Soumare

[jonathan_ross]

How does every player nowadays manage to warrant a big forum debate on his ability when it’s plain to see he’s pure excrement like the player in question? I don’t remember anyone scratching there heads over Momo Sylla and Elvis Hammond back in the day.

Edited 7 October 2022 by jonathan_ross

[Bourbon Fox]

 

[sacreblueits442]

30 minutes ago, jonathan_ross said:

How does every player nowadays manage to warrant a big forum debate on his ability when it’s plain to see he’s pure excrement like the player in question? I don’t remember anyone scratching there heads over Momo Sylla and Elvis Hammond back in the day.

...he is very much an enigma!!!

[frany104]

11 minutes ago, Bourbon Fox said:

 

He was decent against forest. Showed a good all round game and attributes. Just got to do it more consistently against better teams now. 

[Clever Fox]

He can be everything Wilf is and more because he has a footballers Brain which Wilf doesn't.

 

He new to the league and Country. Now he's begining to show his class and potential.

He just needs to add games and consistancy.

 

I'd love to see him play with Youri and Wilf in a midfield 3.  This would stop teams getting too close to goal.

[Nicolo Barella]

2 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

He can be everything Wilf is and more because he has a footballers Brain which Wilf doesn't.

 

He new to the league and Country. Now he's begining to show his class and potential.

He just needs to add games and consistancy.

 

I'd love to see him play with Youri and Wilf in a midfield 3.  This would stop teams getting too close to goal.

I would be shocked if he ever reached Wilf's defensive peak. 

[The_Rorab]

4 hours ago, Bourbon Fox said:

 

I definitely think this shows he has the capability to play some tidy stuff and I hope it continues going forward, but I can't help but notice just how much time on the ball he has in a lot of these clips. There's some good play under pressure a few times as well, but you have to assume most other clubs are gonna press a lot better than Forest did.

[volpeazzurro]

9 hours ago, jonathan_ross said:

How does every player nowadays manage to warrant a big forum debate on his ability when it’s plain to see he’s pure excrement like the player in question? I don’t remember anyone scratching there heads over Momo Sylla and Elvis Hammond back in the day.

I suppose it's because some players are more debatable than others. I for one don't think that Soumare is 'excrement' as you put it. I feel that part of the problem is that notwithstanding he's young and just moved country and culture to a different type of football,  he hasn't been played to his strengths under Rodgers like several other players. If he put Vardy at centre half and he failed to perform, would you call him excrement too or would you take into consideration the fact that perhaps that isn't his best position. Comparing Soumare to the players you mentioned is hardly a true comparison in any case. Some of these considerations aren't as clear cut as being 'excrement' or 'brilliant'.

[SafewayFox]

20 hours ago, taupe said:

No we don't, or don't seem to - let's put it like that anyway. I'm not quite so sure it's as simple as that though. I think there's an attempt to address how the absence of a certain player, and what they bring to our game, effects our game (and game plan) in general. I don't think Rodgers is quite so simple as to say 'same plan, stick x in as a direct replacement'... as much as I do struggle to understand exactly what his thinking is sometimes, we certainly do see him asking players to change their games;  Maddison and Tielemens for example. 

 

I don't hold Soumare responsible for any of that though (and this thread is about him rather than tactics and shape) He plays his game to his strengths and I do think (or am hopeful anyway) that we'll see better things from him - once we've worked out how to incorporate him in the overall shape, and he learns to adapt himself, (as I say, a matter of balance) Like any player (I assume) they'll play anywhere the manager asks (I would when I played anyway!) so if Soumare is shoe-horned into a position that isn't one he is naturally suited to then he'll do his best. But I don't think anyone ought expect him to be a like-for-like Ndidi replacement. He isn't and wasn't brought in to be one. The way we play will subtly change, even if they overall plan doesn't, and naturally evolve as we incorporate different players.

 

Soumare is still new to us, still finding his way and the team is equally finding its way with him. I'm just keen to not judge him on the basis of what he is not. I've seen what he can do and, as I said, we were told he was brought in to do and 'so far, so good' imho. A ways to go, for sure, but I'm hopeful. 

 

 

Ok, so we won’t play 433 today with Soumare playing where Ndidi would usually line up with Youri and KDH next/in front of him?

