Cost of living crisis.

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, rachhere said:

I am sure someone working in a school will be able to come along and give a better explanation, but from the top of my head:

- schools were never closed during Covid as they supported kids from key worker families 

- schools are having to pick up the bill for increased wages, and aren’t receiving anything extra for this

- whilst no doubt schools will benefit from fuel measures brought it, just like every household, business or community service they are feeling it

- more and more responsibility is being placed on schools, such as providing mental health support, more in house careers support, and making up for shortfalls in funding for kids with SEND

- more and more teachers going off with stress, meaning they are having to pay for supply cover

 

 

A few schools stayed open, other schools closed.  The key worker children didn't all stay at their own schools, in their own classrooms.  There was no need to heat whole buildings for the sake of the numbers attending.

 

Like I say, I'm not aware that teachers have received inflation-busting wage increases.  If their wages have increased approximately in line with inflation, then schools don't need anything extra to pay for it - remember that these figures are inflation adjusted.

 

As for the rest, there is a lot wrong with the modern attitude to childcare nowadays.  It would be a whole different subject.  As would the subject of stress and its causes.

[yorkie1999]

31 minutes ago, rachhere said:

For balance, I know many people working in educational services based in local authorities who are at absolute breaking point and work incredibly hard long hours. 

I know, my brothers was a teacher but got out of it and went teaching in special needs. Too many unanswerable people hiding behind doors and secretaries with no comeback for giving out any discipline and we all know if you give a kid an inch they’ll take a mile cos that’s what they do. A teacher wants to teach not be a second parent and apparently in special needs, the children are happy to learn so you don’t get the hassles and if a child is disruptive, something can be done because there’s actually a medical reason for it.

[westernpark]

Two things that I don’t think have been mentioned regarding schools and their rising cost. 
Schools get fined for excluding children, this has led to some schools deciding not to exclude children for rather dangerous and or unacceptable forms of behaviour and employ forms of safeguarding to protect the child and others.

Another consideration is the lack of money parents will have over the next few months, due to many crises, this will likely mean the child and parent will become more reliant on the school for help and look for the school to bridge the gap. Regardless of whether it is good or clothing, or even childcare. For many the school is seen as a symbol of the state (a state run by those unlikely to ever attend those schools, yes I know Truss went to one), thus there is an understandable lack of consideration of the school having an unlimited pot of money.

 

[Daggers]

I was unaware that Sports Interactive had released School Manager as the long awaited follow up to Football Manager.

 

Everyday is literally a school day.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Daggers said:

You think they’d just get the kids to draw more money during art, eh. Or maybe they could manufacture coins in D&T. And there’s a veritable goldmine in extracting organs during Biology which the business studies kids could then sell on social media. 

Nicking this idea for a screenplay.

[urban.spaceman]

Re: teachers, they're currently leaving in their droves.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/11/teachers-england-plan-to-quit-workloads-stress-trust

[Vlad the Fox]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Re: teachers, they're currently leaving in their droves.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/11/teachers-england-plan-to-quit-workloads-stress-trust

This is a looming crisis that has been going on for a while now and needs addressing. Such is government though that I doubt anything will be done until it hits critical. 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Re: teachers, they're currently leaving in their droves.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/11/teachers-england-plan-to-quit-workloads-stress-trust

 

9 minutes ago, Vlad the Fox said:

This is a looming crisis that has been going on for a while now and needs addressing. Such is government though that I doubt anything will be done until it hits critical. 

Yep, it's an ongoing issue.

 

Teaching is a job that requires skill and patience among other things and there are currently far better opportunities for people with the level of talent and motivation required for it. The job needs to be made more attractive.

[urban.spaceman]

22 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Yep, it's an ongoing issue.

 

Teaching is a job that requires skill and patience among other things and there are currently far better opportunities for people with the level of talent and motivation required for it. The job needs to be made more attractive.

Friend of mine went through years of infertility, suffering about 6 miscarriages over the years. The school she taught at treated her like utter shit throughout, not just adding to her workload but really scrutinising her work and not supporting her with parental disputes and barely acknowledging what she was going through. She'd have a glowing OFSTED report and then the school would do a surprise internal inspection the next week with much harsher criteria and distrust. She ended up giving up on ever having children of her own and adopted with her husband, taking a year off for maternity then going part time back. 5 years later and she's finally left the school for something else part time, much less money but much much less stress.

