Cost of living crisis.

[Fazzer 7]

27 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

205,000 people are dead explicitly because of the government's disgraceful handling of COVID. What has the government done to earn my patience or faith in their ability to handle this?

You’re first sentence is absolute rubbish. What about  the other 5.8 million around the world. In this country the average age of those was 82 .5 years with other Comorbidities. And they still accounted for less than half of one percent. It was a pandemic, sadly people die, they did in the last one. 

[urban.spaceman]

19 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

You’re first sentence is absolute rubbish. What about  the other 5.8 million around the world. In this country the average age of those was 82 .5 years with other Comorbidities. And they still accounted for less than half of one percent. It was a pandemic, sadly people die, they did in the last one. 

My first sentence is 100% accurate and it's about time people starting holding the government accountable for their catastrophic failure.

[kenny]

15 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

My first sentence is 100% accurate and it's about time people starting holding the government accountable for their catastrophic failure.

Current stats suggest 139k excess deaths during a 2.5 year period. (England and Wales only.)

 

This means the all mortality death rate rose to a similar level of around 10 years ago.

 

Offered only to assist with the accuracy.

[urban.spaceman]

8 minutes ago, kenny said:

Current stats suggest 139k excess deaths during a 2.5 year period. (England and Wales only.)

 

This means the all mortality death rate rose to a similar level of around 10 years ago.

 

Offered only to assist with the accuracy.

Government website:

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

 

Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate

 

England - 170,528

Scotland - 15,424

Wales - 10,597

Northern Ireland - 4,808

[Legend_in_blue]

Whichever way you look at it, Ferguson was way off.  He should be held accountable too for the hysteria that followed.

[Fazzer 7]

49 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

My first sentence is 100% accurate and it's about time people starting holding the government accountable for their catastrophic failure.

Look I really don’t want to argue about this. So I’ll respectfully say we clearly disagree about this and politics in general. So that’s it from me on this. 👍🏼

[urban.spaceman]

22 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Look I really don’t want to argue about this. So I’ll respectfully say we clearly disagree about this and politics in general. So that’s it from me on this. 👍🏼

I'm not trying to argue with you I'm just pointing out the government's failures and the deaths they caused and why I believe they cannot be trusted on other issues, that's all.

[Zear0]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I'm not trying to argue with you I'm just pointing out the government's failures and the deaths they caused and why I believe they cannot be trusted on other issues, that's all.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/26/pressure-mounts-on-boris-johnson-over-alleged-let-the-bodies-pile-high-remarks

 

Don't know what you're on about frankly. 

[Otis]

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

205,000 people are dead explicitly because of the government's disgraceful handling of COVID. What has the government done to earn my patience or faith in their ability to handle this?

 

3 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

My first sentence is 100% accurate and it's about time people starting holding the government accountable for their catastrophic failure.

So to be clear, you're saying every single death from/with covid could have been prevented if the government handled things differently?

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Otis said:

 

So to be clear, you're saying every single death from/with covid could have been prevented if the government handled things differently?

No he’s saying these bumbling, fumbling idiots were constantly slow to act or made poor decisions. Which in turn will have killed people (see sending ill people back to care homes).

 

They could bumble and fumble again quite easily, they’ve proven to be a total shambles of a government.

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Target help to those who most need it. But don’t call me dumb headed for suggesting a 5% cut to vat wouldn’t  help boost the economy which is teetering on recession. It would. Axing the NI rise is dumb because the least well off don’t pay it anyway. 
 

When peoples bills are skyrocketing, I’m not sure 5% is going to suddenly make loads of people decide to go out and spend. 

[weller54]

Money for families who desperately need it to feed and keep their kids warm this winter needs to be more targeted!!..

As an example, as a pensioner I will get £500 heating allowance in November (the normal £200 plus an extra £300 help!)..

Although this is really appreciated, myself and a lot of pensioners (not all I know) don't really need that additional help!.... I would rather that extra money go to a young family or person who will be in desperate need of financial help this winter.

 

[Mr Weller 2]

6 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Like @leicsmac says, sensationalism sells. Give the gov a chance, the new PM takes the reigns next week, it will get sorted, no one will freeze to death this winter. It’s still warm, chill out man. 

You really are delusional or in denial. This is very serious indeed. 

