Soumare

[Dan LCFC]

3 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

How about the Soyuncu, Iheanacho, Albrighton or Evans examples though? I’m not saying Soumare will be a success, but I struggle to understand the conclusions that some (not necessarily saying yourself @Dan LCFC) are drawing from such small sample size. It does feel like some want him to fail in order to be proved right. 
 

Iheanacho I will give you as he had a good turnaround himself. Albrighton, I suppose but I think with both him and Soyuncu it was largely as much down to being out of the team rather than a flop. I thought Soyuncu did OK in his games in 2018/19. Evans was just one half of madness, a game we ended up winning 2-0 anyway. He might come good but if I was placing a bet I'd bet that he won't come good, and therefore would cash in, based on what I've seen. I might be wrong but I don't think I will be, sadly.

 

Like I say if BR wants to sell then I support that and actually quite rate the ruthlessness. Just remember how long we wasted minutes on Gray.

[Dan LCFC]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

hell there's the KDH example, earlier this season he was being written off as a championship player but then he got a run in the side ...

KDH didn't look eye-catching early doors but he also wasn't a liability. Soumare has often been a liability I think. We've been actively weakened for having him in the side.

 

I thought he was alright against Spurs although maybe that's just relative to expectation. It was ultimately still a game we defended badly in (as usual), created little in (as usual) and lost comfortably.

Edited 2 May 2022 by Dan LCFC

[Chelmofox]

9 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Who’s judging him after one game? Another daft post 

Really no need to be so aggressive. 

 

Tell me, before yesterday, when was the last time Soumare started? And since then, has he not been both injured and out with issues? 
 

Yesterday is hardly a player match fit, and neither was he the player with first choice players around him. Vardy wanders around doing next to nothing in 2 games and people rightly don't judge because he's back form injury and he's not match fit. Soumare comes back and everyone labels him a lazy idiot.

 

So no, its not another 'daft' post' as I would not like to just judge him on yesterdays game. Just trying to put things into perspective. Soumare actually did look pretty decent at times, especially in the first half. Was he amazing and showed potential to be a legend - no, but that takes time. But he showed more creativity that many others on the pitch yesterday, including many of the Spurs players (excluding Son and Kane! ). 

[Guest Col city fan]

28 minutes ago, jamesp26 said:

Really no need to be so aggressive. 

 

Tell me, before yesterday, when was the last time Soumare started? And since then, has he not been both injured and out with issues? 
 

Yesterday is hardly a player match fit, and neither was he the player with first choice players around him. Vardy wanders around doing next to nothing in 2 games and people rightly don't judge because he's back form injury and he's not match fit. Soumare comes back and everyone labels him a lazy idiot.

 

So no, its not another 'daft' post' as I would not like to just judge him on yesterdays game. Just trying to put things into perspective. Soumare actually did look pretty decent at times, especially in the first half. Was he amazing and showed potential to be a legend - no, but that takes time. But he showed more creativity that many others on the pitch yesterday, including many of the Spurs players (excluding Son and Kane! ). 

I think Soumare had possibly his best half of football for us yesterday since he joined the club. In the first half.

In the second half, it was almost like he wasn’t playing. As Spurs turned it on, Soumare (along with many others) went missing.

But I’m judging him on lots of games I’ve seen him play in. And there’s been a clear pattern. He’s not sufficiently mobile and gets over-run when we are placed on the back foot.

He could improve yes, but the player I’ve seen looks far more suited to a slower brand of football, eg Ligue 1

[fox_up_north]

He needs this run of games. If you're going to take a chance on a young player with no experience in the league, then you have to be willing to put the time in and expect a learning curve. 

 

Now, within that, you can put milestones. EG: "I want to see X level after Y number of starts". Coaching staff will have a better eye for this than is and I hope they've seen things yesterday that will be worked on in training. 

[mohammedsaqib]

He’s gonna be a frustrating one isn’t he? You can tell there’s talent there - that first half run where he looked strong, powerful and barged Davies off and then long periods where he jogs slowly around the pitch and the game passes him by. I don’t know what the key is to unlocking more of the former but I fear we won’t see it here

[murphy]

11 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

How about the Soyuncu, Iheanacho, Albrighton or Evans examples though? I’m not saying Soumare will be a success, but I struggle to understand the conclusions that some (not necessarily saying yourself @Dan LCFC) are drawing from such small sample size. It does feel like some want him to fail in order to be proved right. 
 

I think that the only example from your list that strengthens your argument is Nacho.  I admit that after two years I had given up on him.

 

As I recall, Soyuncu was thrown straight in after Maguire left, having played four or so games during the previous season and had a stormer.  Evans quickly found his feet after half a dozen or so games and is the definition of PL proven as was Albrighton, he just wasn't favoured by Pearson.

