Soyuncu

[Matt_Lcfc]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

We don’t see him in training though, do we? Caglar has a massive love in on here, well beyond what he has ever shown, pretty sure it comes from his recklessness

Of course we don’t. Having said that, formulating an opinion based on what we have seen on the pitch bears relevance. 
 

I’m picking Soyuncu over Amartey every time, he has his downfalls but look at the goals we have conceded this season. The defending from Amartey against Brentford and Southampton was ridiculously bad.

[SafewayFox]

1 minute ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

If we're starting Amartey after the Man Utd game then relegation is 100% happening.  It's as simple as that.

I so agree!

 

Big Dan is not our hero, Rodgers even called him out when talking about Sterling’s goal outside the box, so fingers crossed.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Of course we don’t. Having said that, formulating an opinion based on what we have seen on the pitch bears relevance. 
 

I’m picking Soyuncu over Amartey every time, he has his downfalls but look at the goals we have conceded this season. The defending from Amartey against Brentford and Southampton was ridiculously bad.

The lack of quality shown by Amartey is a serious problem, this lack of ability (let’s be honest) is a massive problem for this team, and Amartey has unquestionably cost us points all on his own. However, if Amartey then tries in training and looks decent, but Soyuncu won’t sign a contract, doesn’t try in training, what would you do?

 

Cags was certainly better than Amartey, this is not a debate in my mind, but….what Cags do we now see? The fact he won’t sign a new contract must contribute, coupled with a reported lesser showing in training, makes it a difficult situation.

 

Obviously I do not know he does not try in training, he may, perhaps Rodgers has an issue with him he cannot overcome and it is all on Rodgers.  

[turtmcfly]

15 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The lack of quality shown by Amartey is a serious problem, this lack of ability (let’s be honest) is a massive problem for this team, and Amartey has unquestionably cost us points all on his own. However, if Amartey then tries in training and looks decent, but Soyuncu won’t sign a contract, doesn’t try in training, what would you do?

 

Cags was certainly better than Amartey, this is not a debate in my mind, but….what Cags do we now see? The fact he won’t sign a new contract must contribute, coupled with a reported lesser showing in training, makes it a difficult situation.

 

Obviously I do not know he does not try in training, he may, perhaps Rodgers has an issue with him he cannot overcome and it is all on Rodgers.  

 

What timeframe does 'was' cover?

 

If anyone wants a reminder as to why Amartey starting over Cags was much less a topic of debate last season, flicking forward from here helps (and that's before you get into any potential 'attitude' issues).

 

 

[Silebyfox_89]

Lock this thread. 

 

Doesn't seem to be any credible transfer news for Cags.

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

What timeframe does 'was' cover?

 

If anyone wants a reminder as to why Amartey starting over Cags was much less a topic of debate last season, flicking forward from here helps (and that's before you get into any potential 'attitude' issues).

 

 

In contemporary judgements based on the last 18 months, he has been below the standards we have seen him capable of - isn’t that enough? Or do we have give more time, but that’s surely only viable should he sign a new contract?

 

It may be that Brendan has let Soyuncu down, it may not, but either way, neither cause helps us as a club 

[desertfox2]

36 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Of course we don’t. Having said that, formulating an opinion based on what we have seen on the pitch bears relevance. 
 

I’m picking Soyuncu over Amartey every time, he has his downfalls but look at the goals we have conceded this season. The defending from Amartey against Brentford and Southampton was ridiculously bad.

If he's putting in no effort in training and seems like he wants to be elsewhere though then how can you pick him and what kind of message would that send the rest of the squad?

[turtmcfly]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

In contemporary judgements based on the last 18 months, he has been below the standards we have seen him capable of - isn’t that enough? Or do we have give more time, but that’s surely only viable should he sign a new contract?

 

It may be that Brendan has let Soyuncu down, it may not, but either way, neither cause helps us as a club 

 

Not sure how contemporary (in footballing terms) 18 months is, but I'd say for half of those 'playing' months he's not been better than Amartey. I note your absence in that thread from at least August to February, then I notice your overall post count, and wonder why a clearly not very shy guy didn't have much to say on the subject.

 

I think the howls about it being 'unbelievable' Dan gets the nod are revisionist nonsense. But so are the claims that if Amartey was to stay CB we'd get relegated whatever else happened on the pitch, or the idea that Soyuncu (Soyuncu!) would be an error free rock at the back.

 

And again, that's without bringing attitude/temperament into it.

 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

Not sure how contemporary (in footballing terms) 18 months is, but I'd say for half of those 'playing' months he's not been better than Amartey. I note your absence in that thread from at least August to February, then I notice your overall post count, and wonder why a clearly not very shy guy didn't have much to say on the subject.

 

I think the howls about it being 'unbelievable' Dan gets the nod are revisionist nonsense. But so are the claims that if Amartey was to stay CB we'd get relegated whatever else happened on the pitch, or the idea that Soyuncu (Soyuncu!) would be an error free rock at the back.

 

And again, that's without bringing attitude/temperament into it.

 

Not quite sure what you are saying here!

 

Dan has been caught out a lot recently, so his shortcomings are very evident, whereas Cags gets the absence improves perception treatment. Neither is great currently, let’s be honest.