[dsr-burnley]

8 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

In terms of quality and quantity of years lost, yes this will be worse than covid imo . Thousands of people with decades to add to the workforce may/will die

I've been googling the figures of excess deaths caused by the severe winter of 1946-47.  It froze for 3 months, the world was coming out of war, food was in short supply, coal was in even shorter supply, clothing was in short supply.  I think it;s fair to say that people then were as badly off as people this winter will be.

 

So did we lose tens of thousands of people of working age to the big freeze, as you're suggestring we will this year?  Well, if we did, I can't find any evidence.  There is evidence that 150 people (ages not specified) died in Berlin as a result of the cold weather and consequent floods, but I don't see any evidence that that translates to huge loss of life in this country.

 

Do you genuinely think that fit and healthy working people will be dropping like flies this winter?  Why do you think it will be so much worse than when we only had a shovelful of coal per day to heat the whole house?

Edited 29 August 2022 by dsr-burnley

[urban.spaceman]

4 hours ago, Otis said:

So to be clear, you're saying every single death from/with covid could have been prevented if the government handled things differently?

Not every single death. As @Babylon pointed out they made very poor decisions and took action way too late which directly contributed to the rise in spread and deaths. The actual Prime Minister missing 5 COBRA meetings, Eat Out To Help Out, late into every lockdown meaning the lockdowns had to go on longer, the colossal failure of Track and Trace, the acquisition of PPE, allowing the borders to be completely open until January 2021 and not introducing hotel quarantines until mid February 2021.

 

Johnson mocked Starmer almost every PMQs over wanting lockdowns but he was right almost every time. On 13th October 2020 Starmer was calling for an emergency 2 week circuit breaker lockdown due to the rising cases. He was ignored and mocked by Johnson in the House of Commons and in the media for two weeks. Johnson announced a month long lockdown on the 31st. Then he relaxed rules in December before having to bring in stricter ones for Christmas, and we had a full national lockdown again in January 2021 before things started lifting again in the March. Between November 1st and February 1st there were 60,000 deaths. 

[Jon the Hat]

4 hours ago, Mr Weller 2 said:

You really are delusional or in denial. This is very serious indeed. 

It is very serious, and the Tories have I think shot themselves in the foot in not responding to the recent energy cost increases.  They are playing games however, and I fully expect a huge injection of support from the new PM.  Despite her making all the noises the membership wants to hear, once she is in she needs to prepare for the next election.

[grobyfox1990]

6 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

I've been googling the figures of excess deaths caused by the severe winter of 1946-47.  It froze for 3 months, the world was coming out of war, food was in short supply, coal was in even shorter supply, clothing was in short supply.  I think it;s fair to say that people then were as badly off as people this winter will be.

 

So did we lose tens of thousands of people of working age to the big freeze, as you're suggestring we will this year?  Well, if we did, I can't find any evidence.  There is evidence that 150 people (ages not specified) died in Berlin as a result of the cold weather and consequent floods, but I don't see any evidence that that translates to huge loss of life in this country.

 

Do you genuinely think that fit and healthy working people will be dropping like flies this winter?  Why do you think it will be so much worse than when we only had a shovelful of coal per day to heat the whole house?

I have no idea about winter 1946, so long ago and such a different world it’s incomparable, apples and oranges as they say. If a measure of success is less people dying than a winter nearly 80 years ago then my god we have stuffed things up. My comment was in regard to deaths during covid.

 

I don’t think people will be dropping like flies, but more productive years will be lost during this crisis that will stretch on for years than during Covid (average age of death 80?!) No figures suggest anything other than genuine hardship from 1 jan onwards, many people don’t realise this, and these figures aren’t produced by paid attention seekers like Ferguson 

[fox_up_north]

Just to give an example for Fazzer as to what kind of people are nervous and the knock-on. Full cards on the table.

 

I earn a touch over £30,000 a year, I work from home, I live with a partner in a 3(ish) bed semi and my outgoings per month are around £500-600 a month. Our usage is a few thousand kWh lower than average per year.

 

Yet, I am tightening my belt. I am not going to the pub or to restaurants. We are actively spending less because of the long term impact on finances because we want to be prudent and precautious. 

 

In the last year, our energy bill has risen by nearly double and there is absolutely no evidence that it will lower to even levels of Spring 2021. This is not based on anything by the media but based on our actual experience.

 

My concern is also that the company I work for has all sorts of contracts and links with other companies that have no cap on electricity. EG: restaurants, offices, etc. If they struggle to keep the lights on, the contracts end and I could lose my job. 

