Arsenal 2-0 LCFC - Post Match Thread

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.. just for clarification!!!

 

... This is a list of consequences not the offences? 

 

If you're going to try and quote the laws at least make sure you understand what you're actually quoting before posting it. 

 

You are wrong by way of fact, this isn't an opinion that's up for debate, they changed the law about penalty encroachment a season or two ago. Saka was perfectly legal until he interfered, which he didn't, so there's no offence. 

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....why are the players supposed to be standing outside of the box as part of the rule!!!

If taking action relied upon the encroaching player having a direct impact on the kick itself, then players could conceivably stand inside the box at either side so long as they are 9.15 metres away from the ball. Any encroachment by the attacking player such as in this game, shows he is seeking to gain an advantage, should the kick be saved or comes directly back off the post. If the defenders are holding their discipline in those instance, they are being punished twice if you do not monitor these infractions. 

 

Technically, yes, you could have players deliberately standing inside the box when the penalty was taken. 

 

Just the same as you can have players deliberately standing offside when a free kick is taken. 

 

It would be completely pointless, however, because as soon as the penalty hit the post or the goalkeeper and they wanted to become active by moving towards the ball they would be encroaching and thus play would be stopped for a defending free kick. 

 

This isn't rocket science, why are you acting like it's complicated? 

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Technically, yes, you could have players deliberately standing inside the box when the penalty was taken. 

 

Just the same as you can have players deliberately standing offside when a free kick is taken. 

 

It would be completely pointless, however, because as soon as the penalty hit the post or the goalkeeper and they wanted to become active by moving towards the ball they would be encroaching and thus play would be stopped for a defending free kick. 

 

This isn't rocket science, why are you acting like it's complicated? 

......I am not aware of a rule change which allows any player other than the penalty taker and Keeper to be in the box!!!

The rules state that no one else is allowed. Now if I am behind the times, then I hold my hand up and will move on.

[Finnegan]

Just now, sacreblueits442 said:

......I am not aware of a rule change which allows any player other than the penalty taker and Keeper to be in the box!!!

The rules state that no one else is allowed. Now if I am behind the times, then I hold my hand up and will move on.

 

@Cardiff_Fox literally just quoted the Premier League website on the previous page - in direct reply to you - and you completely ignored it.

 

When VAR was introduced and offences began to be micro-analysed, it lead to an immediate uptake in penalties having to be retaken because players were found to be encroaching by a literal toe even though they had absolutely no consequence what so ever towards the penalty because it went in and that player was never involved.

 

So they re-evaluated the law and added the same clause in to the penalty encroachment law that they did for offside, with the concept of players being directly involved or 'active.' A player now needs a "direct involvement in the outcome of the kick" by way of his encroachment to be committing an offence. 

 

This happened fairly recently, within the last couple of years.

 

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

@Cardiff_Fox literally just quoted the Premier League website on the previous page - in direct reply to you - and you completely ignored it.

 

When VAR was introduced and offences began to be micro-analysed, it lead to an immediate uptake in penalties having to be retaken because players were found to be encroaching by a literal toe even though they had absolutely no consequence what so ever towards the penalty because it went in and that player was never involved.

 

So they re-evaluated the law and added the same clause in to the penalty encroachment law that they did for offside, with the concept of players being directly involved or 'active.' A player now needs a "direct involvement in the outcome of the kick" by way of his encroachment to be committing an offence. 

 

This happened fairly recently, within the last couple of years.

 

 

...I took a look at his website and took the screen print I posted from there!!!

I was not aware of the revamped rules, and my interpretations of their site may require a further look.

 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, sacreblueits442 said:

I took a look at his website and took the screen print I posted from there!!!

 

Yes but what you quoted wasn't relevant. 

 

What you quoted was an explanation of the consequences, not the offences themselves.

 

So if the ball ends up in the net and there's found to be an offence then the kick is retaken. If the ball does not go in to the back of the net and there's an offence then the defending team get an indirect free kick. 

