Cost of living crisis.

[Izzy]

8 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I tend to agree. There is this weird cult of senior businesspeople that only they could lead an organisation. 

 

Apart from being able to read a financial set of accounts,   I struggle to think of what a ceo offers more than a friendly, half decent middle manager would. 

 

Like everything in life, there are good senior businesspeople and there are shit ones.

 

The best are visionary, strategic, empathetic, customer/people focused, and inspirational. The shit ones are power hungry, egotistical, psychopaths.

 

The shit ones usually get found out sooner or later in my experience.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Edit: wrong thread really but vaguely excited at the prospect of not having to buy petrol anymore

Edited 24 June 2022 by Bellend Sebastian

[Paninistickers]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Like everything in life, there are good senior businesspeople and there are shit ones.

 

The best are visionary, strategic, empathetic, customer/people focused, and inspirational. The shit ones are power hungry, egotistical, psychopaths.

 

The shit ones usually get found out sooner or later in my experience.

I agree, but still think that the vast majority are overrated. 

 

I've worked for a few, with a few and met a few. The main stand out feature was charisma. Most had it. Or posh, with middling charisma.  I don't mean necessarily flamboyance. Just a natural easy charm.  But intelligence and business nous varied from above average to rank average. 

 

Oddly enough, contrary to that experience described above, I work for a 200m turnover business now and the ceo is one of the few ive met that are there on intelligence alone. Very ordinary social skills,  average charisma. No inspiration but his intellect wins most over. 

 

 

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, Paninistickers said:

I agree, but still think that the vast majority are overrated. 

 

I've worked for a few, with a few and met a few. The main stand out feature was charisma. Most had it. Or posh, with middling charisma.  I don't mean necessarily flamboyance. Just a natural easy charm.  But intelligence and business nous varied from above average to rank average. 

 

Oddly enough, contrary to that experience described above, I work for a 200m turnover business now and the ceo is one of the few ive met that are there on intelligence alone. Very ordinary social skills,  average charisma. No inspiration but his intellect wins most over. 

 

Many are overrated, for sure. I'm an Exec coach and leadership trainer, so I work with these people every day.

 

Many are posh/degree educated, but some have made their way up from the shop floor. I agree that charisma/charm is a common factor and I'd argue that means they're comfortable in their own skin, know who they are, display humility and vulnerability when required, and don't claim to know all the answers or be the expert in everything. They're the leaders that people want to follow IMO.

 

The very intelligent ones clearly have a high IQ, but not necessarily a high EQ (Emotional Intelligence). Like your CEO, they don't have great social skills or much charisma, but know enough to get investors on board and hit the numbers. But without the vision and inspiration, employees will eventually become bored/unmotivated and stop performing because they can't see a compelling future or reason to stick around (just like footballers working for a crap manager I suppose)

 

Ideally you need both high IQ and high EQ to be a good corporate leader these days.

 

[kenny]

39 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

What point are you trying to make here.  Railway workers were required to carry on working during a pandemic and therefore took the consequent risks that those on furlough did not have to take,  many losing their lifes in the process.   Guess you think essential workers seeing people clap there appreciation outside their house for a few weeks should make up for decent pay.

 

Nope, just making the point that the private sector suffers differently to the public sector. 

 

I'm not sure there is any evidence that railway workers were at any more risk than anyone else that worked in the pandemic so I don't know why that is relevant.

 

I did take a look at salaries in the rail sector and they seem fairly reasonable. Entry level jobs pay as well as graduate level jobs in my profession.

 

 

[Foxdiamond]

16 minutes ago, kenny said:

Nope, just making the point that the private sector suffers differently to the public sector. 

 

I'm not sure there is any evidence that railway workers were at any more risk than anyone else that worked in the pandemic so I don't know why that is relevant.

 

I did take a look at salaries in the rail sector and they seem fairly reasonable. Entry level jobs pay as well as graduate level jobs in my profession.

 

 

Many of the bus drivers belong to the RMT and they were certainly at more risk and a number died. Private sector or public workers we should not be divided. I am quite sure a great many of us wish we had a union and some political weight to bring to bear. That there are others that can defend their jobs and terms is a welcome bastion against exploitation.

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Something needs to give. At work today and hearing people left right and centre talk about how selfish and pathetic the rail strikes are. I just don't get that way of thinking. How else are people meant to stand up against the capalist machine without bringing it to its knees. The idea that a 7% pay rise is outrageous in this climate baffles me. 

Many people, in non-government employment at least, don't want to bring the capitalist machine to its knees.  There are definite downsides to putting your employer out of business.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, kenny said:

Worth noting that they weren't furloughed and subject to a 20 % drop in salary like many were.

They have been however subject to falling pay rates for out of hours working. 

[CosbehFox]

Anyway fecking christ that energy bill increase 

[Wymsey]

The worst is yet to come, isn't it.

[kenny]

7 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

Many of the bus drivers belong to the RMT and they were certainly at more risk and a number died. Private sector or public workers we should not be divided. I am quite sure a great many of us wish we had a union and some political weight to bring to bear. That there are others that can defend their jobs and terms is a welcome bastion against exploitation.

Then join a union there is nothing stopping you?