 

I’m sorry but a player who has been here 14 months cannot be classed as new to us either, the fact Rodgers canned him from the match day squad for quite large chunks last season is down to Bouba.

 

Rodgers clearly doesn’t rate Mendy during his time here and was kept out by him, so 🤷🏻‍♂️

[SafewayFox]

9 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

He can be everything Wilf is and more because he has a footballers Brain which Wilf doesn't.

 

He new to the league and Country. Now he's begining to show his class and potential.

He just needs to add games and consistancy.

 

I'd love to see him play with Youri and Wilf in a midfield 3.  This would stop teams getting too close to goal.

He doesn’t possess a better footballers brain though, a footballer HAS awareness of players around him and sniffs out trouble.

 

Yes, he has a better touch than Ndidi, can pass better than Ndidi but that’s not having a better footballing brain.

 

I kinda see where you’re coming from but I don’t think I can ever get behind the notion of Soumare having a footballing brain as he struggles with so much of the basic stuff of playing CM - even an 8 has to track a runner etc.

[fuchsntf]

15 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

Ok, so we won’t play 433 today with Soumare playing where Ndidi would usually line up with Youri and KDH next/in front of him?

 

I’m sorry but a player who has been here 14 months cannot be classed as new to us either, the fact Rodgers canned him from the match day squad for quite large chunks last season is down to Bouba.

 

Rodgers clearly doesn’t rate Mendy during his time here and was kept out by him, so 🤷🏻‍♂️

This is not my perspective,over any of your points....

You have no idea of the club's mindset,when investing in any player & immediately presume to look at the negatives.

Too many fans, forgetting the growth & development of a lot of our signings into the squad...

Tielemans because of his price Tag we expected immediate gains( and got them).

We are not Arsenal or Manutd who buy & expect immediate returns on their main media buys.Though they also take on others knowing they the player needs time before he even sees first team football.

In the Recent past, we had because of our situation players, who found themselves thrown into the ring...

 

Ndidi, considered a too early gamble

Mendy(rekindled his career after injury) Cags ( Maguire)

Justin,Thomas pushed in on emergency selection...

Soumare & Daka,were from the beginning not seen as immediate replacements..Daka's integration was also quicker & more successfull as expected...Soumare had a fair forced introduction, decent first performances, but then struggled later & since,but also off pitch concerns.

Now he's buckled down,wants another crack...Let's see if he has matured enough for the role...

 

[Tielemans63]

Going to take more than a decent 20 minutes against a shocking Forest side to convince me he's the way forward. Still he has an opportunity now. He has to be miles better positionallly for me, says a lot that no-one seems quite sure what his best position is.

[Bourbon Fox]

6 hours ago, The_Rorab said:

I definitely think this shows he has the capability to play some tidy stuff and I hope it continues going forward, but I can't help but notice just how much time on the ball he has in a lot of these clips. There's some good play under pressure a few times as well, but you have to assume most other clubs are gonna press a lot better than Forest did.

Yeah Forest had a semblance of a midfield in the second half, but not much

[sacreblueits442]

56 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

Ok, so we won’t play 433 today with Soumare playing where Ndidi would usually line up with Youri and KDH next/in front of him?

 

I’m sorry but a player who has been here 14 months cannot be classed as new to us either, the fact Rodgers canned him from the match day squad for quite large chunks last season is down to Bouba.

 

Rodgers clearly doesn’t rate Mendy during his time here and was kept out by him, so 🤷🏻‍♂️

...totally marginalised by Rodgers, and now he has to rely on Soumare to play a role!!!

 That is champion man- management right there, he will discard you and then expect you to come back in and play for him,  when you knew he wanted you out the door. That was where he was heading and the biggest surprise in pre-season was that Soumare was staying here.

[Ric Flair]

Do you reckon you will still be alive when Soumare scores his first goal? I'm 39 now and I'm genuinely not sure.

[taupe]

Off topic, I know, but I do like a sentence that starts "I'm sorry but". It sets the tone so well for what you're about to read/hear.

 

Back on topic and I find myself in agreement with fuchsntf, let's give Soumare the chance to see what he can do rather than compare him to others to pick out his faults. No player is the complete package after all.

