Cost of living crisis.

[RoboFox]

47 minutes ago, Milo said:

Doesn't quite work like that, though. 
 

Do you honestly think that if it wasn’t privatised it would be making the profits we’re seeing today? 

 

No, and you know I don't. My point was truncated slightly for the purposes of the forum. Loses punch when you start to go on a bit.

 

The more pertinent point is where the profits go.

 

Edited 2 August 2022 by RoboFox

[Dames]

41 minutes ago, Milo said:

Doesn't quite work like that, though. 
 

Do you honestly think that if it wasn’t privatised it would be making the profits we’re seeing today? 

No they wouldn't be making this level of profits but petrol would be half the price if not less. 

 

The problem is that a huge majority of our public services are beholden to shareholder payouts which means we get less of a service and a declining infrastructure because every single margin has to be squeezed for shareholder profit.

 

If these companies were still publicly owned, they would send a portion of the profits to the treasury and the rest would be used to reinvest.

 

Privatisation is a bigger disaster than we've ever faced and we are past the point of no return. It will only get worse year on year for us normal people here on out.

[Foxdiamond]

7 minutes ago, Dames said:

No they wouldn't be making this level of profits but petrol would be half the price if not less. 

 

The problem is that a huge majority of our public services are beholden to shareholder payouts which means we get less of a service and a declining infrastructure because every single margin has to be squeezed for shareholder profit.

 

If these companies were still publicly owned, they would send a portion of the profits to the treasury and the rest would be used to reinvest.

 

Privatisation is a bigger disaster than we've ever faced and we are past the point of no return. It will only get worse year on year for us normal people here on out.

The Tories knew all this when they sold everything and on the cheap.

[Dames]

5 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

The Tories knew all this when they sold everything and on the cheap.

Of course they did. A few well placed donations and that's all they care about.

[Foxdiamond]

What a load of mugs we are being taken for

[kenny]

35 minutes ago, Dames said:

No they wouldn't be making this level of profits but petrol would be half the price if not less. 

 

The problem is that a huge majority of our public services are beholden to shareholder payouts which means we get less of a service and a declining infrastructure because every single margin has to be squeezed for shareholder profit.

 

If these companies were still publicly owned, they would send a portion of the profits to the treasury and the rest would be used to reinvest.

 

Privatisation is a bigger disaster than we've ever faced and we are past the point of no return. It will only get worse year on year for us normal people here on out.

In the interests of 'best value' the petrol price will be set by the international market rates, the same as it is for gas, grain etc.

 

The government may have more control if it was nationalised but the pricing won't be much different.

 

Lets be honest, the rig workers would be on strike at the moment anyway so its a mute point.

[Foxdiamond]

2 minutes ago, kenny said:

In the interests of 'best value' the petrol price will be set by the international market rates, the same as it is for gas, grain etc.

 

The government may have more control if it was nationalised but the pricing won't be much different.

 

Lets be honest, the rig workers would be on strike at the moment anyway so its a mute point.

This mob don't govern that is the problem. The railways are privatised but that has not prevented strikes. 

[dsr-burnley]

43 minutes ago, Dames said:

No they wouldn't be making this level of profits but petrol would be half the price if not less. 

 

The problem is that a huge majority of our public services are beholden to shareholder payouts which means we get less of a service and a declining infrastructure because every single margin has to be squeezed for shareholder profit.

 

If these companies were still publicly owned, they would send a portion of the profits to the treasury and the rest would be used to reinvest.

 

Privatisation is a bigger disaster than we've ever faced and we are past the point of no return. It will only get worse year on year for us normal people here on out.

On a litre of petrol costing £1.80, 88p is tax and 92p is for the oil company.  If they halved the price, it would be 73p tax and 17p to the oil company - that's not going to happen whoever is running it.  