 

Following that is a list of exceptions to that, if the penalty kick is played backwards, lets say to an encroaching player, and he scores - then regardless of it being in the net it is not retaken, there's a defensive free kick. Likewise there is a defensive free kick if the designated kicker is not the player that takes it (ie, if he dummies and another runs up and kicks it) or if he feints to kick the ball so as to distract the goalkeeper and then takes a second swing.

 

This last detail is what Kasper was the most upset about, not anyone encroaching. He felt that Laca feinted before striking it, he probably had a slight argument there but realistically players get away with that all of the time. It's a really poorly handled part of the rules. I've stated many times that the way Jorginho, Josef Martinez, Bruno Fernandes, etc take a penalty should be illegal but alas as yet it's yet to be written in to the rules. 

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Yes but what you quoted wasn't relevant. 

 

What you quoted was an explanation of the consequences, not the offences themselves.

 

So if the ball ends up in the net and there's found to be an offence then the kick is retaken. If the ball does not go in to the back of the net and there's an offence then the defending team get an indirect free kick. 

 

Following that is a list of exceptions to that, if the penalty kick is played backwards, lets say to an encroaching player, and he scores - then regardless of it being in the net it is not retaken, there's a defensive free kick. Likewise there is a defensive free kick if the designated kicker is not the player that takes it (ie, if he dummies and another runs up and kicks it) or if he feints to kick the ball so as to distract the goalkeeper and then takes a second swing.

 

This last detail is what Kasper was the most upset about, not anyone encroaching. He felt that Laca feinted before striking it, he probably had a slight argument there but realistically players get away with that all of the time. It's a really poorly handled part of the rules. I've stated many times that the way Jorginho, Josef Martinez, Bruno Fernandes, etc take a penalty should be illegal but alas as yet it's yet to be written in to the rules. 

.....just coming across your previous post regarding this, just reading them through now!!!

As you know notifications go into another sector so was replying to St Albans and yourself as they came in. Thanks for the updates, looking into them now.

[CosbehFox]

50 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

@Cardiff_Fox literally just quoted the Premier League website on the previous page - in direct reply to you - and you completely ignored it.

 

When VAR was introduced and offences began to be micro-analysed, it lead to an immediate uptake in penalties having to be retaken because players were found to be encroaching by a literal toe even though they had absolutely no consequence what so ever towards the penalty because it went in and that player was never involved.

 

So they re-evaluated the law and added the same clause in to the penalty encroachment law that they did for offside, with the concept of players being directly involved or 'active.' A player now needs a "direct involvement in the outcome of the kick" by way of his encroachment to be committing an offence. 

 

This happened fairly recently, within the last couple of years.

 

Of course if schmeichel saves the penalty and went out for a corner but say Thomas was encroaching by a toe. It wouldn’t be a retake. 
 

He hasn’t interfered  

[Scotch]

The encroaching is a complete no event. It didn't effect anything despite breaking the rules but more importantly, Schmeichel was breaking the rules simultaneously so it would have been incredibly harsh to order a retake considering his breach of the rules probably had more of a chance of affecting the outcome. 

[smudgerfox]

5 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Where you did think we can achieve in the league? 

I think it impossible to predict where we’ll finish - 7th if we perform strongly but could be as low as 14th if we don’t. My point is that getting the squad - and I mean the squad not just the 14-15 players BR seems to rate and play regularly - used to winning games in the EPL might be more useful long term than getting to the semi final of the Conference League and losing on penalties. The point about the Conference is that only winning it will do …even reaching the Final and losing would feel like a failure .,,

 

As I say I believe we could win it - but as with all cup competitions there’s an element of chance about the outcome …

[WigstonWanderer]

Sickening Arsenal lovefest by the commentators

[Fox1norfolk]

6 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

Var should not be one person it should be a panel. 

One person leaves it open to corruption.

Replay it a few times then the panel press a buzzer as to how they interpret it.

Quicker and simpler and no corruption.