 

And lo and behold, out of the blue, she's pregnant! Everything is healthy and going really well. Not exactly a scientific observation but I'm pretty sure her fertility issues were down to being a teacher. It's no surprise to me that so many people are leaving if they're being treated so badly.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Friend of mine went through years of infertility, suffering about 6 miscarriages over the years. The school she taught at treated her like utter shit throughout, not just adding to her workload but really scrutinising her work and not supporting her with parental disputes and barely acknowledging what she was going through. She'd have a glowing OFSTED report and then the school would do a surprise internal inspection the next week with much harsher criteria and distrust. She ended up giving up on ever having children of her own and adopted with her husband, taking a year off for maternity then going part time back. 5 years later and she's finally left the school for something else part time, much less money but much much less stress.

 

And lo and behold, out of the blue, she's pregnant! Everything is healthy and going really well. Not exactly a scientific observation but I'm pretty sure her fertility issues were down to being a teacher. It's no surprise to me that so many people are leaving if they're being treated so badly.

That is very sad but not really surprising to me.

 

There need to be much, much better incentives for people to get into teaching. It would also help if people who know precious little about the profession, the people who work within it, and its value to them and to the wider world wouldn't disparage it, too.

[kenny]

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Friend of mine went through years of infertility, suffering about 6 miscarriages over the years. The school she taught at treated her like utter shit throughout, not just adding to her workload but really scrutinising her work and not supporting her with parental disputes and barely acknowledging what she was going through. She'd have a glowing OFSTED report and then the school would do a surprise internal inspection the next week with much harsher criteria and distrust. She ended up giving up on ever having children of her own and adopted with her husband, taking a year off for maternity then going part time back. 5 years later and she's finally left the school for something else part time, much less money but much much less stress.

 

And lo and behold, out of the blue, she's pregnant! Everything is healthy and going really well. Not exactly a scientific observation but I'm pretty sure her fertility issues were down to being a teacher. It's no surprise to me that so many people are leaving if they're being treated so badly.

Many schools treat their teachers really badly and I'm not surprised by this story.

 

A secondary school typically employs 100-200 people yet has no HR manager and relies on the teachers to mentor each other and ensure that the staff are treated properly.

 

A similar business of that size would have a team of HR staff to ensure that it complies with the law and treats it's staff well.

 

[Daggers]

29 minutes ago, kenny said:

Many schools treat their teachers really badly and I'm not surprised by this story.

 

A secondary school typically employs 100-200 people yet has no HR manager and relies on the teachers to mentor each other and ensure that the staff are treated properly.

 

A similar business of that size would have a team of HR staff to ensure that it complies with the law and treats it's staff well.

 

Are you aware that this is complete horseshit and don't care or are you simply repeating some misinformation you heard in a pub and attempting to pass it off as professional insight?

• All Trusts have HR departments.
• All remaining LEA schools have HR departments.

Staff do not mentor each other to ensure 'proper treatment' (whatever that means). Professional mentoring is a completely different matter.

 

 

[kenny]

19 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Are you aware that this is complete horseshit and don't care or are you simply repeating some misinformation you heard in a pub and attempting to pass it off as professional insight?

• All Trusts have HR departments.
• All remaining LEA schools have HR departments.

Staff do not mentor each other to ensure 'proper treatment' (whatever that means). Professional mentoring is a completely different matter.

 

 

I don't recall hearing this at a pub. Good guess though.

 

Just from my work for and around academies as well as independent schools. Plus I have family members that are teachers that have received sizable payouts due to ill treatment in the workplace.

[The People's Hero]

I know four teachers (that I can think of; but probably more) and of those four, three of them have received payouts as described above; that's something three of them have in common. What all four have in common is the absolute conviction that teaching is the only worthwhile profession and everyone else is a disgusting money obsessed salary-chaser. Actually, just thought of a fifth, and they are alright to be fair, although I do wonder how good a teacher they are as they are definitely of below average intelligence (and they don't teach PE).

 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

I know four teachers (that I can think of; but probably more) and of those four, three of them have received payouts as described above; that's something three of them have in common. What all four have in common is the absolute conviction that teaching is the only worthwhile profession and everyone else is a disgusting money obsessed salary-chaser. Actually, just thought of a fifth, and they are alright to be fair, although I do wonder how good a teacher they are as they are definitely of below average intelligence (and they don't teach PE).

 

That's a damn shame, they're wrong there.

 

There are quite a few jobs besides teaching that don't involve being a money-grubbing SOB and have some honesty of purpose behind at least most of their action: NPO charity worker, care home staff, public sector research scientist, porn movie cameraman... to name a few.

[yorkie1999]

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Re: teachers, they're currently leaving in their droves.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/11/teachers-england-plan-to-quit-workloads-stress-trust

Plan to leave in their droves., thing is, if you've basically been in a classroom you're whole life, it ain't that easy once you get on the outside.

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That's a damn shame, they're wrong there.

