Cost of living crisis.

[leicsmac]

46 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Plus middle aged middle class white men politicians who don’t believe climate change is real because it was well hot in 1976 then well cold in 1977. We genuinely have a ‘net zero scrutiny group’ led by elected officials in our country. Madness. Jacob Rees m0ng actually thinks fracking is the answer!! 

Tbf it isn't just that demographic that has a problem with that particular piece of scientific ignorance, but yes.

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

We have invested more in green energy though, we pay a levy to build wind farms etc, but we are not seeing the benefits of it. We have the largest wind farms in the world which now produce 26% of our electricity, we were buying 3% of our gas from Russia, and that i suspect is something to do with trading with Russia as they don't have much else to offer, so with the government using the war in Ukraine as an excuse for our problems is [deleted]. Why are the people of the UK paying more for energy than 99% of all the other countries in the world? It's either Dick Turpin with his finger in the pie or the governmet have finacially crippled the country and have to balance the books before the next election before anyone finds out. 

When Russia cuts off the gas, their customers immediately need to look to other sources to buy gas.  The global supply has decreased, so global prices rise.

 

Imagine if Sainsbury's ran out of toilet rolls.  It doesn't mean Tesco customers aren't affected, because Sainsbury's customers will go to Tesco and buy toilet rolls from there.  One supplier fails, all customers are affected.

[yorkie1999]

6 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

When Russia cuts off the gas, their customers immediately need to look to other sources to buy gas.  The global supply has decreased, so global prices rise.

 

Imagine if Sainsbury's ran out of toilet rolls.  It doesn't mean Tesco customers aren't affected, because Sainsbury's customers will go to Tesco and buy toilet rolls from there.  One supplier fails, all customers are affected.

Does it work like that though? i would have thought an energy supplier would have signed a contract to purchase from a producer at an agreed price for a set length of time.

[dsr-burnley]

59 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Does it work like that though? i would have thought an energy supplier would have signed a contract to purchase from a producer at an agreed price for a set length of time.

https://theconversation.com/energy-crisis-why-the-uk-will-be-at-the-mercy-of-international-gas-prices-for-years-to-come-186069

Unfortunately no.  Most of Europe has taken a short term view over gas prices and so has not got long-term contracts in place.

[yorkie1999]

52 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

https://theconversation.com/energy-crisis-why-the-uk-will-be-at-the-mercy-of-international-gas-prices-for-years-to-come-186069

Unfortunately no.  Most of Europe has taken a short term view over gas prices and so has not got long-term contracts in place.

Time to get in bed with Putin then.

[dsr-burnley]

13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Time to get in bed with Putin then.

"I have in my hand a piece of paper ..."  

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

"I have in my hand a piece of paper ..."  

i have on my iphone a text message

[dsr-burnley]

28 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

i have on my iphone a text message

And the principle is the same now as it was with Chamberlain's paper.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

And the principle is the same now as it was with Chamberlain's paper.

The principle is of course the same, but the practice of such grand strategy and diplomacy has changed a bit since Chamberlain's time - thanks to one thing, that being nuclear weaponry.

[Dahnsouff]

Raise the Personal Allowance to 16k

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

Don't know how it'll work but if Truss' plan unveil later goes as expected, BBC are reporting the new cap for (typical) UK household energy costs will be £2,500 per year, which is a hell of a lot easier to swallow than the £3,500+ rise announced for October. Glad I didn't fix with EOn 

Edited 8 September 2022 by Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo

[yorkie1999]

39 minutes ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

Don't know how it'll work but if Truss' plan unveil later goes as expected, BBC are reporting the new cap for (typical) UK household energy costs will be £2,500 per year, which is a hell of a lot easier to swallow than the £3,500+ rise announced for October. Glad I didn't fix with EOn 

I’m Confused as to how this cap thing works. Obviously it’s not a cap in the sense that’s the maximum the average household will pay, so as far as I can work out it’s basically a cap on the unit price per kw times the amount the average household uses. My dd was 200 a month before it went up, and I can see on my bill that the unit price has increased, so as far as I can understand it, with a 2500 cap, my actual unit price will go back down to what it was pre April and I’m going to get a 400 quid handout to help for for it. Confused!

[FoxesDeb]

13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I’m Confused as to how this cap thing works. Obviously it’s not a cap in the sense that’s the maximum the average household will pay, so as far as I can work out it’s basically a cap on the unit price per kw times the amount the average household uses. My dd was 200 a month before it went up, and I can see on my bill that the unit price has increased, so as far as I can understand it, with a 2500 cap, my actual unit price will go back down to what it was pre April and I’m going to get a 400 quid handout to help for for it. Confused!

The current cap in £1971, so it can still increase to £2500, but no more. Pre April it was £1277 so it's going to be around double, it's not going to be reduced. 