A panel made up of Referees and respected ex players, managers at least 3 possibly 5. Independent buzzers and decision has to be made in 2 minutes. 

[foxinsocks]

20 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....just looking at the decision, Soyuncu had his arm outstretched trying to get back to cover the goal line, The change of direction when the Arsenal player headed it directed it to where his fingers were!!!

 It was not that he motioned to stop the ball, his hand was in that position as the ball came off the head of the Arsenal player. He could not retract his hand quick enough to bring it out of the way. I would have thought if it was intentional he would have followed through with his hand movement as opposed to pulling his hand away when it was too late.

dude - I agree - but 2 -0 to arsenal was about the right result.

[Spudulike]

I haven't watched MotD yet. Think I'll swerve it. 

[kenty216]

Atmosphere yesterday absolutely embarrassing, too many sat down at front but conveniently end the game standing when begging for players shirts. No wonder atmosphere in randers was opposite, none sat down, none begging for shirts, if you want to sit down, sit down at home would be my advice👍🏼

[enmac]

21 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Positives:

 

- Not a game we expect to win away from home against them in such good form

 

- Looked decent in possession at times. Managed the ball under pressure quite well

 

- Looked more solid at the back again. Another very good performance from Amartey

 

- Looked very good for 15 minutes before half time and but for a world class save and a last ditch tackle, it would have been a very different game

 

Negatives:

 

- We're too easy to close a game out against. Arsenal cruised to victory in the end

 

- N'didi for Mendy and Justin for Pereira was a very strange reaction to going two down. Like for like changes isn't going to swing a fixture or change the impetus when it's needed

 

- Kelechi as the lone striker does not work. Why we keep trying it is beyond me

 

- Another set piece goal. Totally free header

Changes were probably for resting purposes. Mendy hasn't played much and Ricardo is coming back from injury. 

[Batesy]

5 minutes ago, kenty216 said:

Atmosphere yesterday absolutely embarrassing, too many sat down at front but conveniently end the game standing when begging for players shirts. No wonder atmosphere in randers was opposite, none sat down, none begging for shirts, if you want to sit down, sit down at home would be my advice👍🏼

Couldn’t agree more, our support at home and away (bar a couple) has been nothing short of awful. Too many turn up with packed lunches and blankets. We’re becoming a laughing stock.

[CrispinLA in Texas]

3 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Sickening Arsenal lovefest by the commentators

Yeah it's was so so puke, you would have thought Arsenal were beating prime Barcelona in a champions league game.

 

[Guest Col city fan]

Schmeichel yet again kept the score line down yesterday. Can’t understand the critics. I think he’s had a superb season. 

[kenty216]

58 minutes ago, Batesy said:

Couldn’t agree more, our support at home and away (bar a couple) has been nothing short of awful. Too many turn up with packed lunches and blankets. We’re becoming a laughing stock.

Hundred percent, at one point yesterday someone turned round to one of my mates suggesting him trying to make some atmosphere was embarrassing, he replied what’s embarrassing is you sat down all game. All at front couple of rows which makes it look crap aswell!

[Clever Fox]

2 hours ago, Fox1norfolk said:

A panel made up of Referees and respected ex players, managers at least 3 possibly 5. Independent buzzers and decision has to be made in 2 minutes. 

It sounds simple but that's what they need to do.

The same panel could cover a couple of games if needed. As they are only deciding on the incidents that takes place.

[Ric Flair]

It's absolutely revolting to see Arsenal not look a complete and utter disgrace any longer. 

[chapero82]

This one was worse than Cags and we never got it  

 

[Jabfox]

I remember this, nothing surprises me anymore with officials and VAR  

[An Sionnach]

Arsenal are a decent unit these days without any individual standing out. Defensively they are solid with a very good young goalkeeper. They have in fact conceded 27 goals less than us since the beginning of last season which shows that side of their game is very sound now . Attacking wise they have none of the superstars of the top three or even Spurs and Man.Utd. but they often get the winning goal and that is what matters.