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Actually annoys me how much Rodgers is ruining his career. He has had many lapses in concentration and stupid moments, but he was in the PFA Team of the Year in 2020. You simply do not achieve that by being a bad player.

 

He has had his good moments for sure, unlike Amartey who probably hasn’t played well for more than two games consecutively. The favouritism that BR shows is a massive downfall.

...he is not rewarding Amartey, he is punishing Soyuncu, a big difference!!!

[turtmcfly]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Not quite sure what you are saying here!

 

Dan has been caught out a lot recently, so his shortcomings are very evident, whereas Cags gets the absence improves perception treatment. Neither is great currently, let’s be honest.

 

In essence I was asking whether your call that Soyuncu 'was certainly better than Amartey' included last season. I asked because your OP seems to centre on it being only his 'attitude' that explained Dan getting the nod over him. You're clearly not doing that, so all cool.

 

I'm in complete agreement with your second sentence. I think I'm being triggered by the sheer number of people bringing up replacing Amartey (in unrelated threads as well!) as the cure-all for this season. Especially when it's replacing him with Cags. Even if we replaced him with a perfect CD, how many other positions do we have players performing way below expectations, players you can point at and say the also lost us points?

 

 

[Grebfromgrebland]

I don't think we need to have this debate really. Amartey is shite and always has been.

 

Soyunchu is out of form and possibly has a bad attitude but he can be good.

 

Judging by our results and league position we have to play the one who can be good sometimes. Even if he hates Leicester and everyone in it. 

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, turtmcfly said:

 

In essence I was asking whether your call that Soyuncu 'was certainly better than Amartey' included last season. I asked because your OP seems to centre on it being only his 'attitude' that explained Dan getting the nod over him. You're clearly not doing that, so all cool.

 

I'm in complete agreement with your second sentence. I think I'm being triggered by the sheer number of people bringing up replacing Amartey (in unrelated threads as well!) as the cure-all for this season. Especially when it's replacing him with Cags. Even if we replaced him with a perfect CD, how many other positions do we have players performing way below expectations, players you can point at and say the also lost us points?

Well we can say (with some certainty) that several are performing below expectations, or, and this is where many feel the blame lies, they are under coached (or is it over coached?) resulting in our current predicament.

 

Faes seems good though, a leader, Reims fans are sad to see such a leader go, so hopefully we can move on to more positive moments.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

I don't think we need to have this debate really. Amartey is shite and always has been.

 

Soyunchu is out of form and possibly has a bad attitude but he can be good.

 

Judging by our results and league position we have to play the one who can be good sometimes. Even if he hates Leicester and everyone in it. 

 

Beggars can't be choosers.

But the one who used to be good wants to go and won’t sign a new contract.   

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

We don’t see him in training though, do we? Caglar has a massive love in on here, well beyond what he has ever shown, pretty sure it comes from his recklessness

Who gives a **** how good they are in training?

 

I only care about how good they are on the pitch in competitive games and it's undeniable that Soyuncu is better than Amartey.

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, AKCJ said:

Who gives a **** how good they are in training?

 

I only care about how good they are on the pitch in competitive games and it's undeniable that Soyuncu is better than Amartey.

So I take it you didn't watch Soyuncu when he played for last season? 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, AKCJ said:

Who gives a **** how good they are in training?

 

I only care about how good they are on the pitch in competitive games and it's undeniable that Soyuncu is better than Amartey.

Ffs.  

 

Its not undeniable only in your echo chamber 

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

So I take it you didn't watch Soyuncu when he played for last season? 

Even last season, Amartey has rarely played as well as Soyuncu at centre half. Particularly in a back 4.

[Corky]

I take it he's more than likely going to stay?

[Lambert09]

there was a tweet about inter showing interest. I’d imagine it’s too late in the day 

[LFox99]

Just now, Lambert09 said:

there was a tweet about inter showing interest. I’d imagine it’s too late in the day 

depends on whether Skriniar moves

[Lambert09]

2 minutes ago, LFox99 said:

depends on whether Skriniar moves

apparently their window shuts at 7pm. meaning there’s only a few hours left… stranger things have happened though 

[Corky]

Their window closes at 7pm too. Unlikely then.

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Ffs.  

 

Its not undeniable only in your echo chamber 

 

I'd say, on FoxesTalk, the cult of "Big Dan" is the bigger 'echo chamber' than any contrary message. It's absolutely bonkers the howlers a select few on here would absolutely ignore. He's been completely honking in 90% of his games here at CB. Every now and again we'll play a team that commit zero bodies forward, don't bother attacking and Amartey has to do very little to defend other than maybe chase down the occasional ball or shrug off some piss-weak forward and FoxesTalk will erupt in praise and vote him MOTM.

 

Then the following weak we'll actually have to do some defending and he'll be hilariously out of position leading to goals. He is quite possibly the worst defender we've had play more than a handful of games for us in the Premier League since it's creation. 

 

If you honestly want to claim, with a straight face, that he's better than Soyuncu then I honestly don't know what you've been watching. Maybe you haven't, I dunno, maybe that's the problem. 

[5waller5]

Peak Soyuncu > Peak Amartey

 

Getting the peak version is the manager’s job. 
 

Yet again we’ll lose a valuable asset because Rodgers can’t manage