Soumare

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't know about 'emotional' (and leaving aside Soumare for the moment) but  our transfer dealings are critical to a club like ours, we have built  our success on making profits in the transfer market and investing it wisely (for the most part) in new talent.  That's how we managed to challenge the top four. however, we can't afford to sign a dud and just write it off like Man Utd could so if a signing fails it's a big deal.  I guess we're only ever one or two bad windows away from relegation.

 

Personally I can't understand people that shrug when we waste our budget or say "well it's not my money".

Every club of every size signs duds, it is how you move on that matters most.

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Every club of every size signs duds, it is how you move on that matters most.

Yes, that is true, I'm not claiming that it possible to have 100% hit rate.  All I'm saying in answer to op, is that it matters. 

[Vardinio'sCat]

It's a real pity he wasn't ready to make an impact in his best position, which is presumably dmc.

 

This stuff about changing him as a player when we bought him, pushing him further forward, was a bit of a red flag to me. It suggests we had no data on him playing in the position we wanted him to play for us.

[TJB-fox]

2 hours ago, KFS said:

All of this is complete shit, sorry.

 

The original post said that Brendan came to this assessment of Soumare, who he thinks is lazy. No one had said the signing is Brendan’s fault, rather the infrastructure that we had under Pearson was different and looked for different things. That could be Congerton for all you or I know.

 

Bizarre thing to get irate over really.

It’s not, what I’ve said is bang on. Ok, you decided to bring Pearson into this which is a pretty weird thing but whatever. 
Do you genuinely believe the club hasn’t checked out Soumare’s personality, workrate, character etc? 
 

I’m irate because you made a weird comment and I’m terribly bored of BR slander, even if you haven’t meant to do it.  Tell you what, shall we discuss MON’s signings too? There’s no way he would put up with Soumare’s sulking, we should sack Brendan and get him back. 
 

[KFS]

9 minutes ago, TJB-fox said:

It’s not, what I’ve said is bang on. Ok, you decided to bring Pearson into this which is a pretty weird thing but whatever. 
Do you genuinely believe the club hasn’t checked out Soumare’s personality, workrate, character etc? 
 

I’m irate because you made a weird comment and I’m terribly bored of BR slander, even if you haven’t meant to do it.  Tell you what, shall we discuss MON’s signings too? There’s no way he would put up with Soumare’s sulking, we should sack Brendan and get him back. 
 

I’ve literally said none of this. Fair play for backing yourself behind a non-argument with ‘what I’ve said is bang on’. Must be a bank holiday weekend. 
 

If you’ve acknowledged I wasn’t calling out BR and that you’re bored of comments about him, why have YOU brought it up? How can you be bored about something you brought up yourself? 
 

Peak Foxestalk this.

[sacreblueits442]

55 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

It's a real pity he wasn't ready to make an impact in his best position, which is presumably dmc.

 

This stuff about changing him as a player when we bought him, pushing him further forward, was a bit of a red flag to me. It suggests we had no data on him playing in the position we wanted him to play for us.

...KDH usurped his position!!!

People are struggling with what he is and suppose to do. He does what KDH does but is not involved in the last third and is influential in the middle  of the pitch.

 If we are talking about pushing him forward then we are asking him to do what he doesn't do, and we are asking for trouble if we do not play to his strengths. 

 I would probably have a problem with the manager if he chooses to change his game, knowing he has brought him in and has no idea how to utilise his skills.

 Wilf is experiencing this at the moment and it is showing in his games, and the liklihood of him staying here.

Edited 30 April 2022 by sacreblueits442
Spelling error.

[An Sionnach]

Like most of our dodgy speculative buys , Bouba was persuaded to come with the offer of a big contract. What happens when they struggle to adapt to the PL , you get stuck with them. They have got very little chance of anybody offering them a similar contract so they stay and just keep picking up the paycheck. Professional footballers prime directive is money these days and we have to understand that. Money attracts the best players and if you have the best players you have a good chance of winning stuff.

[sacreblueits442]

7 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Like most of our dodgy speculative buys , Bouba was persuaded to come with the offer of a big contract. What happens when they struggle to adapt to the PL , you get stuck with them. They have got very little chance of anybody offering them a similar contract so they stay and just keep picking up the paycheck. Professional footballers prime directive is money these days and we have to understand that. Money attracts the best players and if you have the best players you have a good chance of winning stuff.

...it works both ways in regards to signing a contract!!!

  The club buying the player should be doing due diligence, that would involve weeks if not months of watching and getting independent reports on the player. If that player then turns out to be unsuitable, for what you are looking for, then it is a chance that you take, but if you look to move the goal post as to how you want them to play, then you bring that problem on your own head.