 

Having watched the likes of SIlva, Inler, Musa, Ghezzal,, Bennalouane, Hernandez, Benkovic etc, come and go, it is my belief that those that make it tend to be those that slot in relatively quickly.  That is not to say that a turn around can't happen of course and it is not the same as wanting to proven right.  Last year, I was quick to say how pleased I was to be proven wrong with Nacho's Damascene turnaround.  

 

To flip your argument on it's head, I have to ask, would you still be waiting for Adrien Silva to make an impact?  Or is there a time when you would also cut your losses and how long should that be?  I'm not saying that we are at that stage with Soumare yet, just that I am not optimistic.

 

 

 

.  

[splinterdream]

18 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...he is neither!!!

He patrols and works between the boxes, he does the same things as Ndidi and Tielemans but he is not exceptional in either role. People struggle to pigeon hole what he is, and what he is supposed to bring to the team. We may never get to see him at his best playing for us, any issues that he has, is obviously holding him back.

Just been talking about him to my dad. What I noticed on Sunday is he doesn't seem to want to bust a gut to get behind the ball if we lose possession. He appears like a player who isn't happy being here 

[splinterdream]

18 hours ago, Jimmy said:

he's a box to box 8 in a 433, if Wilf was available right now my CM 3 would be Soumare/Wilf/KDH

 

Tielemans hasn't deserved a place all season

Soumare/mendy/KDH.

 

Wilf hasn't been very good all season either, Mendy is the player in form right now

Edited 2 May 2022 by splinterdream

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, splinterdream said:

Soumare/mendy/KDH.

 

Wilf hasn't been very good all season either, Mendy is the player in form right now

I’m not going to argue that to be fair, that said I don’t think Mendy will be here next season so I’d lean towards someone who is but there aren’t that many to chose from

Edited 2 May 2022 by Jimmy

[Dandy king]

It's a shame as I always want anyone who puts on the shirt to do well ( mostly anyone, always thought Jermaine Beckford was a bit of a div ) but as others have said we've seen this situation before , particularly with premier league recruitment. We are now a team of a level that requires players to show more than just potential reasonably quickly. Soumare needs to turn it on pretty quick or he's best moving on. Better to sign Mendy up again

[Dan LCFC]

14 hours ago, murphy said:

I think that the only example from your list that strengthens your argument is Nacho.  I admit that after two years I had given up on him.

 

As I recall, Soyuncu was thrown straight in after Maguire left, having played four or so games during the previous season and had a stormer.  Evans quickly found his feet after half a dozen or so games and is the definition of PL proven as was Albrighton, he just wasn't favoured by Pearson.

 

Having watched the likes of SIlva, Inler, Musa, Ghezzal,, Bennalouane, Hernandez, Benkovic etc, come and go, it is my belief that those that make it tend to be those that slot in relatively quickly.  That is not to say that a turn around can't happen of course and it is not the same as wanting to proven right.  Last year, I was quick to say how pleased I was to be proven wrong with Nacho's Damascene turnaround.  

 

To flip your argument on it's head, I have to ask, would you still be waiting for Adrien Silva to make an impact?  Or is there a time when you would also cut your losses and how long should that be?  I'm not saying that we are at that stage with Soumare yet, just that I am not optimistic..  

I'm with this a lot - I think what happened with Vardy, aka the most extraordinary coming good possibly in football history, distorts peoples views.

 

There's an art to selling players. If we could get £15mil for Soumare and spend that on another midfield we fancy then I'd be all for doing that. It may suit both the club and the player. It's not as much giving up on Soumare as much as it is getting him in the right place, and maybe this side isn't it.

[gerblod]

On 01/05/2022 at 09:33, jamesp26 said:

Your reference to the boot room was around Liverpool creating a culture for management and transfers. It's only my opinion, but the success of the boot room is skewed by the significant length of 2 legendary managers (Shankley and Pasily). Like Ferguson, if the success is attributed to those individuals, then is the overall system a success?, or were the individuals so good they just transcended everything? With Ferguson, we saw the wheels spectacularly come off once he left so there was no long lasting system there, and we saw Liverpool drift once the boot room ran dry (i remember the fuss about the Houllier appointment, and how to begin with they paired him with Evans, the last man standing from the boot room).

 

Anyhow, it was a system for a different era. Leicester are trying to build their identity and i think we have some amazing academy prospects coming through, but they won't all hit their peak at the same time, nor are all guaranteed to make their mark at the highest level. Therefore, we also need to dip our toe in the transfer market with players who have had first team football, but aren't the finished prospects. I don't think the identity of our club is to be buying £50 million premier league superstars, so some of our signings are going to come with development and risk. I strongly feel Daka will come good, but Soumaré has disappointed me. However, i appreciate it could take longer with him.

