Soumare

[cropstonfox]

Terrible signing.

Cut losses and get what we can.

Have a good look at who signed him and

Daka.

[FLAN]

Haven’t read all this but being at the game my view was he’s way off the level needed off the ball. Too often out of position when the opposition have the ball. He tries sillly things at the wrong time. Reminds me of Pogba with his lax approach to the game. Poundland Pogba if you will 

the only thing stopping me going all out is he shouldn’t be thrown into that weak team and Perez stunk the place out in the second half 

[Guest Col city fan]

5 hours ago, jamesp26 said:

Right now - he's not, but there is plenty of talent there and i thought he had a good first half in particular. It seems stupid to judge off one game when he's barely featured for ages. If he can get some regular minutes, i think he will come good.

Who’s judging him after one game? Another daft post 

[Scotch]

3 hours ago, jerry said:

Fat or just unfit ? 🙄

To be fair, that was an autocorrect. I meant FAR. 

[Deeg67]

Thought the first half was the least worst he's looked, though even there we had a couple instances where he was standing around ball-watching, and got caught out of position for it.

 

People harp on him taking too long on the ball, and I agree that's a concern.  But I think the biggest issue is that if you look at successful midfielders in the prem, they're constantly in motion whether in defense or attack.  They flow through the match like a river - Soumare breaks through it like ocean waves.  Start-stop.  Start-stop.  Repeat.

[Guest Col city fan]

Just now, Deeg67 said:

Thought the first half was the least worst he's looked, though even there we had a couple instances where he was standing around ball-watching, and got caught out of position for it.

 

People harp on him taking too long on the ball, and I agree that's a concern.  But I think the biggest issue is that if you look at successful midfielders in the prem, they're constantly in motion whether in defense or attack.  They flow through the match like a river - Soumare breaks through it like ocean waves.  Start-stop.  Start-stop.  Repeat.

Spot on. Good analogy and you can liken it to French football. It’s much more ponderous than the Premiership 

[Dan LCFC]

14 hours ago, murphy said:

I agree with this.  The Vardy example is often trotted out to demonstrate that a silk purse can be made from any sow's ear just so long as we are patient and give it time.  In my opinion, most players that make it hit the ground running, even young players like Wilf, Tielemans, Fofana etc.  For every Vardy there is a Musa/Inler/Ghezzal/Perez etc etc.

 

I think in Soumare's case we will be forced to be patient because I don't think we have any realistic chance of getting our money back, but I would take it in a heartbeat if it were offered.  He's a player that looks laboured and out of sorts.  I haven't seen anything to base any optimism upon. 

The Vardy example is the exception and not the rule. Using such an extreme situation for the argument is like saying we should win the league because of 2015/16. That is not to say all players should be written off if they don't hit the ground running, but I do want to see reasons on the pitch for persisting with somebody rather than this blind faith that it's all magically going to come into place. The latter happening is not a frequent occurrence.

 

If Rodgers wants him out then I'm fine with that. Not every transfer works and it's not even necessarily a dig at Soumare - I just think if you can cash in on a bad situation while you can then it's probably prudent to do so unless you've seen signs of promise, and I've seen virtually nothing from Soumare I'm afraid. I keep going back to Daka, who has struggled, but he's shown something - he can finish and he's absolutely rapid. That's a weapon if you utilise it.

[Ian Nacho]

I thought he was decent today, especially given that he’s not played in however long. 

[sacreblueits442]

8 hours ago, splinterdream said:

I don't think he's a cdm. He doesn't run with energy or intensiteeeee, seems more like tielemens style than anyone 

...he is neither!!!

He patrols and works between the boxes, he does the same things as Ndidi and Tielemans but he is not exceptional in either role. People struggle to pigeon hole what he is, and what he is supposed to bring to the team. We may never get to see him at his best playing for us, any issues that he has, is obviously holding him back.

[Deeg67]

People try to pigeonhole him as an all-rounder because he doesn't seem to do anything especially well.  But being a true all-rounder, box to box MF doesn't mean having no specialty - being one is kind of a specialty in itself.  It means you're good at a lot of things and have the engine to keep you moving (smartly) throughout the match.  Unfortunately the evidence suggests Soumare is more of a "tweener" than an all-rounder.

 

That said, we'll never make our money back selling him this summer and he is still young.  I'd probably give it one more season to see if the light switch clicks on and he levels up to the PL.

Edited 1 May 2022 by Deeg67

[Jimmy]

play him every league game for the rest of the season and let him play himself into form, not all players can just get dropped in and hit the ground running some need to know they have a place

[sacreblueits442]

24 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

People try to pigeonhole him as an all-rounder because he doesn't seem to do anything especially well.  But being a true all-rounder, box to box MF doesn't mean having no specialty - being one is kind of a specialty in itself.  It means you're good at a lot of things and have the engine to keep you moving (smartly) throughout the match.  Unfortunately the evidence suggests Soumare is more of a "tweener" than an all-rounder.

 

That said, we'll never make our money back selling him this summer and he is still young.  I'd probably give it one more season to see if the light switch clicks on and he levels up to the PL.

....if a "Tweener" is someone who works between both boxes, and is not involved in either boxes then that would be the role of Soumare!!!