[sacreblueits442]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Do you reckon you will still be alive when Soumare scores his first goal? I'm 39 now and I'm genuinely not sure.

...Ric you are too focused on what is the norm!!!

 Soumare is not the normal midfielder that either plays like Youri or like KDH. He is very much a Hybrid player, picks it up outside the box and looks to transition either by linking the play or doing it himself and laying it off for a team mate, in a more advantageous position to play that final ball that leads to a goal. We have known this before he came here and it still stands, he doesn't sense danger, because that is not his role, he does not take up positions to cut out passing lanes, that needs to be worked on, as it helps the team to force errors. 

 We cannot be looking for him to be posting assists and scoring goals, he is unique in that respect, expecting him to do the normal stuff will only lead to frustration, for you and everyone else who thinks on those lines.

  For Soumare, he just needs to get more involved in games and do what he is best at, and that is not looking to provide the assists or seeking to score goals.

  I do recall last season in Europe he had a long range shot that hit the post, I believe the post is still rattling right now.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...Ric you are too focused on what is the norm!!!

 Soumare is not the normal midfielder that either plays like Youri or like KDH. He is very much a Hybrid player, picks it up outside the box and looks to transition either by linking the play or doing it himself and laying it off for a team mate, in a more advantageous position to play that final ball that leads to a goal. We have known this before he came here and it still stands, he doesn't sense danger, because that is not his role, he does not take up positions to cut out passing lanes, that needs to be worked on, as it helps the team to force errors. 

 We cannot be looking for him to be posting assists and scoring goals, he is unique in that respect, expecting him to do the normal stuff will only lead to frustration, for you and everyone else who thinks on those lines.

  For Soumare, he just needs to get more involved in games and do what he is best at, and that is not looking to provide the assists or seeking to score goals.

  I do recall last season in Europe he had a long range shot that hit the post, I believe the post is still rattling right now.

He is indeed a hybrid player one that doesn't score or defend well, absolutely sublime. A bit like the evolution of a Panda bear 😂😂😂

[HarryDee8]

I thought he was bought in to be a box to box player, that can score aswell, with his foot and headers? Basically a more offensive ndidi

[Finnegan]

12 hours ago, Bourbon Fox said:

 

 

I like Bouba, I've never quite understood the hostility. But one thing that does stand out watching that is how many times he plays a pass and then stands still when there's a really obvious space for him to move in to. 

 

To be fair to him, the whole team do it. Pass and Move is something we're terrible at at times. I know we'll never be as good as Man City at possession football, I get that they have the best coach and players in the world. But watch them play, watch someone like Foden. Receive the ball, first time pass, move in to space. 

 

We're so fvcking static at times it's painful. Like watching Puelball again. 

[Guest Col city fan]

12 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

He can be everything Wilf is and more because he has a footballers Brain which Wilf doesn't.

 

He new to the league and Country. Now he's begining to show his class and potential.

He just needs to add games and consistancy.

 

I'd love to see him play with Youri and Wilf in a midfield 3.  This would stop teams getting too close to goal.

He isn’t a DM.. Wilf is more defensive minded

Soumare is actually more of a box to box midfielder 

It’s not really appropriate to compare them as like for like 

[Ric Flair]

In all seriousness, Soumare has a certain skillset that if executed properly and is competent in the other basic areas that are essential for a central midfielder to do (tracking the runners of players past you when they attack), cut off passing lanes etc then he'd be a great option for us in certain games. The issues many have is that the things he is good at such as progressing the ball, currently doesn't outweigh the basics he isn't doing or what he won't ever do (create and score) so that's why many view him as a luxury or one who isn't good enough currently.

[Ric Flair]

20 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

He isn’t a DM.. Wilf is more defensive minded

Soumare is actually more of a box to box midfielder 

It’s not really appropriate to compare them as like for like 

Box to box midfielders are competent at defending, tracking runners and going forward they get in the box etc but this is the issue many have with Soumare, he isn't doing well what he is supposedly good at and he's doing badly at the things he's not good at which is a problem.

[Stadt]

He’s not going to start grafting all of a sudden. He’s probably not as bad as he played last season but there’s always excuses made for him.

 

”He’s a young player in a new country”, so are half of our signings. He’s 24 in February!

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

There is a player there. I’m not ready to judge him just yet.