 

With my last comment, i know you didn't mention BR's rumoured exit. My point was merely that this whole debate has been sparked by a single forum post which at this point is no more than unsubstantiated rumour.  We had a similar debate earlier in the season about the 'imminent' departure of Rodgers. Assuming there is no smoke without fire, what ever happened there got resolved so its possible whatever has happened here could possibly get resolved. 

 

We shall see if Soumaré starts today and take it from there  

 

 

No - my point about the Boot Room was about a continuity of a system that worked extremely effectively. Sure, Paisley and Shankly were the key figures in the set-up, but Joe Fagan and Roy Evans represented continuity. And you're omitting the other crucial figure...Dalglish.

I stated that external events had affected the system - Heysel and Hillsborough. Dalglish stated that he'd been adversely affected by what had happened.

Effective systems remain effective until a spanner is thrown in the works. I see nothing in what you maintain is "a different era" which couldn't work in what you styled as the modern game. But it takes a strong, focused and objective individual to institute a system and then find a natural successor to continue and so on. And it takes a continuity of loyalty by players to groom (dubious wording these days) the successor(s). Were Gerrard to become manager and Henderson, for example, to succeed him, then the Boot Room could emerge again. But there are significant factors preventing that - and you're correct about the modern game insofar that it prevents, rather than supersedes, continuity.

 

But this thread is about Soumare and about what you state is a single, unsubstantiated post. So I apologise for being irrelevant to the forum thread.

[foxsake]

On 02/05/2022 at 13:00, mohammedsaqib said:

He’s gonna be a frustrating one isn’t he? You can tell there’s talent there - that first half run where he looked strong, powerful and barged Davies off and then long periods where he jogs slowly around the pitch and the game passes him by. I don’t know what the key is to unlocking more of the former but I fear we won’t see it here

100% agree.. you know there's a good player in there but I don't think we have the time or the luxury to find out sadly. 

[Chelmofox]

Several months ago i mentioned that in a pre match warm up he looked sharp, fit and was striking the ball nicely. In today's warm up, i might have been well watching my son out there. Barely lifted his legs,barely jogged and communicated with no one. Did some passing with Thomas and he kept missing it and labourly walking to the side of the pitch to pick it up. Left before the subs did any shooting practice. Looks like a kid thats had all the life sucked out of him. 

[Incognito]

40 minutes ago, jamesp26 said:

Several months ago i mentioned that in a pre match warm up he looked sharp, fit and was striking the ball nicely. In today's warm up, i might have been well watching my son out there. Barely lifted his legs,barely jogged and communicated with no one. Did some passing with Thomas and he kept missing it and labourly walking to the side of the pitch to pick it up. Left before the subs did any shooting practice. Looks like a kid thats had all the life sucked out of him. 

He certainly does resemble someone with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

[sacreblueits442]

46 minutes ago, Incognito said:

He certainly does resemble someone with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

....you have to ask the question, why is he out there!!!

If his "personal problem" still exist, then why is he not looking to resolve his problem, rather than being on a football pitch apparently going through the motions. I have no idea how what is being asked of him is helping, and if it is clear to some that he appears to be depressed then we should be looking out for his best interest, instead of putting him in situations he obviously cannot function in.

[UniFox21]

Hes probably on his way out then isn't he? 

 

 

 

[kingfox]

Just now, UniFox21 said:

Hes probably on his way out then isn't he? 

 

 

 

He’s been locked in the King Power hiding closet with the likes of Leon Crncic.

[adejo92]

33 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Hes probably on his way out then isn't he? 

 

 

 

 

I listened to the post match interview with Rodgers and the reporter mentioned something about there having been personal issues too.

 

 Could be something to do with that. Also wouldn't be suprised if it's as you suggest - he's not looked too favourable after all.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 minute ago, adejo92 said:

 

I listened to the post match interview with Rodgers and the reporter mentioned something about there having been personal issues too.

 

 Could be something to do with that. Also wouldn't be suprised if it's as you suggest - he's not looked too favourable after all.

Rodgers doesn't rate him. It's that simple.

[KrefelderFox666]

7 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

 

I listened to the post match interview with Rodgers and the reporter mentioned something about there having been personal issues too.

 

 Could be something to do with that. Also wouldn't be suprised if it's as you suggest - he's not looked too favourable after all.

Rodgers confirmed it was nothing to do with that. Sounds very much like Rodgers hates him.

[turlo]

6 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Rodgers doesn't rate him. It's that simple.

Has he ever rated him? How much influence did Rodgers have in signing him in the first place?

[Tanya]

We gave him an extended run in the team and he was dismal outside of one match. I think it'll be a long way back for him.

 

He's the only young summer signing that I don't rate. I think Lookman should be signed and Daka has potential. Soumare looks in the same category as Vesty and Bertrand.

[Guest Col city fan]

I wonder if he’s off?