeless or skint in the next decade, what’s the point in worrying about in 100 years time anyway?

 

As someone said above, my damage to the ozone layer/eco system/ carbon footprint or whatever the buzz word of today is, is absolutely minimal in my two up two down gas fired combi boiler, which i probably have on for an average of 1 hour a day over the year is absolutely minimal compared to the damage the likes of China do. 
 

 

See above.

 

Do we really want to be the ones that have to explain in a few decades just how badly we ruined the Earth for what is left of them, just because we couldn't handle a change? And the way I see it, everyone in a reasonably affluent country would be culpable in some way or another for it - I certainly would think so if things went wrong and I was growing up into that world.

Edited 31 March 2022 by leicsmac

[Scotch]

15 minutes ago, kenny said:

I have had clients install them at their (very large!) private homes and they typically complain about them. I suspect the Scottish Government provide some sort of renewable subsidy to heat generation that won't show up on your bill.

 

The only time I have seen bills that cheap is on Passivhaus developments where the houses don't really have heating.

You could be right but anything I've tried to find on subsidies hasn't turned up anything. 

 

I do know they were pretty proud of how energy efficient and green they were going to be when they built them, saying things like...

 

"The new homes include features such as a biomass district heating system, heat interface units (HIU) in each home, smart dual zone temperature controls, solar photovoltaic panel installations, water saving taps and toilets, low energy LED lighting and mechanical ventilation systems"

 

Like I said, our bill this month was £15. During the hight of winter it was obviously more  maybe a bit below double that and that was with our heating on constantly. Although the heating system was set to go off and on once the house hit or went below the temperate we set it at. 

 

[adam]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The problem with the "market", as efficient as it mostly can be, is that it seldom looks beyond the end of a human life. That is an error that the Earth can and will punish.

 

And engaging China and India in a mutual trace to collapse just because "they're not doing enough" isn't exactly forward thinking either.

 

I certainly agree that these new techs need to be incentivised financially, but I can't see how the actual *need* for them is in question at all - not when the global average temperature is rising as it is and the consequences of inaction are what they are.

 

"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they will never sit."

 

Grows great and guarantees survival, too.

 

As per above regarding incentives, this is where government really does have to step in.

 

Also, it's a straight choice: pay more now or pay a *lot* more later, along with being remembered as the generation that completely betrayed its children. Provided there's enough people to remember, that is.

 

See above.

 

Do we really want to be the ones that have to explain in a few decades just how badly we ruined the Earth for what is left of them, just because we couldn't handle a change? And the way I see it, everyone in a reasonably affluent country would be culpable in some way or another for it - I certainly would think so if things went wrong and I was growing up into that world.

But in the real world people can't afford to pay more now. Are you expecting families to sit in the cold at night just for us to do our bit which will make next to no different in the rise in global temperatures. People won't support it. 

Edited 31 March 2022 by adam

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, adam said:

But in the real world people can't afford to pay more now. Are you expecting families to sit in the cold at night just for us to do our bit which will make next to no different in the rise in global temperatures. People won't support it. 

You're right, which is why I said government have to step in and do their part. People are people, after all.

 

But the necessity of it, both on the UK and in the wider world, really shouldn't be a question and I'm rather distressed that as a species we seem to be no better at looking ahead than any other animal. It won't end well.

 

I certainly agree about human nature, but we need, for the sake of the future, to come up with a solution that people will buy into. Otherwise the consequences will make today look like when Leicester won the league in terms of happiness.

 

Imagine basic food and water resources vastly more expensive than they are now and a billion refugees displaced and looking for a new home. That won't end well.

[grobyfox1990]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Being ticked off by the expense of green tech at the present time is fair enough, but this seems like a tirade against green tech in general.

 

May I ask the rationale behind this, considering that not adopting these solutions *will* cause problems within a few decades that will make the present time seem like a pleasant memory?

This is the problem though, we are not able, as the vast majority, to do anything out of a 1-3 year timespan as individuals. Ironically, the best rewards in terms of investment come through a long-term timespan, look at any stock market graph on a long horizon. But who can afford to do that?!

 

We need to take the lead from policymakers, in this context money does not matter, print the money and ensure everyone can position themselves as net zero friendly as possible. But we know that will not happen, policymakers work on an election timespan. You mention 'a few decades time' - which normal individual or policymaker cares about something this far away. It's not realistic.

[kenny]

23 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

This is the problem though, we are not able, as the vast majority, to do anything out of a 1-3 year timespan as individuals. Ironically, the best rewards in terms of investment come through a long-term timespan, look at any stock market graph on a long horizon. But who can afford to do that?!

 

We need to take the lead from policymakers, in this context money does not matter, print the money and ensure everyone can position themselves as net zero friendly as possible. But we know that will not happen, policymakers work on an election timespan. You mention 'a few decades time' - which normal individual or policymaker cares about something this far away. It's not realistic.

Using small amounts of gas to heat your home isn't the crux of the problem anyway. As we improve the housing stock and technology comes into play the carbon emitted from homes comes down naturally.

 

We do need to address consumerism and importing goods from around the world, much of which is produced in ways that we don't want to think about. It has been discussed before, that we have outsourced our manufacturing to China and India, then sit back and complain about their carbon emissions as if they aren't linked to our own. There needs to be more focus on local production, less throw-away goods and the environmental standards of the products that are produced abroad. This would have a bigger impact on carbon than solar panel subsidies or other quick wins granted by the government.

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, foxes1988 said:

Its worth doing some energy meter readings today folks.  Make sure you ain't paying more on the energy you've used before april 1st.

willy pullers

 

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[The Year Of The Fox]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

willy pullers

 

Sorry, we're experiencing higher than usual levels of traffic. Please try again later

I was trying to log into my account this morning but couldn’t remember my password. Requesting two emails to reset my password etc but didn’t receive them.