 

The theory of mationalising industry to save paying profits to shareholders is fine.  the practice is not.  I remember when electricity was nationalised - and I also remember the 3-day week and having candles at the ready at all times.  Whatever the faults of the privatised companies, so far at least they have been able to keep the power on.

[Foxdiamond]

4 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

On a litre of petrol costing £1.80, 88p is tax and 92p is for the oil company.  If they halved the price, it would be 73p tax and 17p to the oil company - that's not going to happen whoever is running it.  

 

The theory of mationalising industry to save paying profits to shareholders is fine.  the practice is not.  I remember when electricity was nationalised - and I also remember the 3-day week and having candles at the ready at all times.  Whatever the faults of the privatised companies, so far at least they have been able to keep the power on.

Ah yes, the 3 day week. Another useless Tory government 

[grobyfox1990]

17 minutes ago, kenny said:

In the interests of 'best value' the petrol price will be set by the international market rates, the same as it is for gas, grain etc.

 

The government may have more control if it was nationalised but the pricing won't be much different.

 

Lets be honest, the rig workers would be on strike at the moment anyway so its a mute point.

This is the thing though, our Governments are successively terrible and blame everything on chance, which it isnt. If we had used the boom years to invest in self-sufficient energy systems, or given a hint of a f4ck about the looming energy crisis coming and prepared well, prices would be a lot different. The forward and options markets exist for this reason.

 

They clearly can prepare welll when they can be arsed, look at how fantastic our vaccine rollout was in comparison to third-world countries like Australia who waited so long to get jabs in.

 

Again, if Govt manage their employees properly, they wouldn't go on strike.

[grobyfox1990]

11 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

On a litre of petrol costing £1.80, 88p is tax and 92p is for the oil company.  If they halved the price, it would be 73p tax and 17p to the oil company - that's not going to happen whoever is running it.  

 

The theory of mationalising industry to save paying profits to shareholders is fine.  the practice is not.  I remember when electricity was nationalised - and I also remember the 3-day week and having candles at the ready at all times.  Whatever the faults of the privatised companies, so far at least they have been able to keep the power on.

The practice is not fine because of chronic and chaotic mismanagement. In places like Singapore visionaries like Lee ensured robust public systems because....wait for it..... he paid staff above private sector wages so he attracted the best.

[String fellow]

1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said:

Ah yes, the 3 day week. Another useless Tory government 

In the interest of balance, don't forget that they were followed later that decade by a useless Labour government, which oversaw numerous inflation-busting wage demands by public sector workers and numerous public sector workers going on strike, culminating in the Winter of Discontent in 1978/79.

[Foxdiamond]

3 minutes ago, String fellow said:

In the interest of balance, don't forget that they were followed later that decade by a useless Labour government, which oversaw numerous inflation-busting wage demands by public sector workers and numerous public sector workers going on strike, culminating in the Winter of Discontent in 1978/79.

Agreed. Much to my regret. 

[cityfanlee23]

The hilarious part about all of this, is that we will vote for it all to continue in a GE. We never learn, and we are too scared to stand up. This will not be fixed by politicians. 

[cityfanlee23]

Dale Vince (owner of Ecotricity and Forest Green Rovers) posted this earlier. 
 

Makes sense, we won’t. We will continue to hammer consumers. Hope I’m wrong. 

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, cityfanlee23 said:

The hilarious part about all of this, is that we will vote for it all to continue in a GE. We never learn, and we are too scared to stand up. This will not be fixed by politicians. 

So who will fix it? Do we vote, don't we vote? 

[cityfanlee23]

28 minutes ago, Parafox said:

So who will fix it? Do we vote, don't we vote? 

Well the only real solution is to get rid of first past the post and bring in some form of proportional representation, and stop parachuting people into power. Ultimately though what we have now is a large parliament with a large portion of grifters and greasy pole climbers with most having their own interests that don’t align with the common citizen. If they don’t do something soon we will have civil unrest I expect. Maybe even rioting, their inability to even acknowledge any solutions that hurt billionaires will lead to civil unrest at some point down the line. 
 