 

This isn't just down to "oh, keep the heating down". Think of Dave who is a shift manager in a pub, earns £20k a year and has a child. He MIGHT be able to afford to keep his family warm and fed but his business is getting hammered by rising costs that they have to send him part time, as well as fewer customers because everyone is so worried about spending. 

 

 

TLDR version: It's a great big house of cards.

[Lionator]

5 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It is very serious, and the Tories have I think shot themselves in the foot in not responding to the recent energy cost increases.  They are playing games however, and I fully expect a huge injection of support from the new PM.  Despite her making all the noises the membership wants to hear, once she is in she needs to prepare for the next election.

This is what annoys me about modern politics, even in a situation as severe as this, it’s about preparing the next election and looking good to the voter. I’d love it if for once if we had a PM who did stuff because it was the right thing to do. 

[Bilsthorpe Blue]

Does anyone know what percentage of our electricity comes from either wind turbines or solar panels?, 

It's just that I haven't seen an increase in cost for sun or wind

[Soup]

Slowly but surely people are having the life sucked out of them. We should be fighting this but as usual we seem to be fighting amongst ourselves, funny that. 

[Babylon]

10 hours ago, weller54 said:

Money for families who desperately need it to feed and keep their kids warm this winter needs to be more targeted!!..

As an example, as a pensioner I will get £500 heating allowance in November (the normal £200 plus an extra £300 help!)..

Although this is really appreciated, myself and a lot of pensioners (not all I know) don't really need that additional help!.... I would rather that extra money go to a young family or person who will be in desperate need of financial help this winter.

It does, and if it was easy to implement then I'm sure the government would means test it. But, their mechanisms for checking stuff like that are useless and basically rely mostly on honesty. 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

Just to give an example for Fazzer as to what kind of people are nervous and the knock-on. Full cards on the table.

 

I earn a touch over £30,000 a year, I work from home, I live with a partner in a 3(ish) bed semi and my outgoings per month are around £500-600 a month. Our usage is a few thousand kWh lower than average per year.

 

Yet, I am tightening my belt. I am not going to the pub or to restaurants. We are actively spending less because of the long term impact on finances because we want to be prudent and precautious. 

 

In the last year, our energy bill has risen by nearly double and there is absolutely no evidence that it will lower to even levels of Spring 2021. This is not based on anything by the media but based on our actual experience.

 

My concern is also that the company I work for has all sorts of contracts and links with other companies that have no cap on electricity. EG: restaurants, offices, etc. If they struggle to keep the lights on, the contracts end and I could lose my job. 

 

This isn't just down to "oh, keep the heating down". Think of Dave who is a shift manager in a pub, earns £20k a year and has a child. He MIGHT be able to afford to keep his family warm and fed but his business is getting hammered by rising costs that they have to send him part time, as well as fewer customers because everyone is so worried about spending. 

 

 

TLDR version: It's a great big house of cards.

This is my concern, I'm self employed and fairly comfortable to the point of the rises don't really impact me greatly (outside of less cash in my pocket). But that could soon change when half of my customer base either closes or stops paying me, because they need to cut back. 

 

There was a twitter post yesterday about a small Cafe in Leicester, their gas and electric bill was going from something like £10,000 a year to £55,000 a year. And they were basically coming to the conclusion they would just have to close. 

 

Lord of the flies, coming soon to a country near you. 

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, Soup said:

Slowly but surely people are having the life sucked out of them. We should be fighting this but as usual we seem to be fighting amongst ourselves, funny that. 

It's almost like that's what they've planned isn't it. The amount of posts I see blaming immigrants defies belief. 

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I have no idea about winter 1946, so long ago and such a different world it’s incomparable, apples and oranges as they say. If a measure of success is less people dying than a winter nearly 80 years ago then my god we have stuffed things up. My comment was in regard to deaths during covid.

 

I don’t think people will be dropping like flies, but more productive years will be lost during this crisis that will stretch on for years than during Covid (average age of death 80?!) No figures suggest anything other than genuine hardship from 1 jan onwards, many people don’t realise this, and these figures aren’t produced by paid attention seekers like Ferguson 

That's not my point.  My point is that in 1947, when it was very very cold and there was a severe shortage of power, there was no reported increase in deaths of people of working age.  You claim that this year, whether it's cold or not, there will be many deaths.  Why will so many people die?  I can see no evidence that they would.

Edited 30 August 2022 by dsr-burnley