 

Turns out I’m with edf 😂

 

[grobyfox1990]

15 minutes ago, kenny said:

Using small amounts of gas to heat your home isn't the crux of the problem anyway. As we improve the housing stock and technology comes into play the carbon emitted from homes comes down naturally.

 

We do need to address consumerism and importing goods from around the world, much of which is produced in ways that we don't want to think about. It has been discussed before, that we have outsourced our manufacturing to China and India, then sit back and complain about their carbon emissions as if they aren't linked to our own. There needs to be more focus on local production, less throw-away goods and the environmental standards of the products that are produced abroad. This would have a bigger impact on carbon than solar panel subsidies or other quick wins granted by the government.

Completely agree, as they say ‘buy cheap buy twice’ - as I allude to in my first post, investing in the long term always pays dividends, that goes for consumer items too. If you buy more expensive buy quality goods, they’ll last you 10 years instead of 1. I still have suits, shirts, dress shoes that are over 10 years old and still look good and have kept their form 

[leicsmac]

56 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

This is the problem though, we are not able, as the vast majority, to do anything out of a 1-3 year timespan as individuals. Ironically, the best rewards in terms of investment come through a long-term timespan, look at any stock market graph on a long horizon. But who can afford to do that?!

 

We need to take the lead from policymakers, in this context money does not matter, print the money and ensure everyone can position themselves as net zero friendly as possible. But we know that will not happen, policymakers work on an election timespan. You mention 'a few decades time' - which normal individual or policymaker cares about something this far away. It's not realistic.

Yep, you're right.

 

However, policymakers really really need to be looking at a solution to that kind of short-termism and getting the public to follow, rather than accepting the horrible consequences that will result of it as a fait accompli.

 

The above discussion about getting things built to last is a start. Moving to energy solutions built on something other than fossil fuels is another.

 

 To be honest, I'm not overly fussed about the nature of the solution so long as it is effective - the clock is ticking and we've wasted far too much valuable time already.

[kenny]

20 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Completely agree, as they say ‘buy cheap buy twice’ - as I allude to in my first post, investing in the long term always pays dividends, that goes for consumer items too. If you buy more expensive buy quality goods, they’ll last you 10 years instead of 1. I still have suits, shirts, dress shoes that are over 10 years old and still look good and have kept their form 

You also have the attitude that goes with it. There are many that will do as you have done and will still have a new TV/Car/Phone/coat every 3 years.

 

There is a lot to be said from learning from how we used to do things, where there was much more re-use as manufacturing was more expensive.

[goose2010]

30 minutes ago, Izzy said:

willy pullers

 

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yup majority of energy providers sites are down - shock horror! . If you cannot get through take a picture of your metre readings and email them to yourself so they are date stamped. 

 

Martin Lewis is worth a follow on twitter today as he is telling you what to do if you cant submit them today. 

[Greg2607]

55 minutes ago, kenny said:

You also have the attitude that goes with it. There are many that will do as you have done and will still have a new TV/Car/Phone/coat every 3 years.

 

There is a lot to be said from learning from how we used to do things, where there was much more re-use as manufacturing was more expensive.

the cost of living is going to force us in this direction anyway.   My Wife has an Iphone where the contract expired 18 months ago.  She could have updated, but she won't to a SIM only contract as the phone was fine.  Mine is due to upgrade in June, but i'll go SIM only again as the phone is perfect for my use case.   I paid off the finance on my car 15 months ago.  Normally i'd upgrade, but with Working from home these days, i've only done 500 miles between MOT's (we use my wife's company car for all family journies etc) 

 

Our energy has gone from £80 a month to £240 a month, so the money I did have "spare" to update my car has gone now. Sucked up into Gas and electric. 

 

the whole of our "normal" society is going to be feeling this or the next 18 months for sure. 

 

Buckle in. It's going to be a rough ride!

 

[FoxesDeb]

If you're taking meter reading photos try to include the meter serial number in the picture, it usually sits near a bar code. If you have a smart meter make sure the reading comes from the meter itself on the wall of your house and not the digital display you have in the house. It's amazing how many people think their smart meter is their in home display. 

[Nalis]

Surely energy consumption will be charged on a pro rata basis up to today depending on the usage and the April rates kick in from tomorrow's usage?

 

Wont take the chance and will do a reading today anyway of course! 

[Fazzer 7]

3 hours ago, goose2010 said:

yup majority of energy providers sites are down - shock horror! . If you cannot get through take a picture of your metre readings and email them to yourself so they are date stamped. 

 

Martin Lewis is worth a follow on twitter today as he is telling you what to do if you cant submit them today. 

Those on a fixed tariff will be unaffected after tomorrow, won't we?

[Otis]

1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

If you're taking meter reading photos try to include the meter serial number in the picture, it usually sits near a bar code. If you have a smart meter make sure the reading comes from the meter itself on the wall of your house and not the digital display you have in the house. It's amazing how many people think their smart meter is their in home display. 

Pretty sure you don't need to submit your meter readings is you have a smart meter.

[BKLFox]

2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Those on a fixed tariff will be unaffected after tomorrow, won't we?

Correct

[FoxesDeb]

Just now, Otis said:

Pretty sure you don't need to submit your meter readings is you have a smart meter.

You should still check they are correct, especially at the moment with the price increase as they stop communicating all the time, and it can mean you're being over charged if you don't have proof. 

[Bayfox]

10 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Those on a fixed tariff will be unaffected after tomorrow, won't we?

Yes we are just in for an even bigger shock when we exit it.