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I’m Confused as to how this cap thing works. Obviously it’s not a cap in the sense that’s the maximum the average household will pay, so as far as I can work out it’s basically a cap on the unit price per kw times the amount the average household uses. My dd was 200 a month before it went up, and I can see on my bill that the unit price has increased, so as far as I can understand it, with a 2500 cap, my actual unit price will go back down to what it was pre April and I’m going to get a 400 quid handout to help for for it. Confused!

 

It is confusing, but from what I understand they give the figures as typical household bills to make it simpler than giving the actual cost per unit, as that can be tricky to work out for some.

 

I might be wrong, but from what I gather the "typical" house pays just shy of £2,000 p/y since the big April price cap increase, it was due to go up to £3,550 in October - an 80% increase

If the reporting is correct and Truss confirms the new cap (for typical houses) will be £2,500, then we're only looking at a circa 25% increase

 

If we go by the £200 per month you're paying, then without Truss' intervention, you'd be looking at paying about £380 a month (on a flexible tariff)

Instead, you could be looking at £250 with a bit of luck

 

And before anyone mentions I've said "only", and 25% increase is still a lot - it's looking a hell of a lot less bleak than was predicted. There'll almost certainly be slight tax increases elsewhere, but having the original 80% hike would have thrown so many households into chaos. It can be really hard to live within your means sometimes, so having a small chunk added onto your energy bill (rather than it being almost doubled overnight) will mean people should largely be able to adjust. I for one was absolutely dreading the 80% increase

 

There is talk of new caps for businesses too (that never existed) so that can only be good news for business owners and consumers alike

 

Also - the £400 rebate will still be given out, so you'll get a bit knocked off your bill for the first few months from October

[dsr-burnley]

45 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I’m Confused as to how this cap thing works. Obviously it’s not a cap in the sense that’s the maximum the average household will pay, so as far as I can work out it’s basically a cap on the unit price per kw times the amount the average household uses. My dd was 200 a month before it went up, and I can see on my bill that the unit price has increased, so as far as I can understand it, with a 2500 cap, my actual unit price will go back down to what it was pre April and I’m going to get a 400 quid handout to help for for it. Confused!

The cap is on the price per kilowatt hour, so people who use more will still pay more than the "cap" as reported by the news programmes.  they put the cap into annual prices per average household to make it simpler, and they don't tell us that's what they've done (presumably because they think we're all so simple that we couldn't understand it).

[Leicester_Loyal]

They make it much more complicated than it needs to be.

[Crinklyfox]

3 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

The current cap in £1971, so it can still increase to £2500, but no more. Pre April it was £1277 so it's going to be around double, it's not going to be reduced. 

I'm confused as well.  I'm currently being charged £3000 per annum (double my previous charge) so I am being charged well in excess of the £1971.  My account is unsurprisingly in credit.  How does the cap work?

[FoxesDeb]

18 minutes ago, Crinklyfox said:

I'm confused as well.  I'm currently being charged £3000 per annum (double my previous charge) so I am being charged well in excess of the £1971.  My account is unsurprisingly in credit.  How does the cap work?

The actual price cap is a cap on the price that energy suppliers can charge for the unit rate and standing charge. The price in pounds they talk about is just based on the average bill, people will always pay for their actual usage though so many will pay more than the average bill.

 

Does that make sense? 

[Crinklyfox]

Just now, FoxesDeb said:

The actual price cap is a cap on the price that energy suppliers can charge for the unit rate and standing charge. The price in pounds they talk about is just based on the average bill, people will always pay for their actual usage though so many will pay more than the average bill.

 

Does that make sense? 

Thanks Deb.  The bottom line is that my energy supplier can seemingly charge whatever they deem necessary, and it's the same for everybody.  They've been quite happy to charge me what I think is a rate well over the odds and there's not a thing I can do about it.  My account with them is well in credit but I don't have an option to reduce my monthly charge.  If I were a single pensioner I'd be in dead trouble, fortunately there's two pensions to cover the cost.

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, Crinklyfox said:

Thanks Deb.  The bottom line is that my energy supplier can seemingly charge whatever they deem necessary, and it's the same for everybody.  They've been quite happy to charge me what I think is a rate well over the odds and there's not a thing I can do about it.  My account with them is well in credit but I don't have an option to reduce my monthly charge.  If I were a single pensioner I'd be in dead trouble, fortunately there's two pensions to cover the cost.

At the current price cap the maximum they can charge on a standard variable rate is 28p per kwh for electricity, 7p pkwh for gas, and standing charges of 45p per day for elec and 27p for gas. This apparently equates to the just under 2000 pound we talk about as the price cap at present. Once this increases to the 2500 announced by Liz Truss, these rates will also increase. 

 

Fixed tariffs aren't covered by the price cap, so there will be some people who have potentially fixed higher than the new cap will be, to protect themselves from what we were warned the cap would rise to in October. 

 

Oh and apologies, I have no pound sign on my laptop 

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

 

It is confusing, but from what I understand they give the figures as typical household bills to make it simpler than giving the actual cost per unit, as that can be tricky to work out for some.