 Hope we could overcome this situation and the real Soumare comes to the fore. I have seen Rodgers argue with Maddison on the pitch and Lookman blanking Rodgers when he is giving instructions on the pitch, these situations seem to get resolved but really should not be happening. 

[TJB-fox]

1 hour ago, KFS said:

I’ve literally said none of this. Fair play for backing yourself behind a non-argument with ‘what I’ve said is bang on’. Must be a bank holiday weekend. 
 

If you’ve acknowledged I wasn’t calling out BR and that you’re bored of comments about him, why have YOU brought it up? How can you be bored about something you brought up yourself? 
 

Peak Foxestalk this.

Donut

[gerblod]

12 hours ago, jamesp26 said:

 

The boot room worked, until it didn't. The modern game needed a different approach. Whilst we all agree that nurturing young talent is a big priority, we will still need to buy developmental players to bolster the squad. Doing so comes with risks though. No club has anything like a 100% recruitment success.  At our level, we are going to have to admit that some will work and some won't. It will be interesting to see what happens with Soumare, and don't always believe a forum rumour. Remember a couple of months back, it was a shoe in that Brendan was getting the sack.

Your first sentence lacks qualification and is therefore meaningless.

It ceased to work because the ethos and continuity became unfashionable - yet it's been the most successful 'system' in English football. Only Ferguson's United (which represented a continuity in itself) has been of the same magnitude of success.

It also ceased because external events had reflected badly on the fans and club and had caused its impetus to falter. 

In what way did the "modern game" as you term it, need a different approach? From much of what I'm reading at this time football in England is seen as needing to clean its act up.

I agree that players will always have to be brought in, and all clubs manage to recruit inappropriate players, even at the 'highest levels' - Coutinho and Griezeman are examples. Yet sometimes it seems that objective assessment is neglected because someone in the club thinks he sees something no one else does.

I saw Soumare and was instantly underwhelmed, yet accepted I wasn't privy to the kind of knowledge that had brought him here. I'm still underwhelmed and it now seems BR is too.

As for your last comments re forum rumour and BR's exit, I don't believe my post mentioned anything to do with either so I'll leave that stone unturned.

 

 

 

[Dan LCFC]

One mistake a lot make is thinking keeping a player for ages waiting for them to come good. Daka for me is different. He has struggled but he has demonstrated some ability at this level. He deserves persisting with. What has anyone seen from Soumare to decide he's worth sticking with? He's been piss poor in 80% of games he's played in.

 

If we can sell and get a decent amount of our money back we should do it. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Cash while you can.

[foxinsocks]

8 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

One season in at 22/23 years old... 

I agree... first the EPL is a very different league... second it is important that players work hard to fit into the side 

[fleckneymike]

He’s been bought to offer us a different option / style in midfield. He was bought as one who would gradually get game time and adapt. He’s clearly struggled in games and had the misfortune to join us in a season where defensively we’ve been an utter shambles for 3/4 of the season and that understandably won’t help any integration. 
 

He may have to be sold this summer if we don’t want to risk his value drop whilst  seeing if he will adapt. He’s still highly rated amongst similar sized clubs so moving him on permanently or on loan shouldn’t be difficult. 

[murphy]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

One mistake a lot make is thinking keeping a player for ages waiting for them to come good. Daka for me is different. He has struggled but he has demonstrated some ability at this level. He deserves persisting with. What has anyone seen from Soumare to decide he's worth sticking with? He's been piss poor in 80% of games he's played in.

 

If we can sell and get a decent amount of our money back we should do it. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Cash while you can.

I agree with this.  The Vardy example is often trotted out to demonstrate that a silk purse can be made from any sow's ear just so long as we are patient and give it time.  In my opinion, most players that make it hit the ground running, even young players like Wilf, Tielemans, Fofana etc.  For every Vardy there is a Musa/Inler/Ghezzal/Perez etc etc.

 

I think in Soumare's case we will be forced to be patient because I don't think we have any realistic chance of getting our money back, but I would take it in a heartbeat if it were offered.  He's a player that looks laboured and out of sorts.  I haven't seen anything to base any optimism upon. 

[sacreblueits442]

5 minutes ago, murphy said:

I think in Soumare's case we will be forced to be patient because I don't think we have any realistic chance of getting our money back, but I would take it in a heartbeat if it were offered.  He's a player that looks laboured and out of sorts.  I haven't seen anything to base any optimism upon. 

....what we have witnessed from his output this season defies belief, that such an accomplished player can perform in this way!!!

  A whole season at Lille winning the league in the engine room does not produce a player who cannot turn out in one consistent game.