 

Ive always been of the school of leave your job if you don't like it, but unions are there if you want them.

 

I can't understand why anyone would work for BA having had a paycut that hasn't been returned. I would have been out the door long ago.

[Robo61]

8 hours ago, kenny said:

Nope, just making the point that the private sector suffers differently to the public sector. 

 

I'm not sure there is any evidence that railway workers were at any more risk than anyone else that worked in the pandemic so I don't know why that is relevant.

 

I did take a look at salaries in the rail sector and they seem fairly reasonable. Entry level jobs pay as well as graduate level jobs in my profession.

 

 

I don't disagree on that point,  though not in the same way.  Why do you think most public sector organisations are currently struggling to recruit the staff they need. 

[kenny]

14 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

I don't disagree on that point,  though not in the same way.  Why do you think most public sector organisations are currently struggling to recruit the staff they need. 

Typically because they treat their staff in a way you couldn't get away with in the private sector. The pay is what we hear, but in practice it's fine.

 

This is based upon my experience with the NHS and teachers rather than rail workers.

 

Edited 25 June 2022 by kenny

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, kenny said:

Then join a union there is nothing stopping you?

 

Ive always been of the school of leave your job if you don't like it, but unions are there if you want them.

 

I can't understand why anyone would work for BA having had a paycut that hasn't been returned. I would have been out the door long ago.

My workplace has a union. I think for some unions are demonised. 

[Heathrow fox]

I thought one compensation regarding civil service pay was that you get a pension?I’m sure whenever my sister’s been on strike in the past,the tinkering with pensions and retirement age has been one of the main gripes.

[Daggers]

Local garage advertised 183.4 yesterday so I went to fill on my way to breakfast. No ‘cheap’ fuel, not enough in the tank to get me anywhere else - I almost cried real tears as filling. 

[Nick]

26 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Local garage advertised 183.4 yesterday so I went to fill on my way to breakfast. No ‘cheap’ fuel, not enough in the tank to get me anywhere else - I almost cried real tears as filling. 

Less eating breakfast 'out' required? 

[fox_up_north]

It's been shown that the kind of people who "rise to the top" in business, nearly always lack empathy and their success is a direct result of it. 

 

The best way would be someone who knows their stuff but is a bit of a reluctant leader. Or don't concentrate power in one person's hands.

 

As I get older, I like the idea of a salary cap for people more and more. Realistically, what do you need more than £5 million a year for? You don't even really need that much. Just call it 90% tax on anything above that. 

[ozleicester]

14 hours ago, Izzy said:

Market forces unfortunately. You want the best leadership talent, you have to pay a premium.

 

No different in business to football really, it's all about what your responsibilities are. Rodgers earns £10m a year or whatever, where as the people in the club shop/ticket office earn a fraction of that.

 

It's no more obscene than footballers earning £300k a week and nurses earning £30k a year.

 

It's frustrating and it's wrong, but I don't ever see it changing.

Completely disagree, there is no similarity to football. Failing upward is the standard, there are literally tens of thousands of people capable to run corporations but the con continues. 

[Strokes]

15 hours ago, Izzy said:

Market forces unfortunately. You want the best leadership talent, you have to pay a premium.

 

No different in business to football really, it's all about what your responsibilities are. Rodgers earns £10m a year or whatever, where as the people in the club shop/ticket office earn a fraction of that.

 

It's no more obscene than footballers earning £300k a week and nurses earning £30k a year.

 

It's frustrating and it's wrong, but I don't ever see it changing.

Well it has too, we can’t continue in a world whereby the workers pay goes down but the fat cats wage keeps rising. It’s unsustainable and it’s very close to breaking point in many industries.

[grobyfox1990]

15 hours ago, Izzy said:

Market forces unfortunately. You want the best leadership talent, you have to pay a premium.

 

No different in business to football really, it's all about what your responsibilities are. Rodgers earns £10m a year or whatever, where as the people in the club shop/ticket office earn a fraction of that.

 

It's no more obscene than footballers earning £300k a week and nurses earning £30k a year.

 

It's frustrating and it's wrong, but I don't ever see it changing.

For me football is near enough the ultimate meritocracy. Anyone, even from the most deprived village in Senegal, can rise to the top of the game and earn the requisite rewards (Mane). And if they hit a run of bad form can quickly be left behind (Bale). 

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

Less eating breakfast 'out' required? 

That idea is as stupid as Izzy’s ‘you need to pay millions to attract the best’.

[SpacedX]

36 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Completely disagree, there is no similarity to football. Failing upward is the standard, there are literally tens of thousands of people capable to run corporations but the con continues. 

And if they were given the opportunity - and don't suggest that it doesn't happen - do you think they'd accept any less or ask for a pay cut? 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

That idea is as stupid as Izzy’s ‘you need to pay millions to attract the best’.

Not my idea mate. It’s just the way it is. 

[Foxdiamond]

I understand that the average CEO is paid well over 200 times more than their rank and file worker. The ratio was about 20 times in the 1950s and 120 times in 2000. I don't see government particularly the Tories breaking a sweat to change this runaway gap. Yet as soon as a group of workers protest or go on strike they are vilified