 

I might be wrong, but from what I gather the "typical" house pays just shy of £2,000 p/y since the big April price cap increase, it was due to go up to £3,550 in October - an 80% increase

If the reporting is correct and Truss confirms the new cap (for typical houses) will be £2,500, then we're only looking at a circa 25% increase

 

If we go by the £200 per month you're paying, then without Truss' intervention, you'd be looking at paying about £380 a month (on a flexible tariff)

Instead, you could be looking at £250 with a bit of luck

 

And before anyone mentions I've said "only", and 25% increase is still a lot - it's looking a hell of a lot less bleak than was predicted. There'll almost certainly be slight tax increases elsewhere, but having the original 80% hike would have thrown so many households into chaos. It can be really hard to live within your means sometimes, so having a small chunk added onto your energy bill (rather than it being almost doubled overnight) will mean people should largely be able to adjust. I for one was absolutely dreading the 80% increase

 

There is talk of new caps for businesses too (that never existed) so that can only be good news for business owners and consumers alike

 

Also - the £400 rebate will still be given out, so you'll get a bit knocked off your bill for the first few months from October

Since all this started we've been actively taking measures to reduce our usage, boiler only in use for 60 minutes a day, which is all we need for hot water, and lots of other little things like leds throughout, smart sockets, and working out the best times to get what we can from solar panels (although i've just found out about solar diverters that divert the power to the imersion heater instead of back into the grid when your not using it meaning i could get free hot water) , that and my daughter moving out i was actually expecting it to come down, my smart meter is telling me about 20 quid a week and that's with the new rates. I hope all these cost increases actually make people more concious of what energy they actually use, if nothing else but a big fvck you to the energy suppliers.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

16 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Since all this started we've been actively taking measures to reduce our usage, boiler only in use for 60 minutes a day, which is all we need for hot water, and lots of other little things like leds throughout, smart sockets, and working out the best times to get what we can from solar panels (although i've just found out about solar diverters that divert the power to the imersion heater instead of back into the grid when your not using it meaning i could get free hot water) , that and my daughter moving out i was actually expecting it to come down, my smart meter is telling me about 20 quid a week and that's with the new rates. I hope all these cost increases actually make people more concious of what energy they actually use, if nothing else but a big fvck you to the energy suppliers.

 

Yeah I'm definitely more conscious about usage - especially as I work from home 90% of the time. The trouble is in spring/summer it's pretty easy as you rarely need the heating on or lights on in daytime, but as soon as we hit late October/early November it's dark and cold pretty much all day every day, then your hand is forced unless you live in a really well-insulated house

[kenny]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Since all this started we've been actively taking measures to reduce our usage, boiler only in use for 60 minutes a day, which is all we need for hot water, and lots of other little things like leds throughout, smart sockets, and working out the best times to get what we can from solar panels (although i've just found out about solar diverters that divert the power to the imersion heater instead of back into the grid when your not using it meaning i could get free hot water) , that and my daughter moving out i was actually expecting it to come down, my smart meter is telling me about 20 quid a week and that's with the new rates. I hope all these cost increases actually make people more concious of what energy they actually use, if nothing else but a big fvck you to the energy suppliers.

Do you have a diverter? It's hard to see how it pays for itself if it costs £400.

 

Deb's figures above say that gas is 7p to heat the water and we get 4.8p if we sell unused electricity. The difference is surely too minimal to get the payback?

[yorkie1999]

24 minutes ago, kenny said:

Do you have a diverter? It's hard to see how it pays for itself if it costs £400.

 

Deb's figures above say that gas is 7p to heat the water and we get 4.8p if we sell unused electricity. The difference is surely too minimal to get the payback?

I don't think using gas works like that, correct me if i'm wrong, but a tank of hot water uses about 8kw of gas to heat up, so the boiler turns up the amount of gas required, and an imersion heater at 3kw, uses 3kw until the water gets to a temperature then shuts off with a thermostat. so 7p at 8kwh is 56p and 28p at 3kwh is 84p, but according to to the october cap it's going up to 14p and 50p, 98p and £1.50, which seems odd considering there's suppossed to be a shortage of gas.

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I don't think using gas works like that, correct me if i'm wrong, but a tank of hot water uses about 8kw of gas to heat up, so the boiler turns up the amount of gas required, and an imersion heater at 3kw, uses 3kw until the water gets to a temperature then shuts off with a thermostat. so 7p at 8kwh is 56p and 28p at 3kwh is 84p, but according to to the october cap it's going up to 14p and 50p, 98p and £1.50, which seems odd considering there's suppossed to be a shortage of gas.

I get that. When we are out we use 0.3kwh, so our whole house including the immersion is hardly using anything.

 

I like the idea of not selling electricty to the robbing electric companies, but another £400 I doubt ill get back is probably a silly investment.