He is not going to be scoring goals or assists, he does not do that, nor is he in our box defending. What is meant in regarding not being exceptional in either the Ndidi or the Tielemans role is the expertise that those two have in their game, Soumare falls short in both respects. If he had those skills his worth would be pushing £80m as opposed to what we paid for him..

  For £18m, I can't see that we will struggle to get our money back, worst case scenario.

Edited 1 May 2022 by sacreblueits442

[Lambert09]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

play him every league game for the rest of the season and let him play himself into form, not all players can just get dropped in and hit the ground running some need to know they have a place

I think he definitely seemed to have a bit more purpose not being next to youri. He seemed to want to take ownership but as the game went on he just seemed to lose a bit of motivation. 

 

Had we scored that first opportunity rather than hitting the post it could have been a completely different game. 

[Jimmy]

3 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I think he definitely seemed to have a bit more purpose not being next to youri. He seemed to want to take ownership but as the game went on he just seemed to lose a bit of motivation. 

 

Had we scored that first opportunity rather than hitting the post it could have been a completely different game. 

he's a box to box 8 in a 433, if Wilf was available right now my CM 3 would be Soumare/Wilf/KDH

 

Tielemans hasn't deserved a place all season

[Lambert09]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

he's a box to box 8 in a 433, if Wilf was available right now my CM 3 would be Soumare/Wilf/KDH

 

Tielemans hasn't deserved a place all season

If we were playing for nothing i’d agree. But we need to let youri try to play himself into form because we all know what he can do on a big occasion. 

 

if we manage to beat roma we need a bit of positive momentum heading into the final. i always worry about reserve squads in the league because the losing mentality really is hard to shake off. 

[Deeg67]

2 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

If we were playing for nothing i’d agree. But we need to let youri try to play himself into form because we all know what he can do on a big occasion. 

 

if we manage to beat roma we need a bit of positive momentum heading into the final. i always worry about reserve squads in the league because the losing mentality really is hard to shake off. 

On the other hand if KDH had gotten some rest instead of being ground down to flour in relatively unimportant league matches his status for the one that really matters probably wouldn’t be in doubt.

[Lambert09]

5 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

On the other hand if KDH had gotten some rest instead of being ground down to flour in relatively unimportant league matches his status for the one that really matters probably wouldn’t be in doubt.

selective rotation to get the best from everyone and just plonking a reserve 11 are very different things… psychologically and otherwise 

 

i still blame missing out on top four on the xmas reserve side that went to palace! 

Edited 2 May 2022 by Lambert09

[sacreblueits442]

7 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I think he definitely seemed to have a bit more purpose not being next to youri. He seemed to want to take ownership but as the game went on he just seemed to lose a bit of motivation. 

 

Had we scored that first opportunity rather than hitting the post it could have been a completely different game. 

...the believe from some parts is that he is unfit, after a whole season, how can you still be unfit!!!

Even if you miss pre-season, you can still catch up, gain match fitness, get the fitness in his legs, even play with the U23s if you have to. There is no excuse for him to be unfit!!

[Jimmy]

9 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

If we were playing for nothing i’d agree. But we need to let youri try to play himself into form because we all know what he can do on a big occasion. 

 

if we manage to beat roma we need a bit of positive momentum heading into the final. i always worry about reserve squads in the league because the losing mentality really is hard to shake off. 

Tielemans has spent the entire season passing to the other side and isn't interested on where we finish he checked out last summer, the only reason he plays in Europe for me is Wilf is out, Youri wants to play? show some commitment and gratitude none of the massive clubs his deluded agent thinks want him actually do he's being linked to Arsenal ffs

[Jimmy]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

How about the Soyuncu, Iheanacho, Albrighton or Evans examples though? I’m not saying Soumare will be a success, but I struggle to understand the conclusions that some (not necessarily saying yourself @Dan LCFC) are drawing from such small sample size. It does feel like some want him to fail in order to be proved right. 
 

hell there's the KDH example, earlier this season he was being written off as a championship player but then he got a run in the side ...

[sacreblueits442]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

Tielemans has spent the entire season passing to the other side and isn't interested on where we finish he checked out last summer, the only reason he plays in Europe for me is Wilf is out, Youri wants to play? show some commitment and gratitude none of the massive clubs his deluded agent thinks want him actually do he's being linked to Arsenal ffs

....and they might not blow top 4 for two years in a row!!!

[Jimmy]

4 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....and they might not blow top 4 for two years in a row!!!

they're not going to win anything either and btw Tielemans played a big part in blowing top 4 2 years in a row

[sacreblueits442]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

they're not going to win anything either and btw Tielemans played a big part in blowing top 4 2 years in a row

....I would say that Arsenal are building a foundation this season that seem sustainable at the moment!!!

As for winning things, only time will tell, at this moment a choice between Arsenal and us and Arsenal would win every time. Should Youri move to them, it would be a move upwards as opposed to a lateral move.

  I would like to see Tielemans here, with a better work rate and more consistency, I cannot see him changing, so we have to get the best deal that we can.

[Deeg67]

37 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

they're not going to win anything either and btw Tielemans played a big part in blowing top 4 2 years in a row

In his defense Rodgers absolutely drove him into the ground both seasons.

[Albert]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

they're not going to win anything either and btw Tielemans played a big part in blowing top 4 2 years in a row

Btw, he also played a big part in us finishing as the Premier league’s 5th best team 2 years in a row & winning the FA Cup…