I’ll rephrase, the current crop of politicians we have won’t fix anything! Well, the ones that would will never see power. Even Starmer is turning against the morals he pretended to stand on to get elected.

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Even Starmer is turning against the morals he pretended to stand on to get elected.

 

[Fightforever]

Status quo career politicians like Starmer and Biden must be living the dream. Essentially don't need to promise any change or take a position on anything because everyone (rightfully) hates the opposition more. They still get elected while offering the illusion of meaningful change. Then the likes of them can make a fat wad of cash in government. Then rinse and repeat

Edited 2 August 2022 by Fightforever

[cityfanlee23]

43 minutes ago, Daggers said:

 

I think there is definitely something to be said in the UK about the idea of adopting centrist strategy to be elected then becoming more "radical" in power, unfortunately you cannot rock the boat in this country without the billionaire media trying to rip you limb from limb, hopefully he doesn't turn his back on this position as he has seemingly done with the ones he was elected on. I guess it depends how much Mr Murdoch supports it.

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

 

Why the obsession with zero hours contracts?  What the blankety-blank are football clubs meant to do on matchdays if they can't have zero hours contracts?  Do they need to employ stewards and concession staff for eight hours per week, every week throughout the season, to cover two home games regardless of whether they are actually playing?

 

All that zero hours contracts are, is casual labour.  Second jobs.  Student jobs.  I have heard rumours that social security officials are treating zero hours contracts as if they were a "proper" job that jobseekers should be obliged to take, and if they are doing, they need a kick up the backside and told to enter the real world.  And I dare say there are employers who are misusing the system, and they need a kick up the backside as well.

 

But make no mistake - all that zero hours contracts are, is a more formalised form of casual labour, designed to stop the taxman missing out.  They are not a new working practice.

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Dale Vince (owner of Ecotricity and Forest Green Rovers) posted this earlier. 
 

Makes sense, we won’t. We will continue to hammer consumers. Hope I’m wrong. 

Western Australia has enforced a requirement on gas producers in WA to supply a certain amount to the domestic market.  No surprise this has kept costs pretty much level and way below the Eastern States.  It works, and it should be put in place.  What is the point in having these resources in the country if the country doesn't benefit.

[Lako42]

Those are our resources and the government should be ensuring we get them 1st and at a reasonable cost. 

 

They are not the property of some fat cat **** in BP towers, or at least they shouldn't be. 

 

Taking the resources from under our feet and getting filthy rich whilst we fall into the big hole they created. 

[cityfanlee23]

11 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Western Australia has enforced a requirement on gas producers in WA to supply a certain amount to the domestic market.  No surprise this has kept costs pretty much level and way below the Eastern States.  It works, and it should be put in place.  What is the point in having these resources in the country if the country doesn't benefit.

Yeah, but we love to shaft ourselves so rich people can get richer unfortunately. Dale Vince typically hits the nail on the head with most things energy/renewables.
He is currently building a plant that turns grass into gas, growing grass and when it's cut capturing the emissions, and his plant will essentially work in the same way as a cows stomach, producing gasses. Clever idea. Building is underway as we speak. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/1494837/gas-grass-plant-money-saving-switch-carbon-neutral-biomethane-climate-change

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Yeah, but we love to shaft ourselves so rich people can get richer unfortunately. Dale Vince typically hits the nail on the head with most things energy/renewables.
He is currently building a plant that turns grass into gas, growing grass and when it's cut capturing the emissions, and his plant will essentially work in the same way as a cows stomach, producing gasses. Clever idea. Building is underway as we speak. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/1494837/gas-grass-plant-money-saving-switch-carbon-neutral-biomethane-climate-change

Why does it take 3,000 acres of prime grassland in Berkshire to heat 4,000 homes, but they claim to be able to use 4.5m acres across the country to heat 14m homes?  Where's the extra efficiency coming from?