  His availability, especially back in France will allow us to recoup our outlay, but that will be little comfort, unless we can bring in an adequate replacement. 

[Chelmofox]

9 hours ago, gerblod said:

Your first sentence lacks qualification and is therefore meaningless.

It ceased to work because the ethos and continuity became unfashionable - yet it's been the most successful 'system' in English football. Only Ferguson's United (which represented a continuity in itself) has been of the same magnitude of success.

It also ceased because external events had reflected badly on the fans and club and had caused its impetus to falter. 

In what way did the "modern game" as you term it, need a different approach? From much of what I'm reading at this time football in England is seen as needing to clean its act up.

I agree that players will always have to be brought in, and all clubs manage to recruit inappropriate players, even at the 'highest levels' - Coutinho and Griezeman are examples. Yet sometimes it seems that objective assessment is neglected because someone in the club thinks he sees something no one else does.

I saw Soumare and was instantly underwhelmed, yet accepted I wasn't privy to the kind of knowledge that had brought him here. I'm still underwhelmed and it now seems BR is too.

As for your last comments re forum rumour and BR's exit, I don't believe my post mentioned anything to do with either so I'll leave that stone unturned.

Your reference to the boot room was around Liverpool creating a culture for management and transfers. It's only my opinion, but the success of the boot room is skewed by the significant length of 2 legendary managers (Shankley and Pasily). Like Ferguson, if the success is attributed to those individuals, then is the overall system a success?, or were the individuals so good they just transcended everything? With Ferguson, we saw the wheels spectacularly come off once he left so there was no long lasting system there, and we saw Liverpool drift once the boot room ran dry (i remember the fuss about the Houllier appointment, and how to begin with they paired him with Evans, the last man standing from the boot room).

 

Anyhow, it was a system for a different era. Leicester are trying to build their identity and i think we have some amazing academy prospects coming through, but they won't all hit their peak at the same time, nor are all guaranteed to make their mark at the highest level. Therefore, we also need to dip our toe in the transfer market with players who have had first team football, but aren't the finished prospects. I don't think the identity of our club is to be buying £50 million premier league superstars, so some of our signings are going to come with development and risk. I strongly feel Daka will come good, but Soumaré has disappointed me. However, i appreciate it could take longer with him.

 

With my last comment, i know you didn't mention BR's rumoured exit. My point was merely that this whole debate has been sparked by a single forum post which at this point is no more than unsubstantiated rumour.  We had a similar debate earlier in the season about the 'imminent' departure of Rodgers. Assuming there is no smoke without fire, what ever happened there got resolved so its possible whatever has happened here could possibly get resolved. 

 

We shall see if Soumaré starts today and take it from there  

 

 

Edited 1 May 2022 by jamesp26

[Dan LCFC]

2 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

One season in at 22/23 years old... 

Totally missed the point. If you were offered your money back on him, would you not take it? 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Intrigued to see how he gets on next to mendy, it's how he played in France.

[Tanya]

I like to give players time. I'm a very vocal advocate of Daka, who I think has oodles of potential. When it comes to this guy, though, I just don't see what he ads to the team. He makes simple passes but not in an efficient way like Mendy, he progress us up the field like KDH, he can't create like Madders and he can't screen and track runners like Wilf. What is the point? He's also seems very lazy and completely out of his depth.

 

But I do have a bias. I want him to work out, but I must admit, I'm basically the definition of this Gordon Ramsay meme right now

 

 

[Incognito]

Have to say, I thought Soumare had his best game for us today since Spartak Moscow away.

Hope he can now kick on and show the player he was for Lille.

[Jabfox]

15 minutes ago, Incognito said:

Have to say, I thought Soumare had his best game for us today since Spartak Moscow away.

Hope he can now kick on and show the player he was for Lille.

Didn’t manage to find a stream today and was keen to watch to see how he played, I guess that’s a tiny positive to take hearing soumare played well 🤣

[Incognito]

12 minutes ago, Jabfox said:

Didn’t manage to find a stream today and was keen to watch to see how he played, I guess that’s a tiny positive to take hearing soumare played well 🤣

Yep. About as good as it was going to get tbf. All eyes on Thursday now.

[Mark]

29 minutes ago, Incognito said:

Have to say, I thought Soumare had his best game for us today since Spartak Moscow away.

Hope he can now kick on and show the player he was for Lille.

Decent run down the right first half but much the same apart from that, still thinks he's got more time than he has on the ball.

[tsintskaro]

He had one good run in whole game and besides that absolute donkey

It will be hard to get rid of him

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, tsintskaro said:

He had one good run in whole game and besides that absolute donkey

It will be hard to get rid of him

Behave. He was ok today, better than previous showings.