 

There are quite a few jobs besides teaching that don't involve being a money-grubbing SOB and have some honesty of purpose behind at least most of their action: NPO charity worker, care home staff, public sector research scientist, porn movie cameraman... to name a few.

Engineer!, oh what i'd give to be a porn movie cameraman, the ultimate job, that or a submarine washer, or a bed-tester.

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, kenny said:

I don't recall hearing this at a pub. Good guess though.

 

Just from my work for and around academies as well as independent schools. Plus I have family members that are teachers that have received sizable payouts due to ill treatment in the workplace.

My extensive experience being a teacher and senior manager says completely differently to your second-hand knowledge.

[kenny]

15 minutes ago, Daggers said:

My extensive experience being a teacher and senior manager says completely differently to your second-hand knowledge.

Fair enough.

 

You obviously work at a very well run school which is a credit to you I am sure.

 

I'm not sure that applies to all schools, though I'm sure you know better.

[Tim'llFixIt]

6 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

A few schools stayed open, other schools closed.  The key worker children didn't all stay at their own schools, in their own classrooms.  There was no need to heat whole buildings for the sake of the numbers attending.

 

Like I say, I'm not aware that teachers have received inflation-busting wage increases.  If their wages have increased approximately in line with inflation, then schools don't need anything extra to pay for it - remember that these figures are inflation adjusted.

 

As for the rest, there is a lot wrong with the modern attitude to childcare nowadays.  It would be a whole different subject.  As would the subject of stress and its causes.

I have not heard of a single case of some schools closing and sending children to another locally not one there are many safeguarding reason behind this for starters, if it had happened it is a miniscule minority.

 

The heating the whole building malarkey is a joke too, with the social distancing measures in place most classrooms were used to ensure guidelines were followed.

 

Secondly school budgets have not been increased in line with inflation and this is not taking into account rising energy costs or wage increases for all staff.

 

Any money saved during lockdown was also most likely spend on helping to close the gap that the children suffered to the teaching time lost during covid.

 

You're clearly not aware of any of the intricacies of the running of a school or "Childcare" as you reference so just stop talking absolutely nonsense.

[Tim'llFixIt]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Plan to leave in their droves., thing is, if you've basically been in a classroom you're whole life, it ain't that easy once you get on the outside.

Do tell 

[dsr-burnley]

6 hours ago, Tim'llFixIt said:

I have not heard of a single case of some schools closing and sending children to another locally not one there are many safeguarding reason behind this for starters, if it had happened it is a miniscule minority.

 

The heating the whole building malarkey is a joke too, with the social distancing measures in place most classrooms were used to ensure guidelines were followed.

 

Secondly school budgets have not been increased in line with inflation and this is not taking into account rising energy costs or wage increases for all staff.

 

Any money saved during lockdown was also most likely spend on helping to close the gap that the children suffered to the teaching time lost during covid.

 

You're clearly not aware of any of the intricacies of the running of a school or "Childcare" as you reference so just stop talking absolutely nonsense.

Safeguarding issues? What issues? Surely a teacher with police clearance is cleared for all children, not just a few? 

 

As for the number of classrooms in use, perhaps you're right. Not about all schools remaining open, because they didn't. Not nationally.  Perhaps they did in Leicester. But they will also save fuel by closing the windows this winter. They couldn't do that under covid rules. 

 

As for budgets not increasing, there we will just have to disagree. I quoted the official government figures, but your unevidenced and unlinked statement may of course be more accurate. Do you have a link? 

[Sly]

13 hours ago, leicsmac said:

That's a damn shame, they're wrong there.

 

There are quite a few jobs besides teaching that don't involve being a money-grubbing SOB and have some honesty of purpose behind at least most of their action: NPO charity worker, care home staff, public sector research scientist, porn movie cameraman... to name a few.

I’ll confess I’m a money grabbing SOB as I wanted to be a teacher or a policeman when I was around 10 years old. By the time I was nearing the end of my education, I’d read loses I could earn around 5 - 6 times more in terms of salary doing something else that I also wouldn’t enjoy. 

[Sly]

Any good business, like a homeowner will look to budget and cut costs. The squeeze it’s assets (employees included) to get the most value from them.
 

Local Authorities seem terrible at doing this. 
 

My experience is that public schools are so much better at this, however are just majorly underfunded when you compare the output requirements with the budgets they are given to work with. People pedal the “they get the summer off” etc, which they need after the emotional rollercoaster of being a 2nd parent for most of the year. 

[Tommy G]

Not surprising teachers want to leave in droves - their pay is crap and despite the holidays and classroms finishing at 3 it isn't an easy job. Pension I guess used to be an attraction but I personally wouldnt want 30 years teaching kids to end up on a 25K a year pension.